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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Jun 1, 2018 7:26:14 GMT
Plasma - at least the one we speak of in a glowing lightsaber - isn't blood plasma but a very hot, ionized gas. Compressed under the gravitation in a star it will be dense but in our normal environment it's only hot gas without much mass in the volume of a lightsaber blade. I always thought of them as oversized plasma cutters. If there would be mass like the same volume of water it would be in the handle before switching it on. And the blade would weight 4 lb or so I think reckoning the volume. What an inertia in such a long blade, how deflect an incoming plasma bolt with it? I therefore think a lightsaber has a very light (! ) blade and can be moved very fast. Of course in general like a sword but faster. That matches what we've seen in the first six episodes. In the sequels Kylo's sword seem to have more mass but I think that's only a dramatic effect like the crossguard. And Kylo had problems to win against Finn, hah!
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Zen_Hydra
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Post by Zen_Hydra on Jun 1, 2018 10:39:23 GMT
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Jun 1, 2018 11:02:57 GMT
These aren't the swords you're looking for!
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Post by lgarretto on Jun 1, 2018 14:00:12 GMT
So plasma is pretty light? Ok. Well like I said I did not know. That was just a guess. Though now I think about it neon signs are essentially plasma aren’t they? Makes sense. Either way my personal theory is that irl a lightsaber would likely take a little bit of force to be used as a weapon. But not much. So I think most of the movies are for dramatic effect. Having said that maybe it depends on who is using it. For a normal person maybe it would take very small quick movements without much force behind a swing. But since only force-capable users use lightsabers in the Star Wars universe perhaps they are taught to use the force in some way to need more force behind blows. In and of itself though my personal opinion is that a lightsaber would need enough force behind each blow to make it force the blade through the target fast enough to be useable in a fight. So speed would be the essence. And with speed would come enough force to do the job. I find this a very interesting topic
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Post by lgarretto on Jun 1, 2018 14:09:22 GMT
Another small thought, just for the sake of mentioning it, George Lucas does say laser sword. But he only made the movies. He didn’t write the books. And there are a lot of people who wrote the books. In the books it does say the blade is actually made of plasma in a few instances. And while I cannot say what would happen if two plasma beams contacted, lasers would pass through each other. Lightsabers stop each other. But that’s just another “what if” thought to add confusion to the conversation haha
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Jun 1, 2018 14:26:39 GMT
Han Solo, Grievous and Finn used lightsabers and are not known as force-sensitive afaik. I always thought you need the force to use a lightsaber optimally due to its speed and the risk of hurting yourself.
The only SW book I read was the one of Ep. IV, so I can't say much. The "plasma in an force field" (not "the" force) theory makes much sense because the effects of a lightsaber are like a plasma cutter and the ability of stopping each other or being stopped by vibroblades can be due to the force field, not the plasma.
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Zen_Hydra
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Post by Zen_Hydra on Jun 1, 2018 17:02:18 GMT
Why are we nerds trying to apply realistic/plausible scientific explanations to what are essentially magic swords? They clearly defy physics with their behavior, and that is okay. The Star Wars universe won't bear such scrutiny, because it was never meant to. It's literally bootleg Flash Gordon. Like the Flash Gordon serials which inspired it, Star Wars is high fantasy with the casual set-dressing of science fiction. Paper thin characterizations, trivial plots, and ridiculous names are all part of the original concept of a tribute to the serials of Lucas's youth. All the books and peripheral fiction have to a great deal subverted that core concept, and that subversion has been various shades of bad exactly because the seed concept wasn't ever meant to be deeper than a Styrofoam boulder or stage flat facade.
So...with all that said, I think the best interpretation of how a real swordsman would use a lightsaber (and which sticks to the spirit of George Lucas's original concept) would be that a lightsaber is used exactly like a steel sword of its approximate size and shape. In the OG trilogy they were wielded much like a katana (because Kurosawa inspiration). In the prequel trilogy they were used much more like jian (because wuxia influences). In the newest movies, you see some European longsword inspiration. It seems pretty clear to me that despite being a laser sword, these weapons handle like their more mundane counterparts. I think character concept has more bearing on a lightsaber's use than anything specific about a given weapon. A force wielder who has the charm and panache of D'Artagnan would be expected to use a sword like a rapier. A Sith lord who presents himself with the dour and precise carriage of a Prussian army commander would use a lightsaber like a 19th century military sabre.
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Jun 1, 2018 17:09:07 GMT
Wait for the next trilogy! I like reasoning how SiFi myths could work, lightsabers, zombies, interstellar journeys etc. It's just fun. I know that many details in such stories have primarily a dramatic reason, not a scientific.
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sevicler
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Post by sevicler on Jun 1, 2018 17:15:51 GMT
Wait for the next trilogy! Oh dear god. What's next? Sentient SJW Sabers?
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Jun 1, 2018 17:28:51 GMT
Darth Agnan with his red rapier lightsaber (light swept hilt) and light parrying dagger. Rebell commander General Bloocha who swept, ah, swapt his former force broom with a curved single edged lasersword! And a Jar Jar / Ewok hybrid clone army guarding a death star dyson sphere!
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Post by MOK on Jun 1, 2018 18:24:37 GMT
Why are we nerds trying to apply realistic/plausible scientific explanations to what are essentially magic swords? They clearly defy physics with their behavior, and that is okay. They don't need to, though, is the thing. Plasma contained in a magnetic sheath with a side effect of some kind of gyroscopic inertia would explain their behavior reasonably well. If you want lasers to be involved, that's probably what they use to produce the plasma. Things don't need to be realistic, as such, but they do need to make sense in their own context, thematically as well as logically. (Midichlorians, I'm looking at you. )
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Post by MOK on Jun 1, 2018 18:25:36 GMT
And a Jar Jar / Ewok hybrid clone army guarding a death star dyson sphere!
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Post by MOK on Jun 1, 2018 18:30:33 GMT
What's next? Sentient SJW Sabers? OK, you know what, I want one of those. It'll have a flaming rainbow blade and a handle made of HEAVY METAL, and its humm will echo in the nightmares of bigots across the galaxy.
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Post by onekelvin on Jun 1, 2018 19:19:25 GMT
What's next? Sentient SJW Sabers? OK, you know what, I want one of those. It'll have a flaming rainbow blade and a handle made of HEAVY METAL, and its humm will echo in the nightmares of bigots across the galaxy. The lightsaber's blade is omni-directional, really more of a hot striking surface than an actual blade. It would probably be used more along the lines of a bar mace than a sword, no thought at all given to edge alignment, and no edge alignment reflected in the overt forms. Also because of the penetrating nature of the striking surface there would probably be little thought given to anti-armor combat, and since the blades "stick" to one another when they contact there would be a bit of martial arts concerning the frequent binds that ensue. (Rebels confirms gyroscopic drag and magnetic sticking as features of the lightsaber.) So imagine a aluminum/neodymium bar-mace. All about fast strikes to large areas of the body, blade-contact as defense, no sliding, no parrying, mostly hard-blocks and bind-wrestling as defense. And we all know that "Bigot" is consistently applied to anyone the SJW is currently disagreeing with be they straight, gay, black, white, male, female, or LGBTQEDSEVLPWUTEVR, so the "hum" of the rainbow-blade would probably manifest as more of a general user-directed fear effect. Would probably make for a pretty cool dramatic scene where the villain gains the rainbow sword and uses it to strike fear into the hero, forcing the hero to come to the conclusion that no weapon is incapable of betraying it's master and that the only force he can consistently rely on is the force of his will alone. Kind of a hero's-journey thing.
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Post by Jordan Williams on Jun 1, 2018 19:38:59 GMT
I got called a bigot and told that my ancestors were privileged for coming from staten island.
Actually they came from the southern border in the early part of the century, but only the shade of my skin mattered to the accusers lol.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2018 2:01:41 GMT
The only thing I've ever seen a lightsaber stick to is the icy roof of a wampa cave. The blade on blade contact is dramatic tension by the people using them pressing them against each other. Big actions play better on a screen, it has to be overt or people won't munch popcorn to it. Slick subtle things would be lost on an audience even without factoring in magic telekinetic powers.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2018 2:42:59 GMT
Where is our resident light saber expert, Verity and one of his light saber vids to answer this question once and for all?
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Post by howler on Jun 2, 2018 4:01:41 GMT
The only thing I've ever seen a lightsaber stick to is the icy roof of a wampa cave. The blade on blade contact is dramatic tension by the people using them pressing them against each other. Big actions play better on a screen, it has to be overt or people won't munch popcorn to it. Slick subtle things would be lost on an audience even without factoring in magic telekinetic powers. Yup, can't much go by movie logic, otherwise those Errol Flynn type movies, with epee portrayed as heavy rapier, would be gospel.
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Jun 2, 2018 7:27:21 GMT
I guess Errol Flynn wouldn't be bad with a lightsaber. A non-force swordsman would use it like an epee but with the cutting power of a longsword, but only if needed.
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Post by howler on Jun 2, 2018 8:46:37 GMT
I guess Errol Flynn wouldn't be bad with a lightsaber. A non-force swordsman would use it like an epee but with the cutting power of a longsword, but only if needed. If indeed the lightsaber is light (as in low weight and drag) than there would be no doubt.
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