rschuch
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Sharp blades are good to have, if Shire-folk go walking, east, south, far away into dark and danger.
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Post by rschuch on Feb 5, 2022 11:42:54 GMT
Opinion question. I recently bought a DSA sword on the forum. On the DSA site and on the KoA site (and everywhere I've seen it honestly) it ships with a scabbard. It can be sharp or blunt, plain scabbard or with the belt, but sword and scabbard come as a set. The ad did not say, "No scabbard" but neither did it say specifically "scabbard included" and a photo of the scabbard was not included in the ad.
So short story long, I was a bit surprised and dismayed when I got the sword sans scabbard. The seller says it was my fault for assuming it was included and I think he should have had full disclosure of the item since it was a special order (he ordered it without to save costs).
Since it was a misunderstanding both ways I offered to split the cost of my ordering a replacement including shipping. I haven't heard back.
So ... Do I post negative on this guy if he doesn't agree to split the costs or is it my fault for assuming and not noticing the absence of the scabbard and asking in a PM where it was? I'm relatively new here and just wondering if there was an accepted standard of disclosure.
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kaiyo
Member
Posts: 1,201
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Post by kaiyo on Feb 5, 2022 14:05:35 GMT
Opinion question. I recently bought a DSA sword on the forum. On the DSA site and on the KoA site (and everywhere I've seen it honestly) it ships with a scabbard. It can be sharp or blunt, plain scabbard or with the belt, but sword and scabbard come as a set. The ad did not say, "No scabbard" but neither did it say specifically "scabbard included" and a photo of the scabbard was not included in the ad. So short story long, I was a bit surprised and dismayed when I got the sword sans scabbard. The seller says it was my fault for assuming it was included and I think he should have had full disclosure of the item since it was a special order (he ordered it without to save costs). Since it was a misunderstanding both ways I offered to split the cost of my ordering a replacement including shipping. I haven't heard back. So ... Do I post negative on this guy if he doesn't agree to split the costs or is it my fault for assuming and not noticing the absence of the scabbard and asking in a PM where it was? I'm relatively new here and just wondering if there was an accepted standard of disclosure. A scabbard is always optional, DSA offers all sword with and without a scabbard. As you wrote the seller also posted pictures without a scabbard, why would he take pictures without the scabbard if one is included ? So unfortunately this is only your fault, you should not post a negative feedback. The seller is not responsible for what you MIGHT think is included...
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rschuch
Member
Sharp blades are good to have, if Shire-folk go walking, east, south, far away into dark and danger.
Posts: 804
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Post by rschuch on Feb 5, 2022 14:52:57 GMT
Ok. Point taken. If you go to the websites though, a sword only option is not shown. On the thread there were LOTS of photos of many different swords. I honestly didn't look through everything because I have a small phone and pics take forever to load anyway. So yeah, maybe I didn't exercise due diligence.
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pgandy
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Senior Forumite
Posts: 10,296
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Post by pgandy on Feb 5, 2022 15:19:15 GMT
In regards to the OP question, no negative post is warranted. If a scabbard is not mentioned, photo graphed, nor promised the buyer should not expect one.
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Post by joe_meadmaker on Feb 5, 2022 15:30:55 GMT
I agree with the consensus here. I get where you're coming from. With brands that typically have a scabbard, it can be easy to assume it will be there. But if it's not mentioned in the ad or in the photos, you need to ask the seller.
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Post by Kane Shen on Feb 5, 2022 18:13:07 GMT
Opinion question. I recently bought a DSA sword on the forum. On the DSA site and on the KoA site (and everywhere I've seen it honestly) it ships with a scabbard. It can be sharp or blunt, plain scabbard or with the belt, but sword and scabbard come as a set. The ad did not say, "No scabbard" but neither did it say specifically "scabbard included" and a photo of the scabbard was not included in the ad. So short story long, I was a bit surprised and dismayed when I got the sword sans scabbard. The seller says it was my fault for assuming it was included and I think he should have had full disclosure of the item since it was a special order (he ordered it without to save costs). Since it was a misunderstanding both ways I offered to split the cost of my ordering a replacement including shipping. I haven't heard back. So ... Do I post negative on this guy if he doesn't agree to split the costs or is it my fault for assuming and not noticing the absence of the scabbard and asking in a PM where it was? I'm relatively new here and just wondering if there was an accepted standard of disclosure. A scabbard is always optional, DSA offers all sword with and without a scabbard. As you wrote the seller also posted pictures without a scabbard, why would he take pictures without the scabbard if one is included ? So unfortunately this is only your fault, you should not post a negative feedback. The seller is not responsible for what you MIGHT think is included... At least for the past several years, DSA has been selling all of their swords with scabbards, there is no option to buy without the scabbard.
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Post by Kane Shen on Feb 5, 2022 18:21:18 GMT
Opinion question. I recently bought a DSA sword on the forum. On the DSA site and on the KoA site (and everywhere I've seen it honestly) it ships with a scabbard. It can be sharp or blunt, plain scabbard or with the belt, but sword and scabbard come as a set. The ad did not say, "No scabbard" but neither did it say specifically "scabbard included" and a photo of the scabbard was not included in the ad. So short story long, I was a bit surprised and dismayed when I got the sword sans scabbard. The seller says it was my fault for assuming it was included and I think he should have had full disclosure of the item since it was a special order (he ordered it without to save costs). Since it was a misunderstanding both ways I offered to split the cost of my ordering a replacement including shipping. I haven't heard back. So ... Do I post negative on this guy if he doesn't agree to split the costs or is it my fault for assuming and not noticing the absence of the scabbard and asking in a PM where it was? I'm relatively new here and just wondering if there was an accepted standard of disclosure. When did he buy the sword from DSA? I’ve never seen on their website that you can have the option to order without a scabbard. Without sharpening, yes. Without the belt, yeah. Never without the scabbard. Never seen any third party reseller offer the scabbardless option either. Of course you would assume it come with a scabbard because it’a part of the product offered by this brand. It’s like saying the sword doesn’t come with a tang but it’s your fault to assume there would be a tang without seeing the tang in the photo. Absolutely ridiculous.
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pgandy
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Posts: 10,296
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Post by pgandy on Feb 5, 2022 18:37:25 GMT
When did he buy the sword from DSA? One vendor cannot be held accountable for another vendor’s ad. KoA is not DSA nor did KoA promise a scabbard in any way and is no doubt the reason for KoA’s price. If he bought from DSA and they advertised as coming with a scabbard then he has reason to complain.
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Post by Kane Shen on Feb 5, 2022 18:41:52 GMT
When did he buy the sword from DSA? One vendor cannot be held accountable for another vendor’s ad. KoA is not DSA nor did KoA promise a scabbard in any way and is no doubt the reason for KoA’s price. If he bought from DSA and they advertised as coming with a scabbard then he has reason to complain. That is what I said, DSA ALWAYS sell their swords with scabbards. There has never been a time you have the option to even buy their swords without a scabbard. It is included in the price, and it is part of their product. I don't know when did KoA enter the room, I don't see anybody mentioning it. Not that KoA offer DSA product in any different way either.
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Feb 5, 2022 18:51:23 GMT
I completely understand the mistake in the OP, such things happen and happened to me too, but in the end it was my mistake, not the seller's - as long as there is no misleading with pictures or descriptions. Learning the hard way is still learning!
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Post by Kane Shen on Feb 5, 2022 19:00:23 GMT
I completely understand the mistake in the OP, such things happen, happened to me too, but in the end it was my mistake, not the seller's. How is it a mistake of the OP to assume the seller is selling a product as offered by the brand maker? The scabbard is included in the price of the DSA product (not as an option), the buyer is paying for it whether he likes the scabbard (or its price) or not. If the classified is missing a common component, it is the SELLER's responsibility to explicitly state it, not the buyer's responsibility.
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Feb 5, 2022 19:05:52 GMT
I edited my post already to make it more clear. The mistake in the OP simply is that the assumption was wrong, the seller's offer wasn't.
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Feb 5, 2022 19:17:04 GMT
One vendor cannot be held accountable for another vendor’s ad. KoA is not DSA nor did KoA promise a scabbard in any way and is no doubt the reason for KoA’s price. If he bought from DSA and they advertised as coming with a scabbard then he has reason to complain. That is what I said, DSA ALWAYS sell their swords with scabbards. There has never been a time you have the option to even buy their swords without a scabbard. It is included in the price, and it is part of their product. I don't know when did KoA enter the room, I don't see anybody mentioning it. Not that KoA offer DSA product in any different way either. My error. KoA was mentioned in the OP and thought that to be the vendor. However my statement still stands. One vendor cannot be accountable for another’s ad. If an object is not included in the seller’s ad it cannot be assumed to be included on the grounds another seller is offering it. If it is not stated in the contract it does not exist and is faulty to assume that it does.
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rschuch
Member
Sharp blades are good to have, if Shire-folk go walking, east, south, far away into dark and danger.
Posts: 804
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Post by rschuch on Feb 5, 2022 19:30:13 GMT
These are the options on both sites. No mention of sword only. imgur.com/a/LUnUJleLike I mentioned, there were a LOT of pics of like 10 different swords, like 40 pics or more all in one imgur post you had to scroll through with no indication of what you were even looking at. It was confusing. I didn't go looking for the scabbard because I just assumed it was in the mix somewhere. Not an excuse. I take responsibility. But I still feel it should have read "no scabbard" and the price I paid I felt should have included it.
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Post by Kane Shen on Feb 5, 2022 19:47:34 GMT
That is what I said, DSA ALWAYS sell their swords with scabbards. There has never been a time you have the option to even buy their swords without a scabbard. It is included in the price, and it is part of their product. I don't know when did KoA enter the room, I don't see anybody mentioning it. Not that KoA offer DSA product in any different way either. My error. KoA was mentioned in the OP and thought that to be the vendor. However my statement still stands. One vendor cannot be accountable for another’s ad. If an object is not included in the seller’s ad it cannot be assumed to be included on the grounds another seller is offering it. If it is not stated in the contract it does not exist and is faulty to assume that it does. DSA is not a "vendor", it is the owner of the brand, and the product comes from them. They never sell products with scabbards. If you sell a DSA product, it is assumed rightfully it is what DSA originally sells, unless otherwise stated.
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stormmaster
Member
I like viking/migration era swords
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Post by stormmaster on Feb 5, 2022 19:47:47 GMT
What did u pay for it?
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Feb 5, 2022 19:53:49 GMT
I think there's a difference between professional sellers, vendors, forges, stores or whatever and private offers. Profesionals should make it clear, private sellers also, but you can't blame them if they don't, as long as they don't mislead.
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tera
Moderator
Posts: 1,655
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Post by tera on Feb 5, 2022 20:06:07 GMT
First, I'm sorry to hear that anybody had a bad experience in the Classifieds here. I'm sure neither buyer not seller are happy in this case. I strongly encourage lots of communication before, during, and after a sale to keep all parties happy.
I'm not intending to take sides here, but I did look this up and have some observations:
1) The seller included an invitation to PM with any questions and even request custom pictures in the listing. So, they were open to communication or clarification.
2) It seems to be correct that no scabbard is mentioned regarding this specific sword (to include saying it does not have one).
3) However, the seller included a Spec Sheet along with all the photos. Swords are listed "w/ scabbard" or lack comment on scabbard. With the photos showing no evidence of a scabbard and none listed in the spec sheet, it seems reasonable to believe that no scabbard was expressly or implied to be advertised.
I think the unfortunate theme here is miscommunication, or not enough of it. I don't think a negative review is warranted, on either side. Despite his disappointment, rschuch has respectfully omitted the seller's name from this discussion. That is a classy move.
This may prove just to be a disappointing lesson, but hopefully one none of us will have to relearn. Ask questions early, often, and be thorough. Assume nothing, and be clear on expectations both as a seller and a buyer. Snafus can still happen, even with the best of intentions. I see nothing but good intentions here.
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kaiyo
Member
Posts: 1,201
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Post by kaiyo on Feb 5, 2022 20:06:13 GMT
Of course DSA sells all swords without a scabbard, just ask for it and you will receive your sword without one. The seller does not need to state without scabbard if the picture does not show one.
Lets pretend you buy a scap car with no wheels, pictures clearly show no wheels. After you bought you complain...where are the wheels. Is the seller responsible to also state no wheels ? No
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Feb 5, 2022 20:14:01 GMT
3) However, the seller included a Spec Sheet along with all the photos. Swords are listed "w/ scabbard" or lack comment on scabbard. With the photos showing no evidence of a scabbard and none listed in the spec sheet, it seems reasonable to believe that no scabbard was expressly or implied to be advertised. I think the unfortunate theme here is miscommunication, or not enough of it. I don't think a negative review is warranted, on either side. Despite his disappointment, rschuch has respectfully omitted the seller's name from this discussion. That is a classy move. This may prove just to be a disappointing lesson, but hopefully one none of us will have to relearn. Ask questions early, often, and be thorough. Assume nothing, and be clear on expectations both as a seller and a buyer. Snafus can still happen, even with the best of intentions. I see nothing but good intentions here. You nailed it! (Your English-Kung-Fu is better than mine) ((always brownnosing mods))
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