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Post by 28shadow on Jul 27, 2017 16:37:28 GMT
Here is a vid of the man himself, SBG owner, Paul, testing the Castile. He notes blade vibration after a strike. Does that mean its too dull and needs sharpening? Yes, if the blade isn't sharpened correctly even simple water bottles will send an absurd amount of vibration through the sword from the shock of the blow. Both of my swords have been given convex edges by their previous owners, so that's not a problem.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2017 10:23:12 GMT
Researching medieval sword tangs. It seems in general, they are narrow and thin as compared to katana tangs? Threaded tangs allow for disassembly and easier customization, but I found more than a few medieval threaded tang breakages. They broke where the tang threads begin.
Is this common for threaded tangs? Does it depend on type of steel, and or diameter and length of the threaded portion? Or are peened tangs much more durable?
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Jul 28, 2017 12:01:26 GMT
On modern "Medieval", the tangs are often thinner than katana tangs. On both modern and original ones, often narrower, but sometimes still quite wide. Tangs on original Medieval swords that are about 1"/25mm wide at the bade, and 6mm-7mm (1/4") thick are not unusual. Some replicas are similar. But some styles of Medieval swords usually have much narrower tangs.
Where the blades are thick at the base, the tangs will be thick at the base, too.
But many replicas have narrow tangs, and blades that are thin at the base, compared to originals. Worse, they have grips that don't fit the tang closely, and the tang can easily move around in the grip. This means that the grip can't properly support the tang, and it will flex more and be more likely to break.
The biggest problem with threaded tangs are (a) the tang being too skinny, and (b) bad welds where the threaded section is a welded on extension. The first, (a) too skinny, can be because the tang is fairly thin, and threading the end means that it needs to be approximately round, so must be as narrow as it is thin.
A well-done threaded tang is fine, and can easily be stronger than a poorly-done peened tang. Thickness and width of the tang, the shape of the transition between blade and tang, heat treatment of the tang, and how well the grip is made affect the durability more than whether it is peened or threaded.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2017 12:08:37 GMT
Thanks for that detailed info. Are there brands known for better threaded and or peened tangs?
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Post by Faldarin on Jul 28, 2017 17:50:19 GMT
Thanks for that detailed info. Are there brands known for better threaded and or peened tangs? Generally - a keyed and peened tang is always going to be more durable. Most places won't tell you if it's keyed though, they'll just say 'peened'. The biggest advantages of having a threaded tang would be customizability or ease of cleaning. I know that historical accuracy isn't one of your biggest concerns - but peened normally is the closer to historically accurate. Specific companies? Hanwei has messy peens, but they do the job. VA is sort of messy peens, but they can be polished a bit to look nice usually. Threaded with a hex nut - I have not had a problem with the Hanwei-Tinker line or the VA ones. If you want a 'beater' sword, I'd 100% recommend peened. Anything that is meant for semi-hard to hard use would be better off there.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2017 18:37:07 GMT
Got it. Thanks Fald.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2017 19:09:06 GMT
The GSOW is hard to beat for the money but I can see where personal preferences can be so specific. Avoid the William Marshall sword. The Albion swords do fine with regular cutting. There are blunts out there for strictly beating things. You can do so with any sword but be prepared for wearing out anything in life. I have found my A&A swords fairly indestructible and cured my pointy issues by graduating the typology. A couple of ATrim and a Del Tin. ![](http://i.imgur.com/s6PgKfE.jpg) The middle sword (a XIIa) is close to the Albion Baron. The Baron is a heavier and sturdier sword than the ATrim but both end up cutting about the same. The Albion stiffer, so a better thruster. If I was in the market to start again, I would consider Valiant but there are a lot of Del Tins I like. I still retain an A&A German Bastard, while letting a couple of others find homes or trades. I have "beat" with most all of the reproductions I've had and only broke the one that had a bad heat treatment. The GSOW reads a lot like my ancient ATrim XIIIa in flex and yes, alignment critical. Wafer thick at the point. Vibrations while cutting can be from a few factors. Sometimes what should be the sweet spot is actually a shocking spot. Whatever you choose, take your time or just buy what makes you itch. My last a one off Del Tin with their 5160 hilt. My favorite beaters are 18th and 19th century items. Nothing quite like the "bonk" my French 1854 dragoon can produce and thrusting galore.
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stormmaster
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Post by stormmaster on Jul 28, 2017 20:17:24 GMT
What's wrong with the William Marshall sword? Mind clarifying?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2017 20:43:21 GMT
What's wrong with the William Marshall sword? Mind clarifying? Hopefully now has a solid pommel and is peened. One could do worse but with the Tinker models out there, not as much a bargain as it was "back in the day". It is all a bit subjective. One can depend on being part of a small collective that own the model. It has always just said "plastic" to me, when the Godfred has always said "weapon" to me. Both are a bit anachronistic bit of just those two, I have seen more happy Godfred owners. The Marshal has a uniqueness to it. I have visited an old version many times as a friend bought one early on. It never shows up at the gatherings anymore (despite being "fixed"). Don't dismiss the large MRL options as well. Nothing wrong with extensive window shopping. I did so for years before buying a sword.
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Post by 28shadow on Jul 29, 2017 3:35:04 GMT
What's wrong with the William Marshall sword? Mind clarifying? Hopefully now has a solid pommel and is peened. One could do worse but with the Tinker models out there, not as much a bargain as it was "back in the day". It is all a bit subjective. One can depend on being part of a small collective that own the model. It has always just said "plastic" to me, when the Godfred has always said "weapon" to me. Both are a bit anachronistic bit of just those two, I have seen more happy Godfred owners. The Marshal has a uniqueness to it. I have visited an old version many times as a friend bought one early on. It never shows up at the gatherings anymore (despite being "fixed"). Don't dismiss the large MRL options as well. Nothing wrong with extensive window shopping. I did so for years before buying a sword. Have a Marshall currently being done up by Wes Beem. Tang is substantial, pommel is peened, keyed, and solid. Good taper on the blade too. Would I have bought it at $300 new? Probably not. I grabbed mine used for $150 and immediately sent it off to Wes, so the final amount invested will be slightly above new but the sword will be much better.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2017 13:35:08 GMT
Edel - Thanks for your detailed experience info. That is a lot of good info to know. The sword in the pic in the middle is very nice.
28 - Yeah, your Marshall sword sounds really nice. The blade and handle looks so good on that sword. Any pics?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2017 14:16:27 GMT
Gus had come along way and started making swords with Tinker back in the late 1990s (sold as Tinker Toys). His first runs as ATrim were rather Spartan. My XIIIa was of those early batches and from a lot sold through Albion back around 2001 when they were in Maryland. Blade polish and finish was less than some felt acceptable but it was all about performance. That XIIIa never got a model number or name but came to be known as the "light" at less than three pounds and the XIIa a modified model 1319 from about the 2003 period. He used to sell the blackened hilts. ![](http://i.imgur.com/YyScDkE.jpg) The GSOW from Hanwei has an even longer grip than these two. The Albion Squire Line Grete Swerd a relative tweener between Chinese and USA or customs. The XIIIa had mastered mats and even very thick cardboard tubes (1/2" wall thickness pallet wrap cores). Circa 2002, friend Tod with an Al Massey basket hilt. You can almost see the tubes ![;)](//storage.forums.net/forum/images/smiley/wink.png) BTW, never let your cutting area get this congested but we were having fun! ![](http://i.imgur.com/5l7Cbf8.jpg) After a period of denial when Tod showed up with a Baron, I have come to accept that is is a better overall sword but man, The Trim just flies! It is tough to decide on the aesthetics and form when window shopping because we always want most of them. One A&A I had at one period was an Edward III blade with Duke of Urbino fittings. Pure awesomeness. The company does do special requests. I bought it second hand and it went back and forth between me and another until he really needed it and ground and rehilted with a longer grip. So, kind of a poor man's Edward III build. ![](http://i.imgur.com/UuQdoVG.jpg) Before (man. the old days. I think I paid $350) A similar build from A&A right now would be closer to a grand. ![](http://i.imgur.com/B0529Zk.jpg) ![](http://i.imgur.com/taRYnjm.jpg) Prices just keep going up, despite the much larger market options these days. Those Kingston Arms offerings are looking pretty good. Happy Hunting
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2017 21:17:14 GMT
Why would some medieval double edged swords have fullers and some would not?
Edel - That Edward III blade in those last pics looks fun.
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Aug 6, 2017 21:35:32 GMT
Lets you play around with weight, stiffness, thickness, robustness of edge, etc.
Narrow fullers let you remove weight (or make the blade thicker, and thus stiffer, at the same weight). If your blade is stiff enough and light enough, you don't need a fuller. If your blade needs to be stiffer, you want either a thicker blade with a fuller or a hollow ground blade (which is essentially a broad fuller on each side of the ridge) with a higher central ridge.
Broad fullers let you do a bit more. Consider a cutting sword with a thin broad blade, like a Viking sword. You can make it with similar weight and thickness with a lenticular cross-section or with a broad fuller. The fullered version is thicker just behind the edge, and the edge with be more strongly supported (more niku, one would say with a katana). The lenticular blade will have a more acute edge angle. The fullered version resists twisting of the blade better.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2017 22:27:50 GMT
Thank you Timo. I think I am starting to understand medieval sword construction....which means even more choices!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2017 9:12:58 GMT
Although, I really like the Albion Great Sword, Valiant Armory War Sword and the Hanwei Tinker Great Sword, I am currently searching for a European forged version of these swords.
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Aug 13, 2017 9:45:54 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2017 9:58:57 GMT
Thanks Timo. Wow, that is beautiful and it comes with a scabbard and belt with custom options for under $500. Don't know shipping yet.
Blade seems a little narrow at base? Maybe I am too picky? Just love the look of the wide blade base of the Albion and Valiant.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2017 22:39:37 GMT
For me, at this time, If I could pick only one medieval sword, it would be the Albion, Squire Line 13th century Great Sword or the higher end version, the Next Generation, Baron. I forgot about their cool layaway program. Its $150 deposit for squire line and $300 for most other lines (for Conan swords they require $500). Whats very cool is, after your deposit, they begin to make your sword. The balance is not due until the sword is completed (9 to 12 months). Therefore, my first medieval sword will be an Albion 13th century Great Sword!!!!! I will update this thread in about a year.
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Post by Verity on Nov 19, 2017 0:42:38 GMT
One thing I am finding out, is the lack of choices of the Oakeshott Type XIIa swords!?! It's also very frustrating to find swords with very nice, wide, long and fullered blades with only a single hand grip!?! When is someone going to expand upon MRLs create your own sword program, to allow for hand and a half to 2 hand grips and XIIa type blades!?! I agree. XIIa is my favorite type and is the most prevalent in historical extant works, but only a handful of large XIIa’s out there. Your example from Albion squire which is their squire line Baron (next gen line)... the next gen Baron blades are what Christian Fletcher bases his Winter Warden on. He hand picks cream-of-the-crop baron blades thanks to his rapport with Albion and does all the cutlery work on the bare blade selected. I LOVE my Winter Warden. BUT. If you want the undisputed master of handling in terms of massive destructive power then you need to find yourself an Angus Trim XIIa.4. My “Blackwater” is a custom of such a thing. It has nearly the same dimensions as your squire line / baron / Winter Warden BUT... handling goes to the XIIa.4 hands down. It is about 2” less blade length and is 2.25” at the base instead of the 2.3” but has less profile taper and so is wider at the end of the fuller than the Baron type blade. Dynamic balance of the Atrim edges out my Winter Warden as well. Not by a mile, as the Baron type swords handle very well, but it does beat it. Keep me posted on your search! I love XIIa’s as Fal can attest to... 😜 I also posted a thread a while back on XIIa and XIIIa type swords and there was a good discussion on their practice and use against armor of the period and we theorized on its military application. Love the XIIa war swords of old! And yes. Albion uses 6150... (no NOT 5160. They are two different steels). Their “blend” is supposedly proprietary but it is AISI 6150. Great steel. But as with all things. More is in the heat treatment.
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