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Post by antoine99 on Dec 16, 2017 1:11:35 GMT
Hey everyone! I am looking to buy a replica Dory spear from the movie 300 (a reproduction, not ACTUALLY used in the movie, lol), but I want it to be functional (battle-ready). I don't intend to cut/stab anything with it, only handle it and practice with it daily. I found this one which looks pretty sturdy, functional, and cheap, since I kind of assume making a spear is less expensive than making a sword of the same level of quality: www.armoryreplicas.com/spear-of-sparta-300-spear/Specifications: Overall Length: 83 inches overall Shaft: Solid wood with cast metal outer shell. Head: Black Anodized Stainless steel spear head and end cap. Includes: Black Anodized Stainless steel spear head and end cap, Brown suede leather wrapped handgrip, Two piece construction for easy transport The weight I think I remember reading somewhere was around 6 lbs. I've seen this spear (or what are basically the same thing) on a few sites, and on E-bay. The splitting in two thing is pretty much unavoidable for shipping I guess. I'm sure it can be done but it's probably not worth it. Anyway, I just want something that captures the look, feel and weight of the movie spear and the real Dory, with a functional tip, etc. The tip is "Black Anodized Stainless steel", is that alright for this weapon to be functional? I've heard stainless steel in swords is a no-no if you want them to be functional, is it alright for a spear though? Thanks everyone!!
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Post by Gunnar Wolfgard on Dec 16, 2017 1:43:05 GMT
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Post by antoine99 on Dec 16, 2017 1:48:02 GMT
Oh nice, that saves me like $30 thanks a lot! Honestly I'd love to get the full thing in a long tube just to see the look of confusion on the delivery person's face What do you think about the construction/spearhead, is stainless steel acceptable? As I said stainless steel for swords is bad, right? Apparently it's fine for stabby type things?
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Post by Gunnar Wolfgard on Dec 16, 2017 1:55:59 GMT
Well if you're not going to be striking anything with it it isn't that important. There is a company called Sporpion Swords and Knives who use to make a real Dory but I just checked their site and they're not taking orders on spears and bows for some reason. If you're not in a real hurry let me check some more. But on the one you're looking at Amazon has the best deal.
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Post by antoine99 on Dec 16, 2017 1:58:06 GMT
Well if you're not going to be striking anything with it it isn't that important. There is a company called Sporpion Swords and Knives who use to make a real Dory but I just checked their site and they're not taking orders on spears and bows for some reason. If you're not in a real hurry let me check some more. But on the one you're looking at Amazon has the best deal. Yeah that's fine, don't worry, I just want a real, functional replica from the movie, and at that price how can I complain, lol, it looks great. They mention that the spearhead is extremely sharp so I assume it's made to stand up to at least a little bit of abuse.
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Post by Gunnar Wolfgard on Dec 16, 2017 2:05:14 GMT
It may be sharp but usually stainless steel is soft so it will bend easy and you bend it back and forth enough it will break.
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Post by antoine99 on Dec 16, 2017 2:09:12 GMT
It may be sharp but usually stainless steel is soft so it will bend easy and you bend it back and forth enough it will break. Ah I see, well for my purposes it's probably fine...But I'm in no hurry I suppose I'll shop around, that Scorpion swords site you linked looks great, unfortunately it seems they don't take orders anymore. I'm sure it would be FAR more expensive though, but of course very well-made. Thanks again
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Post by Gunnar Wolfgard on Dec 16, 2017 2:14:53 GMT
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Post by antoine99 on Dec 16, 2017 4:28:03 GMT
Yeah I was looking for a Dory, but that does indeed look nice, Kult of Athena seems to have great prices, that's where I got my first sword a few weeks ago. Also, on further reading of one of the spear listings, it says "Blade Material: Cast Metal", as opposed to "stainless steel" for a different listing. This sounds pretty vague to me, since they don't mention the metal, can anyone shed some light on this? Sorry for the noob questions
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Post by MOK on Dec 16, 2017 9:19:30 GMT
As an alternative, you could get the Windlass Steelcrafts spearhead and sauroter and haft them yourself (or have someone haft them for you). Would look a hell of a lot better than any of the replicas nominally based on 300...
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Dec 16, 2017 11:33:34 GMT
I am looking to buy a replica Dory spear from the movie 300 (a reproduction, not ACTUALLY used in the movie, lol), but I want it to be functional (battle-ready). As far as a 300 spear goes, this is it. As for how functional/battle-ready it is, it's hard to tell. It depends a lot on the quality of the wood, and the quality of the joint. I wouldn't trust either. I don't intend to cut/stab anything with it, only handle it and practice with it daily. [...] The weight I think I remember reading somewhere was around 6 lbs. Monstrously heavy. Should be under 3lb. Anyway, I just want something that captures the look, feel and weight of the movie spear and the real Dory, with a functional tip, etc. Alas, you can't get both at once. That is, if you get a 300 spear, you don't have a good real dory, and if you get a good dory replica, you don't have something that looks like it's from 300. Time to choose whether you want a 300 spear or a real dory. Or both. For a real dory, a lightweight leaf-shaped blade, butt (sauroter AKA "lizard killer"), and haft to bring the total length to about 8' (2.4m to 2.5m). The haft should be about 20mm diameter (3/4"). There are two main difficulties. The first is trying to find a head and butt that will accommodate a 20mm haft (inner socket diameter should be about 18mm); most replica spearheads have much larger sockets. Many will be too heavy. 150g/5.4oz is good. The socket of the head can be a bit smaller than the butt - a tapered haft is good. The second difficulty is the haft. Since the haft is quite thin, a modern turned pole might not be strong enough. A modern turned pole is also untapered. The historical method for making hafts is to split the timber, heat-straighten, shave round, and smooth. Splitting and straightening means that the grain runs continuously along the whole haft, which is much stronger than a modern pole turned from sawn timber. Choose your wood well. For info on making a dory, see www.larp.com/hoplite/greekweapons.htmlThe tip is "Black Anodized Stainless steel", is that alright for this weapon to be functional? I've heard stainless steel in swords is a no-no if you want them to be functional, is it alright for a spear though? It depends on the alloy (and the heat treatment). Some stainless steels are OK for swords (with suitable heat treatment), and others will give you something soft and very tough, and others will give you something very hard and brittle. The real problem with stainless steel swords is that they're usually made as ornamental swords, as wallhangers, often by people who have no clue how to make real swords. If they use 440C so that they can say "we used 440C", it can easily be too brittle. If they use 420J2 for easy grinding and polishing, and good corrosion resistance, they'll get something tough but a little soft (like 45HRC, assuming they heat-treat). Either way, it'll probably have a skinny rat-tail tang. For a spear, 420J2 would be OK. Even a low-carbon stainless like 304 would be functional (but not optimal). Your problems aren't the use of stainless, but a weak joint in the middle, and low quality wood (which is what usually gets used on this kind of thing).
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pgandy
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Senior Forumite
Posts: 10,296
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Post by pgandy on Dec 16, 2017 13:49:45 GMT
If you are looking for a play pretty wall hanger it’s one thing. But what you were originally looking at is made of questionable quality steel. Unless there is a definite need to make anything shorter think again about a jointed/take down article. And man, a 6 lb. speer? I hope you have an outstanding arm. But again if you are just looking for a wall hanger is one thing. MOK’s suggestion will be hard to beat.
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Post by Gunnar Wolfgard on Dec 16, 2017 14:21:10 GMT
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Post by antoine99 on Dec 16, 2017 16:42:39 GMT
Wow, lots of great info here, thanks everyone
I would probably get a more accurate Dory if I find one, I'll keep searching. Also maybe 6 lbs wasn't right, I forgot where I saw that. But I wouldn't mind something so heavy really (maybe not THAT heavy), I think Roman legionaries used to train with swords and shields that were twice the weight of the real weapons. But maybe it's easier with swords.
Also about that helmet, I find the historically accurate one looks a lot better than the movie version
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Post by Gunnar Wolfgard on Dec 16, 2017 19:02:18 GMT
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Post by antoine99 on Dec 16, 2017 19:18:17 GMT
Ah, yes that's unfortunate...I am looking for a real weapon, true. Too bad Kult of Athena doesn't have it unless I make it myself with parts. Maybe I'll try doing that as someone suggested, it might turn out to be a disaster but maybe I'll learn Thanks again everyone EDIT: Actually, I think I'll buy a closet rod (long wooden pole) and practice with that until I find something to buy.
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Post by Gunnar Wolfgard on Dec 16, 2017 20:25:59 GMT
Well heres a possible, it's a little more money at $180 BUT they're having a 20% off Christmas sale which would bring it down to $144. www.darkknightarmoury.com/p-14231-greek-spear.aspxOh, if you don't like the shiny metal a little gun blue will take care of that. Don't know why they call it gun BLUE when it turns metal BLACK
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Dec 16, 2017 21:11:17 GMT
Also maybe 6 lbs wasn't right, I forgot where I saw that. But I wouldn't mind something so heavy really (maybe not THAT heavy), I think Roman legionaries used to train with swords and shields that were twice the weight of the real weapons. But maybe it's easier with swords. Could easily be that heavy. The haft is thicker than historical, and the head is (probably) much heavier than historical. We don't have a good source for Roman practice. Vegetius, c. 400, says But he's talking about "ancient" practice (early Imperial?), not what was done in his day. How reliable this info is not unclear. A woven willow round buckler would have to be a monster thing if twice the weight of an early Imperial scutum! A practice sword twice the weight of a gladius - maybe OK, since that might put the heavy trainer at 3-3.5lb (1.3-1.5kg). 6lb could be OK as a heavy trainer for a two-handed spear (you'd still want the real thing to be lighter). One handed spear - maybe too heavy to be a useful trainer. (One-handed spears could exceed 2kg. A lot of 19th century cavalry lances were about 2.7m/9' and 2.2kg/4.8lb (but some are well over 3m while keeping the weight at about 1.7kg).)
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Dec 16, 2017 21:13:25 GMT
5lb 13oz, according to KoA.
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Post by Gunnar Wolfgard on Dec 16, 2017 21:58:40 GMT
Well there you go, he's saving 3oz. over the toy one. It's going to be hard to find a 83 inch dory with real steel on both end that's going to weigh much less unless they use balsa wood. If 5 lbs 13 oz. is to heavy for him all I can say is Grow Stronger. Try to find a dory for sale, there's not a lot out there, I know I checked. The Scorpion if it was still available was 2lbs 6oz but it was 3 inches shorter and had flat 1/4 inch blades. The windlass spear head alone is 1lb 6oz and that's just the one end. traditionalarcherybows.com/handmade_spartan_dory_spear_p64.html
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