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Post by Adrian Jordan on Oct 22, 2019 23:10:25 GMT
Seeing as how it's come up a couple of times recently I thought I'd make a post on things to watch out for.
Watch out for:
*Brand new member with sword type that has been recently discussed as wanted, especially a high end one. *Brand new member offering items at prices that are too good to be true. *Seller that asks for payment method that has no buyer protection.
*Seller that can't or won't provide proof of ownership/possession.
Keep in mind:
*The forum is not responsible for a bad sale through the Classifieds. They are private transactions between members, thus we have no power over them.
*PayPal Goods and Services may cost either the buyer or seller some extra money, but you are more protected from a scammer. Only use Friends and Family with members you have a lot of trust in and/or experience with.
*Since a scammer can just copy/paste images of said item and claim that they are theirs, don't be bashful when it comes to asking for proof. A picture of the item with a note displaying an agreed on statement/name/date for example.
*A member with a high post count or long tenure is not a 100% guarantee of a safe transaction, but they are less likely to still be around if they had a history of dishonest sales practices.
*If approached with an offer along the lines of "I know a guy who has this/can hook you up with this" and the "guy" is not a member of the forum, known to the sword community or a store, it would be much safer to avoid that offer.
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stormmaster
Member
I like viking/migration era swords
Posts: 7,714
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Post by stormmaster on Oct 22, 2019 23:12:14 GMT
yeah a picture with a piece of paper of forum username put on top of the sword takes like 30 seconds to do, if someone is unwilling thats a problem, unless they dont have the sword in hand i guess
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Post by vorpal on Oct 22, 2019 23:14:53 GMT
yeah a picture with a piece of paper of forum username put on top of the sword takes like 30 seconds to do, if someone is unwilling thats a problem, unless they dont have the sword in hand i guess This idea gets my vote |
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Post by Eric Bergeron on Oct 23, 2019 1:46:12 GMT
I agree 100% with what is being said, I always offer both options for my sales. And I love that new option Storm about the paper with username and like you say only takes 30 seconds, if they can't bother to do that, they probably don't have the sword/item.
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Post by rannh1 on Oct 23, 2019 3:20:44 GMT
yeah a picture with a piece of paper of forum username put on top of the sword takes like 30 seconds to do, if someone is unwilling thats a problem, unless they dont have the sword in hand i guess This is good, could also ask to make it a timestamp photo (a name could be photoshopped by someone unscrupulous) because a timestamp is harder to fake. Additionally, if the timestamp is from a certain time, and the person says they are shopping from x location, it's an easy fix to check if the time is more or less similar. While none of these ideas actively prevent someone from scamming, they are checks and balances. I know when I bought swords from here and myarmoury, I always checked the membership dates of the members etc etc. I can compile a list of certain things to be watchful for (if it would help in any way) |
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Post by aeri on Oct 23, 2019 5:27:26 GMT
*Since a scammer can just copy/paste images of said item and claim that they are theirs, don't be bashful when it comes to asking for proof. A picture of the item with a note displaying an agreed on statement/name/date for example.
This is a great suggestion. I like the idea of requiring the note in the photo to include a statement, name, *and* date. A note that only includes a name removes some of the low-hanging fruit, but there is still the possibility of a scammer masquerading as the legitimate seller on a different site. With that last point in mind, if a seller tries to convince you to make a purchase by claiming to have a good reputation on a different site then I would recommend contacting the high-reputation account on the other site directly to confirm whether it is in fact the same person. |
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Post by Jordan Williams on Oct 23, 2019 6:13:56 GMT
For new users yeah but I barely have time to post anymore, much less take a new set of photos just for the forums. I doubt others do as well.
Good for extra insurance but I don't think it should be a set rule.
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Post by rannh1 on Oct 23, 2019 6:50:25 GMT
Another thing to do that might be useful and has helped me to find a scammer in the past was, Google the email address provided for PayPal. Fi they have issues on other forums it is a way of gleaning the particulars.
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Post by aeri on Oct 23, 2019 7:01:12 GMT
For new users yeah but I barely have time to post anymore, much less take a new set of photos just for the forums. I doubt others do as well. Good for extra insurance but I don't think it should be a set rule. Agreed that it should not be a mandatory enforced rule. Discretion should be left up to the buyer since that is the person who ultimately assumes the risk*. Sellers are also free to decline any such requests if they do not think it is worth their time -- with the trade-off of potentially having to find another buyer. Other factors would also come into play when deciding whether to confirm that the seller is in actual possession of the item, like the seller having an established transaction history, overall price of the item, method of payment, etc. *I know that there are risks for sellers too. In many cases they have the ability to decrease and/or mitigate those risks by adding insurance, obtaining a tracking number, requiring a signature on delivery, etc. |
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Post by Adrian Jordan on Nov 5, 2019 20:08:43 GMT
So we've had even more popping up. We've decided to update the rules. From today, 11/5/2019, sellers will need to provide photographs of any item for sale in the sale thread. This is already a rule, but not one that's been strictly enforced. They will also need to have a note in the photo showing their username and the current date. Honestly, if it's too much of a hassle to take 10 or 20 seconds to write that out on a piece of paper and put it next to the sword or whatever when you're taking the pictures then I don't know what to tell you. Again, this is for posts on and after the date of 11/5/2019. If you've got a post before then you do not need to include the note of you don't want to, though it'd be appreciated and provide confidence to potential buyers.
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Post by bendepuydt on Dec 2, 2020 13:23:37 GMT
Hello,
is there a general or best practice concerning the insurance of a shipped sword? Who pays for it, seller or buyer?
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Post by LG Martial Arts on Dec 2, 2020 15:02:26 GMT
Hello, is there a general or best practice concerning the insurance of a shipped sword? Who pays for it, seller or buyer? If it’s from a store, more than likely there won’t be any insurance unless the purchaser requests and pays for it. If it’s from a “regular” person, that’s usually part of the “deal” and as such, should be reflected on shipping charges. And just to be fair for “regular” sellers/buyers, insurance (while it does give people peace of mind) usually aren’t fully paid in a loss UNLESS you can actually prove the worth of the item with a store receipt. If it’s a used item from one person to another, it’s almost impossible to get the full amount of the insurance because there’s no way to prove to the shipping company that the item really is worth what it was insured for. |
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Post by pellius on Dec 2, 2020 20:34:31 GMT
I have seen numerous, but anecdotal, complaints that USPS will not honor any insurance claim for a weapon, which includes knives and swords. Thankfully, I cannot personally confirm.
PayPal is, in my recent personal experience, moving to explicitly refuse to complete any transaction that includes a weapon, including knives and swords. I would conclude (but have not confirmed) that this is a reliable sign they will not help you in a sword/knife transaction that goes south.
For me, personally, shipping insurance is a pointless/worthless expense. Long-standing seller reputation is the most important thing to me when buying.
I’ve bought swords and knives from new members and folks I only recently met over the internet, but I view such purchases essentially as a gamble (the only type of gambling I ever engage in). I’ve been singed a couple of times, but thankfully haven’t really been burned yet.
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Post by fester on Dec 3, 2020 20:09:13 GMT
In most jurisdictions in the United States at least technically the seller is responsible for the loss of the item and refunding
the buyer. It is the seller who is supposed to buy insurance on an item if there is a potential for it to be lost.
I had not heard that paypal was going to stop (at least if it is known) the transactions of swords or knifes.
If so it is a shame and maybe this forum can find an alternative for sword/knife transactions.
paypal is really becoming an anti-freedom site in a lot of ways.
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Post by RickDastardly on Dec 4, 2020 19:36:11 GMT
I've just read on my knife forum that Moonraker knives (a well known company here) has had their paypal account frozen because PP are shutting down tobacco and knife related companies' accounts.
I would watch their terms for buyer protection very carefully. At the moment (I just checked) PP will refuse protection for sales involving knives that are "regulated by law" (doesn't say which jurisdiction!) but that could change for the worse, and I've no idea if they consider swords to be knives, weapons, collectibles...
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Post by Lord Newport on Jan 15, 2021 18:01:48 GMT
Sellers should make sure they have received a payment that requires the buyer provide ID to the sending entity and that can not be "bounced" or "clawed back" BEFORE you ship the item. Right now, the only sources of payment that meet those two criteria;
- Federal Funds wire transfer
- Zelle
- Paypal Friends and family
- Cash
ACH bank transfer's can be bounced or clawed back. Cashiers checks and money orders are often counterfeited and very hard to verify.
**** Seller BEWARE****
Other SBG members may have other methods that have worked that they can suggest.
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stormmaster
Member
I like viking/migration era swords
Posts: 7,714
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Post by stormmaster on Jan 15, 2021 18:15:02 GMT
for checks and stuff just sit on it until its done processing in acc then its good, if its not good by that point it will automatically be removed from acc
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Post by pellius on Jan 15, 2021 20:20:28 GMT
Like any check, a cashiers check is just a promise to pay. Even if the funds exist to clear the check, many financial institutions will take money from your account if, for whatever reason, the check is eventually not honored.
If you are worried about such things, take the check to the institution that issued it (not your own bank) and insist on exchanging it for cash.
Every time I have ever done this, the institution first offered some other form of payment that wasn’t cash, then insisted I take such a payment, then made me wait (sometimes for quite a while) for a manager to “approve” the transaction, all the while implying what I wanted was questionable and maybe illegal. I believe that is because the institution knows they will be the ones to take the loss if the transaction fails; not their member and certainly not me.
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Post by pellius on Feb 5, 2022 15:01:47 GMT
Mod note To help keep this thread on topic, a post by member rschuch was moved to here: sbg-sword-forum.forums.net/thread/66856/opinion-on-full-disclosureMember rschuch summarized the relevant point of his original post: “People buying items should be forewarned to read between the lines and ask questions first about everything, no matter how silly they may seem, rather than get the item and have a surprise of the not pleasant kind.” |
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Post by Lonely Wolf Forge on Feb 20, 2022 14:16:18 GMT
Shipping insurance is worthless, if they lose the package they will NOT honor it. Ive had multiple packages go missing or be marked delivered but to the wrong address and their answer is always the same "its marked delivered not our problem" or "you need to call this person" and then when you call that number they tell you you need to call the person you just talked to who gave your their number then they will bounce you back and forth until you give up.
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