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Post by Lancelot Chan on Jan 23, 2019 5:44:37 GMT
I will also share my experience in ordering from Longship just as a compare. At first, with Longship, I also stated every spec. including thickness. Then when the sword comes, it's off the spec. here and there, both in width and thickness, and also length by a bit.... But wait, after testing it for a while, it was done that way all for the better. How do I know? Because I ended up ordering a sword from a cheap maker in Filipino that totally followed my spec. and it was far from as good!
John Lundemo tuned my designs so that it worked better than I originally envisioned. Since it has been this way for several more swords, in the later ones like Giant Silvia and the upcoming Nagamaki, or the students' ones, I simply omit most spec., saves the shape and length, and have John Lundemo tune it right. He always made them better than I had wanted.
In the end, again and again, he proved that he's supreme in handling characteristic tuning and I got swords I'm extremely proud to be with. It takes a very skillful craftsman who also do swordfighting and understand sword fighting mechanic / cutting mechanic, to tune the sword to become excellent. Especially that most of my swords are non-traditional designs, which takes him a wide expertise to combine the best in the Eastern swords and the Western swords into the single sword.
Now to compare sinosword with longship JL is unfair of course. But that shows how custom sword orders can be "not exact" and "not 120 emails exchanges" yet still end up supreme.
I was hoping sinosword's smith would have better sense in what's usable, fighting-capable and would tune it that way, being spoiled by Longship and John Lundemo for years. LOL. Well now I know better.
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Post by Richard Arias on Jan 23, 2019 7:17:40 GMT
Whats the price difference ball park for these "supreme" swords your used to using and what you paid for both of these Sino projects put together? So that users can get why sometimes you pay more for swords. Because the old saying is "YA GET WHAT YA PAY FOR" ;)
The picture of all the big swords next to the sino in tour FB picks. What did those cost?
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Post by Lancelot Chan on Jan 23, 2019 8:03:06 GMT
Just for the records, I'm not dissing Sinosword here. Before my nodachi arrives, I introduced a friend to buy from them and I tested / sharpened the sword for him, the Qijian.
And even after the nodachi has arrived, I still introduced 3 to 5 orders to them from my students around the world (1 in US, 1 in china, 1 to 2 in local). So it's just that "they can do better", not that they're totally hopeless.
And for people who would like to see me cutting with a "normal sized sword", check this out:
Using another lung chuan katana on an aquatherm PPR pipe cored roll, with aquatherm being the recommended brand of PPR pipe by famous sword maker Peter Johnsson to simulate living bone.
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Post by Adrian Jordan on Jan 24, 2019 2:43:56 GMT
Keep this civil, please. This was a review of a sword, not a hit piece.
Lance's order was definitely a difficult one, but the vendor accepted it. Whether they did so believing they could do it or thinking that they could get close enough to be good enough, they couldn't and they didn't. It's not a lack of skill either in sharpening/honing or swordsmanship that makes the sword not ideal for use. Had they totally nailed the specs and it still didn't work then it'd be his fault for providing bad ones. The worst thing that should come from a less than stellar review is that folks will now know not to try this kind of order themselves, and Sinosword should know not to try it again until they can pull it off faithfully.
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Post by Lancelot Chan on Jan 26, 2019 6:20:08 GMT
Sinosword sent in update of the rest of our orders, including my student's nodachi. Once again they measured at the spine thickness. Man.... I want this! Measured this way: Guess habit is hard to change for them....
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Post by Lancelot Chan on Jan 26, 2019 7:40:20 GMT
They provided pics of my measure way. It is good now. :)
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Post by Jordan Williams on Jan 26, 2019 7:59:58 GMT
Man that would be a ton of excess weight if they had measured it at the back instead of where you wanted it. I totally see why you'd be upset and the sword would be basically worthless in martial context.
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Post by Lancelot Chan on Jan 26, 2019 8:07:59 GMT
Man that would be a ton of excess weight if they had measured it at the back instead of where you wanted it. I totally see why you'd be upset and the sword would be basically worthless in martial context. Yes, 1mm more is HELL A LOT OF STEEL across the length and width. Thank you and zabazagobo for understanding the point so well.
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Post by zabazagobo on Jan 26, 2019 8:44:44 GMT
Man that would be a ton of excess weight if they had measured it at the back instead of where you wanted it. I totally see why you'd be upset and the sword would be basically worthless in martial context. Yes, 1mm more is HELL A LOT OF STEEL across the length and width. Thank you and zabazagobo for understanding the point so well. Understanding the point? Don't you mean the flat?
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Post by Lancelot Chan on Jan 26, 2019 10:58:47 GMT
Yes, 1mm more is HELL A LOT OF STEEL across the length and width. Thank you and zabazagobo for understanding the point so well. Understanding the point? Don't you mean the flat? ;) I mean you know measuring the spine thickness is kinda meaningless. :D
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Post by Lancelot Chan on Jan 30, 2019 6:26:03 GMT
One more error. They got the skin color wrong this time around. Become white ray skin when I asked for black. LOL. They said they can refund me a bit. They also think my new design is too flexible. I showed them how much my Longship Giant Silvia flex more than that. I think it's their lack of knowledge in the designs other than oriental swords.
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Post by zabazagobo on Jan 30, 2019 8:58:28 GMT
Huh...black is white....that's...understandable? Lol
Interesting to mention their thoughts on blade flex. When a sword gets to that length, it really should have some flex otherwise it's just asking to break or bend sooner rather than later. As you mentioned, they must not have studied European sword methods much. Which raises an interesting question about the swordmaking practices in East Asia compared to Central and Western Europe...with how differential hardening was fairly common in the former, maybe it's a fair assumption the emphasis was placed more on a rigid forceful blade? Suits the needs of battle based on armor and arms encountered most likely.
I know some Chinese style swords got pretty large, but were they usually differentially hardened, or through hardened? Just curious as to what historicity (if any) their mindset may involve.
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Post by Lancelot Chan on Jan 30, 2019 9:20:34 GMT
Huh...black is white....that's...understandable? Lol Interesting to mention their thoughts on blade flex. When a sword gets to that length, it really should have some flex otherwise it's just asking to break or bend sooner rather than later. As you mentioned, they must not have studied European sword methods much. Which raises an interesting question about the swordmaking practices in East Asia compared to Central and Western Europe...with how differential hardening was fairly common in the former, maybe it's a fair assumption the emphasis was placed more on a rigid forceful blade? Suits the needs of battle based on armor and arms encountered most likely. I know some Chinese style swords got pretty large, but were they usually differentially hardened, or through hardened? Just curious as to what historicity (if any) their mindset may involve. Chinese swords were usually differentially hardened. Sinosword said they worried with bad usage the sword would be damaged for certain. They think flexible swords won't be able to cut at all. So their comfort zone is limited to rigid swords. Also, I think they have assumption that all their customers are sword abusers.
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pgandy
Moderator
Senior Forumite
Posts: 10,296
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Post by pgandy on Jan 30, 2019 14:48:27 GMT
Also, I think they have assumption that all their customers are sword abusers. Sounds like Sinosword and CS with their over engineered swords might have gone to the same school. Oh well, CS might be getting better lately.
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Post by Lancelot Chan on Jan 30, 2019 14:52:20 GMT
Also, I think they have assumption that all their customers are sword abusers. Sounds like Sinosword and CS with their over engineered swords might have gone to the same school. Oh well, CS might be getting better lately. Agree. This is what they thought "too flexible to cut". Let me tell you, it seems still very rigid to me, compare to my Longship GS. :P
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Post by Lancelot Chan on Jan 30, 2019 15:04:58 GMT
Another mistake they seemed to make is to use a smaller tsuba than before, which I stated I wanted to keep that size. Back then they suggested me to use a smaller tsuba before due to the decreased blade width but I said I wanted the original size. They still end up using what they want instead of my decision. :( Sigh. Let's see if they can swap the tsuba back for me. Original tsuba size The new one the put on. Both tsuka are of the same size so it can be used as a compare.
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Post by Lancelot Chan on Jan 31, 2019 5:26:36 GMT
Well the swords won't come before vacation since they have no one to swap the tsuba back. :(
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Post by zabazagobo on Jan 31, 2019 10:04:41 GMT
Huh, that's also an odd gaffe. I wonder if that's the wakizashi size or something?
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Post by Lancelot Chan on Jan 31, 2019 12:42:18 GMT
Huh, that's also an odd gaffe. I wonder if that's the wakizashi size or something? i use large grip so normal tsuba will look small on it.
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Zen_Hydra
Moderator
Born with a heart full of neutrality
Posts: 2,625
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Post by Zen_Hydra on Jan 31, 2019 18:27:25 GMT
I currently have a custom niuweidao-katana hybrid in the production queue with Sinosword.
Hopefully, their attention to detail will be better focused during the process of making my sword.
They did a pretty good job of sticking to my precise measurement specifications with my previous custom order, and that one was almost certainly more difficult to execute than my current one.
I guess we'll just have to wait and see.
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