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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2018 19:50:53 GMT
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Post by Jordan Williams on Aug 26, 2018 3:40:13 GMT
The cross section on the walloon is very cool. Very nice piece there, as well as the cool old sabre. Missed this one when it was posted up.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2018 7:47:48 GMT
Thanks, I look forward to the actual inspection but the cross section on many of these seem to be lenticular/ovoid/elliptical. Another term to describe them aside from felddegen or haudegen is a modern and common term of schwedendegen. Trying to more precisely date them can be tricky, it seems. One clue that I am looking at, which may turn out to be a wild goose chase is the use of screws, or not. Plus trying to determine which Wundes. My sabre was determined to be mid 18th century and likely a Swedish build. This was examined and determined by Dr. Jeffrey L. Forgeng, curator and a director of the Higgins Armoury. It was my first European antique buy. Much like my first reproduction, I thought the first would be enough but I had already started with smaller eastern stuff and a first long blade my yataghan. It has all grown pretty quickly to dealing with too many. Here with the yataghan, my first eagles and some other stuff from a decade ago. That sabre has a not so drastic concave distal property. IIRC about 8mm at the hilt. The epee d'ville in that last picture more than 9mm at the hilt to scalpel at the tip.
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Post by Jordan Williams on Aug 26, 2018 17:08:28 GMT
Was curious about the somewhat thin looking forte of the sabre. Funny that the spadroon looking sword should have a thicker base.
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Uhlan
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Post by Uhlan on Aug 26, 2018 20:50:55 GMT
Nice walloon and a very nice collection too. I find it hard to find a good walloon. There is always something. Like the shell plates missing or messed up, bend bars or short Infantry blades. Yours is looking like mint with that nice Cavalry blade. Kudos!
Cheers.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2018 16:57:34 GMT
Still more of a write up with specifications to come. This arrived this afternoon and two first impressions are a bit striking. The photos above are quite a bit brighter than daylight, so the hilt is a good bit darker but not more than a dark patina. The reddish at the base of the blade is actually the remains of the leather that had seated the blade. The fitment is rock solid and no movement of the wire. The grip a bit rectangular in cross section, which doesn't come across in the photos. Ok, that was more than one first impression. The pierced port plates a bit dimpled but tight and complete. The second almost startling impression. I'll get to specifications in time but remarkably and aside from this other sword I own having a fullered blade and is 200 years newer, they are both of a cutting cross section and much the same in dimension and feel. I do hope to reunite them when out for public display this next month (weather and health providing). The walloon is remarkably sharp in spots and the whole likely dulled a bit at some point. Both swords flexible in the foible but not overly so. This later sword also a backsword of types vs the walloon's double edge.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2018 17:34:04 GMT
Was curious about the somewhat thin looking forte of the sabre. Funny that the spadroon looking sword should have a thicker base. I was emailing back and forth with a maker who was looking for some taper details and have been heartened of the past decade that many are picking up a caliper to relate some dimensions. But anyway, I had a couple of sabre shots on file to show a more extreme concave distal and a more linear example. One a Solingen Runkel from the old school, the other not and a bit later. I'm sure you have experienced the same type of differences. Say the distal differences between your French 1822 and your Mansfield&Lamb (or whatever that crisp light was you grabbed) There was definitely a trend where some like the French continued with a serious concave routine while others tended to let that go in the 19th century with a more linear distal. Anyway, that sexy sugar wafer ivory grip naval epee d ville is not unlike a fencing foil that is wicked fat at the guard and losing oodles once past the forte. The buzzwords amongst Angus Trim and Michael Tinker Pearce planning better medieval reproductions were their low polar moment swords. Some simply starting with thicker stock to begin with. Albion has a few built on those same old formulas going back centuries. The walloon not so drastic but a cutting sword at heart. This we also don't see the drastic distal on the old viking swords. The French 1822 heavy was meant for some heft and stiffness, while getting the mass distribution bacj towards the hilt. Don't get me started on oversteer and understeer but what I was describing a couple of decades ago re rapiers. The car analogy worked for Gus and Tink as well. I'll throw out one specification on the walloon today, the cog is right where the Wundes blade mark is, about 4 1/2" from the guard. Mr Easton recently did a comparative article on a handful of p1796 sabres and opened his eyes a little further. More on the walloon tomorrow. I wish all my swords were in house for easier comparative shots.
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Post by howler on Aug 29, 2018 18:57:45 GMT
Ah, nothing like an old warhorse. But enough about you, lets talk about that distal taper. I bought (and sent back) a CS English Backsword that had like 4mm blade thickness at the guard (they advertised 6mm). I guess production costs are involved which explain why you don't see more blades like that.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2018 21:10:41 GMT
Did someone just post something of no relevance? I'll post some specifications regarding the walloon in a mixed order of metric and inches, just because I can. Overall length of 41" with a grip of 4" and the blade 34.75 inches. The blade width ranges from 4cm at the hilt and 2.5cm an inch from the point. With a weight of 2.5 lbs, the cog is as mentioned previously, right at the Wundes mark and that's 4" from the guard. A lot of weight in the hand when flourishing, I find the forward point of rotation about eight inches from the point. That pointy end rapidly drops from 3mm to 2mm in thickness and is still about a millimeter and a half thick at the point. From the cog to that forward point of rotation, I'm seeing 5mm to that forward rotational point. So, for about 22"-23" of blade, the thickness is only reducing a couple of millimeters over a good portion of the blade. I could have made this easier to read but I'll not be one to use SBG templates and folk can gather what makes any sense of this they care to. Pictures will have to wait for the moment but the Fa gan images are quite large and show much of anything I could. I do hope to be out the first weekend of fall in central Rhode Island. sbg-sword-forum.forums.net/thread/55064/manville-settlers-lincoln-sept-2018That will give me a chance to compare to the other straight job posted above and others I'll load out for the event.
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Post by viece on Aug 29, 2018 21:35:01 GMT
Congrats on this acquisition. It's a gorgeous piece. I have one with a very similar hilt but a wimpy little light infantry blade, as Uhlan mentions. Very jealous. Thanks for sharing it.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2018 0:28:55 GMT
Congrats on this acquisition. It's a gorgeous piece. I have one with a very similar hilt but a wimpy little light infantry blade, as Uhlan mentions. Very jealous. Thanks for sharing it. Thanks, I had watched Pino's listing at myArmoury and had watched several at other dealear sites as well as ebay. Michael D Long aka MDL aka trident sales has had one up on ebay for a long time and dropped his asking price this summer. I had been watching mine carefully, both on F agan and ebay because I was concerned it would eventually get scooped up, and it did This is likely to be the end of my collecting, as I should begin liquidating a great many swords. Aside from one particular style of the eagle pommel swords, I really do need to quit. I don't know whether it was a local trait or other reason we see some using screws on the guard bars or as with mine simply fitted into the pommel (which I often see on 18th and 19th century swords. Blades seem to vary from the broadswords to blades like yours. One on Facebook this past week has what appears to be a blade from the previous century but a blade profile also seen on Spanish heavy cavalry into the late 18th century. It is the blade marks that make that one look like a much older blade.
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Post by howler on Aug 30, 2018 2:24:39 GMT
Did someone just post something of no relevance? I'll post some specifications regarding the walloon in a mixed order of metric and inches, just because I can. Overall length of 41" with a grip of 4" and the blade 34.75 inches. The blade width ranges from 4cm at the hilt and 2.5cm an inch from the point. With a weight of 2.5 lbs, the cog is as mentioned previously, right at the Wundes mark and that's 4" from the guard. A lot of weight in the hand when flourishing, I find the forward point of rotation about eight inches from the point. That pointy end rapidly drops from 3mm to 2mm in thickness and is still about a millimeter and a half thick at the point. From the cog to that forward point of rotation, I'm seeing 5mm to that forward rotational point. So, for about 22"-23" of blade, the thickness is only reducing a couple of millimeters over a good portion of the blade. I could have made this easier to read but I'll not be one to use SBG templates and folk can gather what makes any sense of this they care to. Pictures will have to wait for the moment but the Fa gan images are quite large and show much of anything I could. I do hope to be out the first weekend of fall in central Rhode Island. sbg-sword-forum.forums.net/thread/55064/manville-settlers-lincoln-sept-2018That will give me a chance to compare to the other straight job posted above and others I'll load out for the event. If regarding me, I was giving a joke, so no offense intended, Edel, your not old, just a warhorse. Nice blade.
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Post by viece on Aug 30, 2018 2:57:29 GMT
Congrats on this acquisition. It's a gorgeous piece. I have one with a very similar hilt but a wimpy little light infantry blade, as Uhlan mentions. Very jealous. Thanks for sharing it. Thanks, I had watched Pino's listing at myArmoury and had watched several at other dealear sites as well as ebay. Michael D Long aka MDL aka trident sales has had one up on ebay for a long time and dropped his asking price this summer. I had been watching mine carefully, both on F agan and ebay because I was concerned it would eventually get scooped up, and it did This is likely to be the end of my collecting, as I should begin liquidating a great many swords. Aside from one particular style of the eagle pommel swords, I really do need to quit. I don't know whether it was a local trait or other reason we see some using screws on the guard bars or as with mine simply fitted into the pommel (which I often see on 18th and 19th century swords. Blades seem to vary from the broadswords to blades like yours. One on Facebook this past week has what appears to be a blade from the previous century but a blade profile also seen on Spanish heavy cavalry into the late 18th century. It is the blade marks that make that one look like a much older blade. Interesting insights. Also interesting that you are considering letting some of your collection go. I am a sucker for straight-bladed 18th century stuff and have been considering getting a spadroon. I seem to remember from various threads that you have several nice ones. I also like those early 19th c. French cuirassier swords because they're just so darn big. Will have to watch the sale pages for your stuff!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2018 21:38:51 GMT
Hi, re selling, I am not much of a seller outside of local friends and at an annual event where I display some swords and knives. We'll see what next year looks like but my reproductions are likely to be what might get posted to boards. In the meantime, if there is serious interest in something I have posted I can be best reached at gcleeton@gmail.com. I am not about to post a general list of items, nor would I be a fit for someone just browsing/window shopping. I have been quite generous in the amount of images I have included in posts, so if there is some item of specific interest, it can't hurt to ask.
My French 1854 dragon was bought at The Hartford Show and only enabled that day by selling that fancy epee shown above to Dmitry of Sailor in Saddle, who happened to be there that day and I happened to have the sword there for barter. I am not selling that 1854 at this time.
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Post by Jordan Williams on Sept 14, 2018 5:49:30 GMT
Was curious about the somewhat thin looking forte of the sabre. Funny that the spadroon looking sword should have a thicker base. I was emailing back and forth with a maker who was looking for some taper details and have been heartened of the past decade that many are picking up a caliper to relate some dimensions. But anyway, I had a couple of sabre shots on file to show a more extreme concave distal and a more linear example. One a Solingen Runkel from the old school, the other not and a bit later. I'm sure you have experienced the same type of differences. Say the distal differences between your French 1822 and your Mansfield&Lamb (or whatever that crisp light was you grabbed) There was definitely a trend where some like the French continued with a serious concave routine while others tended to let that go in the 19th century with a more linear distal. Anyway, that sexy sugar wafer ivory grip naval epee d ville is not unlike a fencing foil that is wicked fat at the guard and losing oodles once past the forte. The buzzwords amongst Angus Trim and Michael Tinker Pearce planning better medieval reproductions were their low polar moment swords. Some simply starting with thicker stock to begin with. Albion has a few built on those same old formulas going back centuries. The walloon not so drastic but a cutting sword at heart. This we also don't see the drastic distal on the old viking swords. The French 1822 heavy was meant for some heft and stiffness, while getting the mass distribution bacj towards the hilt. Don't get me started on oversteer and understeer but what I was describing a couple of decades ago re rapiers. The car analogy worked for Gus and Tink as well. I'll throw out one specification on the walloon today, the cog is right where the Wundes blade mark is, about 4 1/2" from the guard. Mr Easton recently did a comparative article on a handful of p1796 sabres and opened his eyes a little further. More on the walloon tomorrow. I wish all my swords were in house for easier comparative shots. Wow, the Runkel looks like it gets very thin very fast. I see the difference in my Mann and Chatellraut, interestingly enough I think I prefer linear taper, at least between those two swords. The foil analogy works quite well I think. Thinking back on how my foil blade was I can imagine how the sabre blade must compare in being a "better weapon". Same with the car analogy, or at least puts it in some perspective.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2019 19:16:17 GMT
I fell off the wagon again last night. Innocently fielding some offer on really expensive stuff, I twitched when I should have concentrating on period swords. I was really close, this past few days, as one "deal" after the other appeared. Swords ranging from second hand Del Tins to some really pretty eagles that don't quite fill the hole I've dug in the manner in which I hope to cap. About a month after I adopted the old felddegen, a really nice assembly showed up on the market. Not soon after I had added it to a watch list, I got an offer from the buyer and we chatted a bit, even pointing him to this board. Long story short, the below should be headed my way soon. Listed month after month, it apparently had been waiting for me. As I never did do great stats and pictures for the old one, a comparative post should eventually get added. Hilt by Armart and grip by Vladmir Cervenka. The blade was from Darkwood Armory I can't quite gallop around the apt with it but I may yet be fit enough again some day to fool around with it some. If not, another comparative teaching item for show(s) and tell. Cheers GC bad dog, no biscuit
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Post by Spathologist on Sept 29, 2019 2:17:21 GMT
That's one very pretty gripe!
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harrybeck
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Post by harrybeck on Sept 29, 2019 3:17:00 GMT
Sweet!
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stormmaster
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I like viking/migration era swords
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Post by stormmaster on Sept 29, 2019 3:20:39 GMT
i saw that one on ebay for a while and was tempted, glad it is going to a new home
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Post by howler on Sept 29, 2019 7:03:44 GMT
Nice. I really like the brown and black color combo between grip & guard. Looks deadly fast.
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