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Post by Richard Arias on Jan 22, 2019 13:27:05 GMT
All the longship swords i used in the above did not have width taper at all and were over 4 lbs. still they worked like charm due to good distal taper and weight distribution. the only thing that hindered the nodachi was its slowness caused by being too thick, way thicker than my spec. had required. i didn't design it to be that forward heavy. they took my measurement wrong. the tatami i cut was the used one from japan since i was cutting at a local toyama ryu dojo. they do not use the chinese mats. they host the annual competition here so the same grade of japanese mats plus usually under soaked, soaking only 2 to 4 hrs. i dunno if u have ever used swords that were too slow to cut. u dun sound like u did anyway, thus lacking the understanding of the mechanism. as i said i didn't design it as 5.25 lbs 11.25 pob sword to begin with. As I said before its clear you specified a blade that is beyond your comfortable limits. Its beyond the majority of what JSA schools use. Maybe with a bohi you would have had better luck or 3.5cm width. I have played baseball with a 1.5kg bat. Now going into a batting cage and trying to hit a 140kph fastball is VERY hard. The average bat is only 980g in professional baseball. Yes you have cut better with swords over 4lbs.... This one is over 5. So agian im just saying its not exactly the swords fault that its to big. So big that with you sharpening it your cutting well below your usual standard. But that shouldnt be a shock. I don't use swords like that and you demonstrated why. They really require a massive amount of strength to use well. Again this sword of yours is almost two pounds heavier than a Wind and Thunder that is hard on a lot of JSA users. I wouldn't have cut with that sword of yours without using that 3 month sword wait for 3 months of weight lifting 🏋 and physical conditioning. I understand. Just fine from a certain perspective of combative cutting and general weight, arc and trajectory swing mechanics. But going back to baseball I wouldn't expect to hit the ball out of fhe park with a 2.4kg bat. Maybe with work you can perform better with the sword.
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Post by Lancelot Chan on Jan 22, 2019 13:34:01 GMT
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Post by Lancelot Chan on Jan 22, 2019 13:41:41 GMT
I guess you dun get it. You said like "I asked for this slow monster and you deserve it". I didn't specified it to be that thickness. It was an "error" in communication, thus why they're making the second one with corrected measurement at half the price. If they didn't do it wrong from the first run, the sword would have been at least cutting-capable, if not fighting-capable.
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Post by Richard Arias on Jan 22, 2019 13:44:17 GMT
Cutting tatami doesn't take much velocity. Sharpness will do. So does bottles. I sliced bottles with this sword as shown in the above video. However, being very sharp and good heat treat doesn't mean it will cut everything just fine as you assumed. Cutting newspapers roll with hard core is TOTALLY different thing. It takes velocity, thus lots of power to do. I knew beforehand this sword is not fast enough. Not that I'm lack of confidence, just that I've tested and reviewed swords enough to know. I'd been a sword tester for several sword smiths. This is me cutting triple roll of japanese tatami, under soaked, with a 4.75 lbs 7.5" POB sword. Notice how slow I was going at it and still managed that. Will I be able to cut newspapers rolls with hard core like this? Never. Tatami is easy for me. So easy that I can do the following cut. Duh...would be my response. Yeah that big roll with water in it is easier to cut than a rolled newspaper target with a chopstick core. In the sense that cutting a free standing piece of bamboo, water bottle or pool noodle would be harder. Cut those same mats dry and maybe you wouldn't get through so easy or at all. Again I just see a tatami mat. Dont know how tight it was rolled, how long it soaked or the grade of the mat. In competition you are allowed to touch the mat to judge it because used mats vary in difficulty from grade and age aside from again how tight you rolled and soaked it. Its all relative. Your using a big wide sharp sword to cut that mat. Could you do it with a standard 2.5cm with 1.2kg Japanese sword? Possibly but it would not be so easy if you pulled it off at all. Yes sir you are good and have tested a lot of blades over the years. But with that you can admit that this sword is a bit over your limits. What's wrong with saying that? They are over most anyone's.
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Post by Lancelot Chan on Jan 22, 2019 13:46:36 GMT
Because it wasn't what I asked for, get it?
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Post by Richard Arias on Jan 22, 2019 14:00:30 GMT
I guess you dun get it. You said like "I asked for this slow monster and you deserve it". I didn't specified it to be that thickness. It was an "error" in communication, thus why they're making the second one with corrected measurement at half the price. If they didn't do it wrong from the first run, the sword would have been at least cutting-capable, if not fighting-capable. Well considering the standard Japanese measurement is from the spine its your mistake for assuming it was measured from the shinogi. And again I said in a previous post you didn't make sure they understood. So Again your blaming them for you assuming incorrectly and then you not double checking to be sure. With all the blades you have seen and tested I am surprised you didnt double and triple check everything. All of my communication on each of the 3 swords they made for me is 40+ emails just making sure they understood all my specifications. You may not have asked for this sword exactly but did you explain under specification would be better than over? Did you consider they might go over and adjust other specks to compensate for that? And Again its in their base through hardened steel and polish. In my experience folded steel blades tend to be a bit lighter. Maybe that would have made the difference. But Sino said you accepted their advice to reduce blade width on that half price blade. So it sounds like you do realize this current blade was a bit to much for YOU and its not the blades fault. Your expecting a bit much for the amount of sword you got for a reasonable price. I feel like the review is missing the fact that they did a decent job on a very atypical sword.
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Post by Richard Arias on Jan 22, 2019 14:13:06 GMT
Because it wasn't what I asked for, get it? I get it. I just think 1mm in Motokasane and 1.1mm in Sakikasane is a reasonable specification deviation for a hand made blade. If you would have told the forge that the sword cant be any thicker than your specification because the sword will be to heavy maybe it would have made a difference. Or again if you would have made the width 4cm and not 4.2cm that would have made the difference. Again with all your experience it is odd to me you didn't consider the possibility of how the sword turned out. Looking at your specks you performed how I would expect most people to even if your sword would have been 2mm thinner. Sorry if you dont agree. But I think this review is more a case and point of why a perspective custom sword buyer might want to be more detailed in their specification. And be more aware of the reality of how such an unwieldy speck like this can turn out if it goes just 2 small millimeters of steel in the wrong direction. Not that the sword sucks because of that.
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Post by Lancelot Chan on Jan 22, 2019 14:21:06 GMT
I guess you dun get it. You said like "I asked for this slow monster and you deserve it". I didn't specified it to be that thickness. It was an "error" in communication, thus why they're making the second one with corrected measurement at half the price. If they didn't do it wrong from the first run, the sword would have been at least cutting-capable, if not fighting-capable. Well considering the standard Japanese measurement is from the spine its your mistake for assuming it was measured from the shinogi. And again I said in a previous post you didn't make sure they understood. So Again your blaming them for you assuming incorrectly and then you not double checking to be sure. With all the blades you have seen and tested I am surprised you didnt double and triple check everything. All of my communication on each of the 3 swords they made for me is 40+ emails just making sure they understood all my specifications. You may not have asked for this sword exactly but did you explain under specification would be better than over? Did you consider they might go over and adjust other specks to compensate for that? And agajn its in their base through hardened steel and polish. In my experience folded steel blades tend to be a bit lighter. Maybe that would have made the difference. But Sino said you accepted their advice to reduce blade width on that half price blade. So it sounds like you do realize this current blade was a bit to much for YOU and its not the blades fault. Your expecting a bit much for the amount of sword you got for a reasonable price. I feel like the review is missing the fact that they did a decent job on a very atypical sword. I didn't give them the specification using any JAPANESE TERM, to measure in "Japanese way". I used "blade thickness" in all my emails. Blade thickness as in "the thickest part of the cross section", since many swords in the world do not have the part they were measuring at. In fact, even in Japanese swords, the double edged swords DO NOT have that part. Hira Zukrui DO NOT have that part either. Unokubi Zukuri DO NOT have that part at the tip. Neither do Shobo Zukuri. So since I was never a Japanese sword fan, I was not referring the thickness they were referring to, which is natural. I adjusted the blade width because I realized they could not do what Longship could. The Giant Silvia, is 3.9cm wide all along the blade except the base, with POB around 3.5" range. It's the distal taper that made the magic. So even with my spec. length and width, the nodachi would have been around 4.75 lbs to 5 lbs, at 6" to 7", or even 7.5" POB, which would equate my former Tinker DS sword at max. However, since Sinosword cannot do "complex distal taper", I have to give up some width. As for the rest, you may go ahead bad name me all you want.
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Post by Richard Arias on Jan 22, 2019 14:44:07 GMT
Well considering the standard Japanese measurement is from the spine its your mistake for assuming it was measured from the shinogi. And again I said in a previous post you didn't make sure they understood. So Again your blaming them for you assuming incorrectly and then you not double checking to be sure. With all the blades you have seen and tested I am surprised you didnt double and triple check everything. All of my communication on each of the 3 swords they made for me is 40+ emails just making sure they understood all my specifications. You may not have asked for this sword exactly but did you explain under specification would be better than over? Did you consider they might go over and adjust other specks to compensate for that? And agajn its in their base through hardened steel and polish. In my experience folded steel blades tend to be a bit lighter. Maybe that would have made the difference. But Sino said you accepted their advice to reduce blade width on that half price blade. So it sounds like you do realize this current blade was a bit to much for YOU and its not the blades fault. Your expecting a bit much for the amount of sword you got for a reasonable price. I feel like the review is missing the fact that they did a decent job on a very atypical sword. I didn't give them the specification using any JAPANESE TERM, to measure in "Japanese way". I used "blade thickness" in all my emails. Blade thickness as in "the thickest part of the cross section", since many swords in the world do not have the part they were measuring at. In fact, even in Japanese swords, the double edged swords DO NOT have that part. Hira Zukrui DO NOT have that part either. Unokubi Zukuri DO NOT have that part at the tip. Neither do Shobo Zukuri. So since I was never a Japanese sword fan, I was not referring the thickness they were referring to, which is natural. I adjusted the blade width because I realized they could not do what Longship could. The Giant Silvia, is 3.9cm wide all along the blade except the base, with POB around 3.5" range. It's the distal taper that made the magic. So even with my spec. length and width, the nodachi would have been around 4.75 lbs to 5 lbs, at 6" to 7", or even 7.5" POB, which would equate my former Tinker DS sword at max. However, since Sinosword cannot do "complex distal taper", I have to give up some width. As for the rest, you may go ahead bad name me all you want. Im not bad naming you. In fact the only people that could have done any better would have to be high end world class swordsman. So I wish you would stop taking it as me being against you in some way. Im not. I have been a fan of yours since 2005. But in this case even you have limits. I always double and triple check things. As I said my emails with sino are 40 emails per sword about 120 total even though each sword was some small modification of the same speck. Maybe it is because you do to many Euro and Chinese blades that this sword is also odd. Some things dont cross translate between designs. Maybe all the Euro and Chinese style blade handing makes this Nodachi more awkward. In either case a lot of that isn't explained in your review and beginners won't interpret anything but your negative vibes. When there is a lot more than just one thing about this blade that effects its end result. Hopefully this is a learning experience and the new half price blade makes you happy. You also might have mentioned they are remaking a sword for you for half price because you were not happy. Most forges woudnt so that's also something readers can think about. The fact that they care and want to make it right.
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Post by Richard Arias on Jan 22, 2019 15:05:54 GMT
Im surprised a tiny bit as a marital artist that you didnt look at the sword as a challenge and build yourself up to the sword. You getting more muscle and neurological build towards the sword also equals the velocity you needed to cut.
Yes that is harder. That's why swords got thinner and wider with less niku so that swordsman wouldn't have to work harder on muscle and conditioning to get the same result with bigger swords. I just figured you would push yourself to a new level rather than remaking a new smaller sword.
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Zen_Hydra
Moderator
Born with a heart full of neutrality
Posts: 2,625
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Post by Zen_Hydra on Jan 22, 2019 15:17:57 GMT
Im surprised a tiny bit as a marital artist that you didnt look at the sword as a challenge and build yourself up to the sword. You getting more muscle and neurological build towards the sword also equals the velocity you needed to cut. Yes that is harder. That's why swords got thinner and wider with less niku so that swordsman wouldn't have to work harder on muscle and conditioning to get the same result with bigger swords. I just figured you would push yourself to a new level rather than remaking a new smaller sword. Dude, you are not being realistic. We are talking about big-ass swords here. There is a practical limit to how much mass an individual can optimally accelerate, and a hard limit on that is the wielder's own mass (despite their strength). Lancelot is experienced enough to know his limits, and I trust that if he thinks this sword is too massive for him to effectively use, it is so. Edit: Also, it's absolutely inappropriate to try and publicly shame him for not living up to your nonsensical standard. Get some freaking perspective.
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stormmaster
Member
I like viking/migration era swords
Posts: 7,647
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Post by stormmaster on Jan 22, 2019 16:52:10 GMT
Some swords wont work no matter how much u work out, like the atlantean, not even Arnold could work that
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Post by Lancelot Chan on Jan 22, 2019 19:32:07 GMT
Can someone explain the measurement confusion thing? I have read multiple posts mentioning it? When I spec'd my custom design. I used the Japanese term of Motokasane which should be the thickest area(Ridge). They seemed to understand that immediately and even offered advice on taper,etc. Motokasane isn't the thickest area as you can see in this pic.
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Post by Lancelot Chan on Jan 22, 2019 19:34:38 GMT
Can someone explain the measurement confusion thing? I have read multiple posts mentioning it? When I spec'd my custom design. I used the Japanese term of Motokasane which should be the thickest area(Ridge). They seemed to understand that immediately and even offered advice on taper,etc. You can see here that among all cross sections, only the first one has motokasane. Each has blade thickness, but only 1 has motokasane.
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Post by Lancelot Chan on Jan 22, 2019 20:14:20 GMT
So the shinogi(Ridge) thickness is approximately 1mm more then the spine? It can vary in design. With some design you can drastic thin down the spine, but leaving the ridge just as thick as you can, almost making false edge. In the pic, both number 1 and 2 spotted a drastic difference in thickness between the spine and ridge. Number 3 to 5 have no motokasane.
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Post by maewyn on Jan 22, 2019 20:29:33 GMT
Ricky's a fake Lancelot,nobody takes him seriously.His teacher put it all in public last week.They wouldn't even test him to Dan in sword because he cant do anything required for the testing. Ricky holds a Dan rank in sport chanbarra,that's it,and got his ass handed to him in his only sparring match(8-1) by a girl,not that theres anything wrong with that,Matrix is tough.He is mostly talk,better off ignored.
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Post by zabazagobo on Jan 23, 2019 2:16:08 GMT
Huh? What's this about measuring thickness at the mune rather than the shinogi? How does one even do that with a blades in kanmuri-otoshi, unokubi or blades that taper significantly from the shinogi to the mune? Thickness is most often (I hesitate to say always, but the thought is there) considered at the swords thickest point. If you measured thickness on an unokubi or kanmuri-otsoshi blade at the mune, that would be one heck of a misleading statistic lol.
Also, what's with this "git-good" mentality with oversized swords? After a certain point, size in all aspects (thickness, width, length) experience diminishing returns and eventually become disadvantageous. This is the case of a disadvantageous sword.
This sword wasn't shaped the best by Sinosword (hence the up and coming, and for me eagerly anticipated, revamp) and is what I would call a clunky monster of a sword. Its weight distribution is disadvantageous, it doesn't take much to notice that. I mean, maybe a 78 inch tall behemoth weighing in at 350 pounds could cut with it just fine, but said giant would probably prefer something lighter anyway so it accelerates through the cut more cleanly. Relying on the weight of a sword to force through a cut is often a weak strategy. Flowing with the weight is natural, relying on it is disadvantageous.
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Post by Richard Arias on Jan 23, 2019 3:37:24 GMT
So the shinogi(Ridge) thickness is approximately 1mm more then the spine? It can vary in design. With some design you can drastic thin down the spine, but leaving the ridge just as thick as you can, almost making false edge. In the pic, both number 1 and 2 spotted a drastic difference in thickness between the spine and ridge. Number 3 to 5 have no motokasane. Lance Im sorry if you took my comments as a negative. I wanted to see you work up to that blade and cut with it like a strongman feat that would have been worthy of being called a "feat of wonder". With my disability I have faced a lot of discrimination in life and more so during my time in martial arts. So I tell people to push themselves and do what they think isnt possible. So please try not to take my comments as a "you suck" because your better than I will ever be. Take it as a complement and a "you can do it" and dont let a 5lb piece of metal be in your way. Beat it and master it. Someone mentioned Conan. Well the lesson there was that steel is strong but flesh is stronger and that sword of yours or any sword is nothing without the hand that wields it. Ill say again that im pointing out things that a layman wouldnt get unless stated. Before this boiled over it seemed like the forge majorly messed up and made the sword unusable. Not that a simple miss understanding put 2mm of steel on a sword that would have already been a tall order pushing your limits if it had come out as asked. The 2mm of steel puts it in the mass muscle range for needing to use it. If you name a fair price ill try to buy it from you and see if my current 5'7 160lbs is enough to use it or if I will have to take some steroids and put on 20lbs of bulk to get there :) Again im sorry if I came off as trying to rip you. I was wanting you to kick that swords butt and make peoples jaws drop.
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Post by Lancelot Chan on Jan 23, 2019 5:27:18 GMT
It can vary in design. With some design you can drastic thin down the spine, but leaving the ridge just as thick as you can, almost making false edge. In the pic, both number 1 and 2 spotted a drastic difference in thickness between the spine and ridge. Number 3 to 5 have no motokasane. Yes but in your case it was approximately 1mm more then it was supposed to be? Do you think that 1mm was enough to cause such a problem? It really shows that one needs to be careful with the measurements in the custom sword market. Mine is going to be heavier due to this as well. Yes, it will make a HUGE difference since the blade is 120cm long. 1mm more ALL OVER 120cm long and 4.2cm wide is a lot of weight!!! Moreover, balance affect the handling more so than total weight and that 1mm+ on 120cm long is gonna affect it a lot, especially on the tip!
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Post by Lancelot Chan on Jan 23, 2019 5:33:17 GMT
Ricky's a fake Lancelot,nobody takes him seriously.His teacher put it all in public last week.They wouldn't even test him to Dan in sword because he cant do anything required for the testing. Ricky holds a Dan rank in sport chanbarra,that's it,and got his ass handed to him in his only sparring match by a girl.He is mostly talk,better off ignored. Thanks. I've seen that announcement by his teacher Rich Klaas, thanks to your friend John Pope. I'm also a friend of Tim Vandenover, who runs the dojo where Rich Klaas teaches, if I remember right. :)
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