StudentOfWarCustoms
Member
"When the sword of rebellion is drawn, the sheath should be thrown away"- English proverb
Posts: 64
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Post by StudentOfWarCustoms on Mar 9, 2022 22:58:39 GMT
When I used to teach writing, on the first night of class I would tell students that we're here to talk about craft, because there are objective, concrete criteria for craft, and learning & comparing them improves your craft -- even if you decide to disregard some of them. You can argue about Art till the cows come home, but capable craftsmanship is there or it ain't. "I don't like it" is a perfectly valid opinion, but it has nothing to do with a thing's quality. I don't like licorice. But if I insist that licorice is bad, my opinion is completely weightless unless somehow I show you where licorice falls short on standards of craft, quality, detail, etc. By the same token, saying "I like it" is nice, but ultimately unhelpful, since it doesn't say why I like it. What's good about it, where's the display of craft, attention, detail, unique expression? Craft and critical thinking have this in common. Just saying that something is incredible, or that it sucks, without saying why that's so, gives no assurance that you're qualified to make either statement. Some people have used criticism of Adam to point out details that constitute quality tsuka-maki. Adam has pointed out options he tries to bring to the table. I've enjoyed those posts, and learned from them.
FWIW.
Thanks. I'm always open to criticism that is actual listing what is wrong, but personal attacks don't help anyone. Some of the attacks being based on personal preference like you said. Nothing wrong with someone who likes a sword as traditional looking as possible but there's also nothing wrong with someone like me who likes to add a modern twist to a sword. For example I'd love to put together a 7 deadly sins sword based on Dante Alighieri's "Divine Comedy", not traditional but if done well I think it would be cool. Or even a sword based on "the Raven" and "Mask of the Red Death" by Edgar Allan Poe, again not traditional but I think it would be neat. By the way your saya finishes look awesome! But to suggest licorice is bad is an unforgivable offense! Lol
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Post by treeslicer on Mar 10, 2022 0:07:49 GMT
..........I don't like licorice................. ..........But to suggest licorice is bad is an unforgivable offense! Lol Not if it's been flavored with reindeer piss, but several million people seem to like it that way. ![(rofl)](//storage.forums.net/forum/images/smiley/rofl.png) There's no accounting for taste.
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StudentOfWarCustoms
Member
"When the sword of rebellion is drawn, the sheath should be thrown away"- English proverb
Posts: 64
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Post by StudentOfWarCustoms on Mar 10, 2022 0:11:13 GMT
..........But to suggest licorice is bad is an unforgivable offense! Lol Not if it's been flavored with reindeer piss, but several million people seem to like it that way. ![(rofl)](//storage.forums.net/forum/images/smiley/rofl.png) There's no accounting for taste. BLASPHEMY!!! HERETIC!!! Lol Seriously though if you ever get to try Australian licorice definitely do, it's my absolute favorite. It's also known as kookaburra licorice and comes in both red and black, the red one is really good.
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Post by treeslicer on Mar 10, 2022 3:00:33 GMT
Not if it's been flavored with reindeer piss, but several million people seem to like it that way. ![(rofl)](//storage.forums.net/forum/images/smiley/rofl.png) There's no accounting for taste. BLASPHEMY!!! HERETIC!!! Lol Seriously though if you ever get to try Australian licorice definitely do, it's my absolute favorite. It's also known as kookaburra licorice and comes in both red and black, the red one is really good. I've had it, and it's GOOD. My comment was spun at our many Finnish members. They flavor their version, called "salmiakki", with ammonium chloride. It's something of an acquired taste.
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StudentOfWarCustoms
Member
"When the sword of rebellion is drawn, the sheath should be thrown away"- English proverb
Posts: 64
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Post by StudentOfWarCustoms on Mar 10, 2022 3:03:18 GMT
BLASPHEMY!!! HERETIC!!! Lol Seriously though if you ever get to try Australian licorice definitely do, it's my absolute favorite. It's also known as kookaburra licorice and comes in both red and black, the red one is really good. I've had it, and it's GOOD. My comment was spun at our many Finnish members. They flavor their version, called "salmiakki", with ammonium chloride. It's something of an acquired taste. O jeez lol sounds like a science experiment
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Post by JH Lee on Mar 10, 2022 4:48:06 GMT
A long time ago, back in the heyday of SFI, there was a talented craftsman named Henry Ahmu. He was a friend. He passed away some years ago. He also added various modern twists to his work (such as using string in place of rayskin). I mention that because I really don't think your use of epoxy is the issue here (at least, not for me).
A tsuka whose kashira and fuchi are not flush/in line with the tsuka and maki assembly is going to irritate the user's hands during suburi. Is it intolerable? No. But attention to such detail will help you to improve your work and also your reputation. Personally, as a long-time JSA student myself, I would not bring such a sword into the dojo.
The even-ness of the diamonds of the tsukamaki is not only aesthetically pleasing, it is also a visual indication of the even-ness of pressure. That was explained to me by another craftsman/togi who passed away-- Keith Larman, another friend and a true master who is sorely missed. Yes, a full samegawa can be a helpful insurance against catastrophic failure. But many (most?) tsuka traditionally just had panels. The tsukamaki keeps the tsuka assembly together and maintains appropriate and even pressure against the nakago; not the glue.
Can epoxy serve as a substitute in keeping things secure? Probably? Maybe? I don't know. Most likely, a tsuka whose maki diamonds are all over the place is still well within tolerances as long as the ito has been pulled tightly and the tsuka core carved and fitted properly, etc. I won't exaggerate to say that anything less than perfect is necessarily fragile. My point is just that form follows function when it comes to the construction of these swords.
Let us also not forget that modern JSA does pay attention to the details of appearance and tradition. Why use the long hakama strings with their complicated knots, for example, when velcro and zipper might do? I have nothing against modern substitutes, but I also don't believe in fixing something that isn't broken. Perhaps rather than being content with "good enough," it may help elevate your art for you to practice more to the point where even relatively weak rice glue is more than sufficient to keep your end knots secure.
I hope the above gives something to consider, Adam. My intent is to encourage you to pay closer attention to the little details so that your level of craftsmanship will eventually match your enthusiasm. I am admittedly rather snobby and choosy about who works on any of my swords. But if that day ever does come, I would be happy to try out your services. For now, I hope you will take even the negative and harsh feedback, with humility and a thick skin, and use them as fuel to inspire greater commitment toward achieving excellence.
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Post by MichaelRS on Mar 10, 2022 5:52:08 GMT
Been following this...discussion a bit and find it interesting.
It's also not unreasonable to think that some of the more harsh criticism could be motivated by competitors and/or by people having the need to feel better for spending whatever THEY spent to have the work done.
Other than that I liken some of the attitudes to; If you are not using choji oil to protect your blade, then you are wrong and that's all there is to it.
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StudentOfWarCustoms
Member
"When the sword of rebellion is drawn, the sheath should be thrown away"- English proverb
Posts: 64
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Post by StudentOfWarCustoms on Mar 10, 2022 7:12:30 GMT
A long time ago, back in the heyday of SFI, there was a talented craftsman named Henry Ahmu. He was a friend. He passed away some years ago. He also added various modern twists to his work (such as using string in place of rayskin). I mention that because I really don't think your use of epoxy is the issue here (at least, not for me). A tsuka whose kashira and fuchi are not flush/in line with the tsuka and maki assembly is going to irritate the user's hands during suburi. Is it intolerable? No. But attention to such detail will help you to improve your work and also your reputation. Personally, as a long-time JSA student myself, I would not bring such a sword into the dojo. The even-ness of the diamonds of the tsukamaki is not only aesthetically pleasing, it is also a visual indication of the even-ness of pressure. That was explained to me by another craftsman/togi who passed away-- Keith Larman, another friend and a true master who is sorely missed. Yes, a full samegawa can be a helpful insurance against catastrophic failure. But many (most?) tsuka traditionally just had panels. The tsukamaki keeps the tsuka assembly together and maintains appropriate and even pressure against the nakago; not the glue. Can epoxy serve as a substitute in keeping things secure? Probably? Maybe? I don't know. Most likely, a tsuka whose maki diamonds are all over the place is still well within tolerances as long as the ito has been pulled tightly and the tsuka core carved and fitted properly, etc. I won't exaggerate to say that anything less than perfect is necessarily fragile. My point is just that form follows function when it comes to the construction of these swords. Let us also not forget that modern JSA does pay attention to the details of appearance and tradition. Why use the long hakama strings with their complicated knots, for example, when velcro and zipper might do? I have nothing against modern substitutes, but I also don't believe in fixing something that isn't broken. Perhaps rather than being content with "good enough," it may help elevate your art for you to practice more to the point where even relatively weak rice glue is more than sufficient to keep your end knots secure. I hope the above gives something to consider, Adam. My intent is to encourage you to pay closer attention to the little details so that your level of craftsmanship will eventually match your enthusiasm. I am admittedly rather snobby and choosy about who works on any of my swords. But if that day ever does come, I would be happy to try out your services. For now, I hope you will take even the negative and harsh feedback, with humility and a thick skin, and use them as fuel to inspire greater commitment toward achieving excellence. I'm glad the epoxy isn't a problem for you, for others in this post it absolutely has been because I've been told as much. I've never used epoxy in a place that traditional glue wouldn't be used. That idea with the string instead of samegawa is cool, I might have to try that some day. Right. One right I'm going to try doing about the diamonds is using a straight edge as I go along. I have astigmatism in my dominant eye which doesn't help when a diamond is off, sometimes things look straight when they aren't. Then again truth be told I have trouble reading an analog clock across the room at times. But anyways so that's my idea I'm going to be trying out. Thanks for the feedback.
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Post by Stef on Mar 10, 2022 7:15:21 GMT
This has been tried but he isn't interested in improving his craft, nor does he take advice well or constructive criticism. I fear he is only interested in doing what he does how he does it and sees nothing wrong with it. But I do wholeheartedly understand your point, and it is a fair point. just know many have tried I don't think you realize how wrong you are honestly and I'm not saying this to be aggressive at all. You judge me from when I have numerous people attack and insult my work and that's what you base me off of. Maybe I'm wrong but I think you believe the traditional way is the only way and the golden standard performance wise. Don't get me wrong certain things should never be changed from the traditional method (such as when working on a nihonto or carving the interior of a tsuka) but epoxy vs rice glue for example I don't think there is a single issue using epoxy on end knots and it's undeniable that epoxy is far supior to rice glue and more than likely if craftsmen of old had access to modern glues for example they more than likely would have used that over making glue out of rice. What I do I base off of over a decade worth of formal study of Japanese swordsmanship and actually using swords in class for over an hour at a time. When I make a decision on something I'm doing to a sword it's based of of that, not "hmm, I wonder how I can screw this up or get attention from people online.". Hope this cleared things up but if not let me ask you something, how do you expect me to be open to what you have to say when every time you and your friends get a chance you attack or make cheap shots at my work? Do you really expect someone to be open to constructive criticism from people who behave that way? I remember you postings your work on FB and receiving advise such as don't use epoxy, try keeping your diamonds even, your transitions are not smoot and so on and your reply went along the way of "my work of for function and there is nothing wrong with it you are just being snob" more or les this is not a direct quote. So for constructive criticism sake let's unwrap. I hope you push yourself to get better and better and become an accomplished tsukamakishi. Stop using epox because once it's set any further work on the tsuka, be it for upgrade or a change of look will be stupidy difficult and the epoxy will ruin the samegawa, wood and if it hardens on the Ito, your hands too. Make your transitions smooth and take pride and pit effort in doing so, it is pleasing to hold a tsuka with no bumps or ledges. It's also pleasing to the eyes. Terminate your end knots correctly this will hold your tsukamaki together it's very beautiful to see. Get your tsuka shape down to a size the will allow you to make smooth transitions. It doesn't need to be Japanese thin particularly for big people with huge hands. But it should be shaped correctly. There are people that will give advice on all this and how to do it if they see you putting effort in to this.anf taking it seriously. You don't need to become the next Thomas Buck. I wish you luck and success but if you are gonna keep doing exactly what you do with no effort on improving and a I'm just gonna do it this way attitude then do not be surprised when you get sarcastic remarks people have been seeing your work for years and it's the same. A note on modern materials, they are cool in my opinion but you need to learn to play classic guitar before you play electric, so to understand the correct way to do things and develop from there. Good luck Adam
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StudentOfWarCustoms
Member
"When the sword of rebellion is drawn, the sheath should be thrown away"- English proverb
Posts: 64
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Post by StudentOfWarCustoms on Mar 10, 2022 7:21:16 GMT
Been following this...discussion a bit and find it interesting. It's also not unreasonable to think that some of the more harsh criticism could be motivated by competitors and/or by people having the need to feel better for spending whatever THEY spent to have the work done. Other than that I liken some of the attitudes to; If you are not using choji oil to protect your blade, then you are wrong and that's all there is to it. Agreed. Don't get me wrong I'm not flawless but I know for a matter of fact some of it is just traditionalism because I was told as much on Facebook. The performance doesn't matter in that case, what matters is it's not traditional and that's it. Never mind that fact that they're non-Japanese who own Chinese made swords made of modern steel some of which study a martial arts and some of which just like cutting bottles in the back yard. Nothing against any of that but if tradition is the #1 concern than I expect to see some consistency and not just cherry picking.
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steveboy
Member
Measure twice, cut once.
Posts: 372
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Post by steveboy on Mar 10, 2022 8:09:47 GMT
This x 1000. The more I learn about Japanese swords, the more I understand about how the utility and the esthetic are inextricably linked. I find them an incredible intersection of art and engineering.
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steveboy
Member
Measure twice, cut once.
Posts: 372
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Post by steveboy on Mar 10, 2022 8:28:26 GMT
Been following this...discussion a bit and find it interesting. It's also not unreasonable to think that some of the more harsh criticism could be motivated by competitors and/or by people having the need to feel better for spending whatever THEY spent to have the work done. Other than that I liken some of the attitudes to; If you are not using choji oil to protect your blade, then you are wrong and that's all there is to it. Agreed. Don't get me wrong I'm not flawless but I know for a matter of fact some of it is just traditionalism because I was told as much on Facebook. The performance doesn't matter in that case, what matters is it's not traditional and that's it. Never mind that fact that they're non-Japanese who own Chinese made swords made of modern steel some of which study a martial arts and some of which just like cutting bottles in the back yard. Nothing against any of that but if tradition is the #1 concern than I expect to see some consistency and not just cherry picking. It's clear that this isn't about right & wrong so much as a difference in priorities. Adam's approach seems much more about utility. I've seen a lot of his YouTube vids well before this, and they corroborate this outlook -- and for that very reason I've found them useful, as he has some very useful tips & tricks for those who don't have the resources or funds (or sometimes just time) for high-end solutions.
And even though I don't share his priorities, that doesn't mean he's wrong. FWIW, though, I absolutely agree with JH Lee that it's important to learn technique even if you decide to discard it. There's still both an esthetic and an understanding of the technique's function operating. It's like understanding of what notes not to play, what colors not to use. Or even what rules to break. Deciding not to employ them is very different from not knowing them. A Charlie Parker solo may sound like noise, or a Jackson Pollock painting may look like a mess, but I guarantee that someone's untrained noise or mess will display none of the structure, composition, intent, and function theirs does, and won't be as effective. So (in my view) it's worth learning the elements of a craft you practice.
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StudentOfWarCustoms
Member
"When the sword of rebellion is drawn, the sheath should be thrown away"- English proverb
Posts: 64
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Post by StudentOfWarCustoms on Mar 10, 2022 9:10:27 GMT
I don't think you realize how wrong you are honestly and I'm not saying this to be aggressive at all. You judge me from when I have numerous people attack and insult my work and that's what you base me off of. Maybe I'm wrong but I think you believe the traditional way is the only way and the golden standard performance wise. Don't get me wrong certain things should never be changed from the traditional method (such as when working on a nihonto or carving the interior of a tsuka) but epoxy vs rice glue for example I don't think there is a single issue using epoxy on end knots and it's undeniable that epoxy is far supior to rice glue and more than likely if craftsmen of old had access to modern glues for example they more than likely would have used that over making glue out of rice. What I do I base off of over a decade worth of formal study of Japanese swordsmanship and actually using swords in class for over an hour at a time. When I make a decision on something I'm doing to a sword it's based of of that, not "hmm, I wonder how I can screw this up or get attention from people online.". Hope this cleared things up but if not let me ask you something, how do you expect me to be open to what you have to say when every time you and your friends get a chance you attack or make cheap shots at my work? Do you really expect someone to be open to constructive criticism from people who behave that way? I remember you postings your work on FB and receiving advise such as don't use epoxy, try keeping your diamonds even, your transitions are not smoot and so on and your reply went along the way of "my work of for function and there is nothing wrong with it you are just being snob" more or les this is not a direct quote. So for constructive criticism sake let's unwrap. I hope you push yourself to get better and better and become an accomplished tsukamakishi. Stop using epox because once it's set any further work on the tsuka, be it for upgrade or a change of look will be stupidy difficult and the epoxy will ruin the samegawa, wood and if it hardens on the Ito, your hands too. Make your transitions smooth and take pride and pit effort in doing so, it is pleasing to hold a tsuka with no bumps or ledges. It's also pleasing to the eyes. Terminate your end knots correctly this will hold your tsukamaki together it's very beautiful to see. Get your tsuka shape down to a size the will allow you to make smooth transitions. It doesn't need to be Japanese thin particularly for big people with huge hands. But it should be shaped correctly. There are people that will give advice on all this and how to do it if they see you putting effort in to this.anf taking it seriously. You don't need to become the next Thomas Buck. I wish you luck and success but if you are gonna keep doing exactly what you do with no effort on improving and a I'm just gonna do it this way attitude then do not be surprised when you get sarcastic remarks people have been seeing your work for years and it's the same. A note on modern materials, they are cool in my opinion but you need to learn to play classic guitar before you play electric, so to understand the correct way to do things and develop from there. Good luck Adam Don't mean to argue but no, there was no constructive criticism it was all insults. Any "help" you gave was vague at best just like now in some regards "Terminate your end knots correctly this will hold your tsukamaki together it's very beautiful to see" you're not telling me what is wrong with my knots and this was the problem before. I'll consider moving away from epoxy, Walter Sorrels recommends epoxy so I'll probably stick with it. Haven't had any problems with it. Ok, I'll work on transitions. Thanks. Well "sarcastic remarks" from someone else who works on swords as well isn't acceptable dude, that kind of toxic behavior is why I generally don't frequent forums. I'll keep that in mind. Thanks.
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tera
Moderator
Posts: 1,715
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Post by tera on Mar 10, 2022 17:01:55 GMT
Gentlemen,
Please remember Rule #4 from our community guidelines. Treat each other with respect. This is not the first thread in which discussion of tsukamaki methods has become uncivil, but with your help it can be the last.
If you have constructive criticism to share, please do so respectfully, even if it is provided via PM.
Let's return to treating each other as members of the same community, united by shared interests. Further posts in violation of the rules may result in formal actions.
Also, should someone make a poor life choice and post provocatively, please report their post instead of responding in kind, as per our forum rules.
-Tera
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Post by bradc on Mar 10, 2022 18:36:46 GMT
I don't quite understand the benefit of strong adhesives on an end knot? Especially ones that lack flexibility. Are some ito more slippery and need additional adhesion? When I shortened my Iaito many hundreds of hours ago I used only a tiny amount of Elmer's at a few key points and it remains tight. Considering the ito has gotten wet, I'm not even convinced the glue added much support. I should add It was incredibly difficult to get the ito to pass under itself so the friction alone must be offering substantial reinforcement. Perhaps traditional silk ito just doesn't slip as easily as other materials? Debates on tuskamaki aside... More importantly Salmiak Liquorice delicious ![;)](//storage.forums.net/forum/images/smiley/wink.png) I have some in my desk right now.
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Post by Shinken Studio on Mar 10, 2022 18:51:34 GMT
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Post by Drunk Merchant on Mar 10, 2022 19:15:45 GMT
I wonder if Urushi would be far preferable to epoxy. Japan used it both to reinforce ito, and to protect leather ito. So I figure if they like it it can’t be all that bad.
As for tsukamaki, I would NEVER try to do it since I’m unfit for that but I will admit to using leather grafts and urushi to stabilize leather ito from the war that were falling apart. I don’t feel too guilty about that since leather grafts+urushi is what samurai would have done to field repair such things in the sengoku, and the Shoi who owned it would have done the same if he were alive and had urushi.
Looks indistinguishable amazingly enough. Only downside is that fresh urushi fluoresces under a black light and will take several years to stop glowing. So that’s my secret for spotting repair work.
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Post by Stef on Mar 10, 2022 20:30:46 GMT
A good alternative to glue of any kind is kosune. Cottontail custom has an easy tutorial I think. The information is out there for those who want to lear and improve. You wanna use epoxy go ahead. it's not about traditionalist crap I like modern made stuff. I don't mind different materials. Do you forget I have a shop selling 3D tsuba and parts. But I put effort in making them correctly in shape and size and function. I don't mind a different alternative to samegawa as long as it's done nicely, I don't mind a Ito made of a different materials along as it's done well and the tsukamaki is done well.
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steveboy
Member
Measure twice, cut once.
Posts: 372
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Post by steveboy on Mar 10, 2022 21:25:42 GMT
A good alternative to glue of any kind is kosune. Cottontail custom has an easy tutorial I think. The information is out there for those who want to lear and improve. You wanna use epoxy go ahead. it's not about traditionalist crap I like modern made stuff. I don't mind different materials. Do you forget I have a shop selling 3D tsuba and parts. But I put effort in making them correctly in shape and size and function. I don't mind a different alternative to samegawa as long as it's done nicely, I don't mind a Ito made of a different materials along as it's done well and the tsukamaki is done well. Can you point me to a source for kusune, or instructions on making it? I've tried combining rapeseed oil & pine resin at different proportions, and mostly I end up with a lollipop that doesn't wipe its stickiness onto the ito very well. I've googled & searched Youtube and can't really find a how-to. I think it's a Masonic Illuminati secret, or something.
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Post by JH Lee on Mar 10, 2022 21:26:46 GMT
Just browsed through your site. I really like some of the color schemes and end results. Thank you for sharing. I have to admit being a bit hesitant about shipping to and from Croatia to the US though....
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