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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2017 5:31:29 GMT
In researching medieval swords, it seems their blades are thin toward the tip? Most large swords seem to be be approx. 5 to 6 mm at the base and with distal taper are approx. 2.5 mm at the tip. 2 mm is the thickness of a machete!?! Do these sword blades bend or chip easily?
My dream sword, the Albion Squire Line Great Sword, has a blade thickness of 6 mm at the base, but is only 2.6 mm at the tip. I have noticed that Darksword Armory's larger swords, tend to be thinner at the base ( approx. 5 mm) than other brands, but have less distal taper and tend to be thicker than other brands, at the tip (approx. 4.4 mm). Does this matter?
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Jul 22, 2017 6:36:23 GMT
In researching medieval swords, it seems their blades are thin toward the tip? Most large swords seem to be be approx. 5 to 6 mm at the base and with distal taper are approx. 2.5 mm at the tip. 2 mm is the thickness of a machete!?! Most swords are thin towards the tip. Especially longer swords, since you don't want excess weight near the tip. 1mm to 2mm isn't unusual for long cutting-oriented swords with broad tips. With pointier tips, moving into cut-and-thrust swords, you find 2mm to 3mm. Emphasising the thrust even more, you have about 3mm to 5mm; these would typically be needle-pointed longswords. On shorter swords, you often find thicker tips than these. Do these sword blades bend or chip easily? Yes, thin tips can be damaged relatively easily. Tips on antique swords are sometimes bent or broken off. My dream sword, the Albion Squire Line Great Sword, has a blade thickness of 6 mm at the base, but is only 2.6 mm at the tip. I have noticed that Darksword Armory's larger swords, tend to be thinner at the base ( approx. 5 mm) than other brands, but have less distal taper and tend to be thicker than other brands, at the tip (approx. 4.4 mm). Does this matter? It matters. A long broad-tipped sword that's 4.4mm thick near the tip is probably a clumsy clunky thing. An excess 2mm of thickness on a 25mm wide blade gives you about an extra 100g/3oz in the last 25cm/10" of blade. You don't want that weight there. Meanwhile, if it's too heavy at the tip, and the base of the blade is thin, the blade can be floppy, and sag a lot under its own weight (when held sideways). Especially when the blade is long and heavy, the base of the blade should be thick so that its stiff enough.
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Post by Faldarin on Jul 22, 2017 13:33:08 GMT
In researching medieval swords, it seems their blades are thin toward the tip? Most large swords seem to be be approx. 5 to 6 mm at the base and with distal taper are approx. 2.5 mm at the tip. This is actually pretty typical for medieval swords. Another thing to keep in mind about the particular sword you're looking at... is that the big 13th century longswords/greatswords aren't made for thrusting. Yes, you can - and yes, it can be effective at times... but these beasts were made for cutting through unarmored targets. The tips are usually somewhat rounded off, and generally that thin as Timo said, to keep from causing the blade undue stress.
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Ifrit
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Post by Ifrit on Jul 22, 2017 21:57:34 GMT
My hanwei gsow is pretty thin at the tip, but it will flex before it chips or bends. Thinner blades, when tempered right, tend to be more springy
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2017 8:01:23 GMT
Timo - Thank you for the detailed info. Your comments explain alot about sword construction fundimentals. Now I understand some of the reasons why Albion is so respected in the industry. Fald - Thanks for specific info about my dream sword. My concern was if I swing it and cut a small green branch will I risk bending the tip since it is so thin.
Djin - I love that sword! See video in this thread of Tinker discussing it. Notice how your great sword has a rounded tip, but Albion's great sword has a narrow shaped tip.
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Ifrit
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Post by Ifrit on Jul 23, 2017 23:00:45 GMT
Yea it's to aid in tip cuts as such a springy sword isn't specialized for thrusting. I been considering pointing it anyway though
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2017 10:21:25 GMT
Want a "beater" medieval sword, since I will only cut air with the Albion great sword that I will aquire. Searched everywhere (SBG Store, SBG vendors, these forums, eBay, Etsy, other sword websites, craigslist nationwide, and google searches). Do not understand why there are such few choices of beater swords with long, wide, sharp point, fuller blades with black hand and a half to 2 hand grips, with metal finish guards and round pommels!?! In fact, I can not find a medieval "beater" that looks like the Albion great sword!?! Why do many nice blades have a single hand grip!?! .....what did a warrior with only a single hand grip sword (no shield, horse or other weapon), do, when he met an adversary with a hand and a half or two hand sword, on the battle field, capable of swinging his sword with two arms instead of just one? ? I find it odd that there is not at least one forge in England cranking out Oakeshott Type swords and distributing them world wide like the Chinese forges do katanas (of course Japan doesn't because of the national treasure issue)!?! ..Therefore, I have narrowed my first medieval sword down to 3. Which by coincidence are all Hanwei Tinker or Hanwei, including: 1. Bastard Sword with fuller - Has everything I like except I wish it was wider at the base. 2. Great Sword - Has everything I like except point is too rounded and grip and scabbard color is not black. 3. Sir William Marshall Sword - Has everything I like except it has single hand grip. Is there a medieval beater I have overlooked? Thanks.
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Post by Jussi Ekholm on Jul 26, 2017 10:41:04 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2017 11:02:39 GMT
Thank you Jussi for providing that information. That is a beautiful sword. It looks a lot like the Hanwei Tinker Bastard sword with fuller.
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Post by Faldarin on Jul 26, 2017 13:01:13 GMT
.....what did a warrior with only a single hand grip sword (no shield, horse or other weapon), do, when he met an adversary with a hand and a half or two hand sword, on the battle field, capable of swinging his sword with two arms instead of just one? ? I imagine this was mostly rhetorical, but they either wouldn't be caught with this sword alone, or it would have been only a backup weapon... a sidearm like a soldier carrying a M1911 to back up their rifle. Otherwise, they would have a shield or buckler to back up the sword. I'd recommend VA to you, but that's approaching the price of the Squire. Check out the VA War Sword . And you can get them in whatever custom color you want.
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Jul 26, 2017 13:25:11 GMT
Why do many nice blades have a single hand grip!?! .....what did a warrior with only a single hand grip sword (no shield, horse or other weapon), do, when he met an adversary with a hand and a half or two hand sword, on the battle field, capable of swinging his sword with two arms instead of just one????? If it happens on the battlefield, he'd already be having a bad day, what with having lost his others weapons and/or shield. Lots of options: he could fight, he could run and flee the battlefield, he could (if ransomable) surrender, he could run to where somebody else on his side could help. More problematic might be off the battlefield, when he isn't expecting any trouble. Maybe some enemy decides to settle an old feud, maybe it's an assassin, maybe a bandit. Running might be an option. Maybe throw the sword and run. Or just fight: wait for the enemy to attack, and parry while closing distance. If close enough, use the free hand to grab or trap the attacker's hilt/arm. Slice and dice. If the attacker's sword is significantly longer, at least he could be thankful the attacker didn't bring a polearm. Or gun/crossbow. Still, less reach is a problem. Make up for it with more skill, or more luck. Pick up rocks, sticks, whatever, and throw them. Two-handed without extra reach isn't a big deal.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2017 14:24:07 GMT
Fald - Thanks for Valiant Armoury link. Yes, I saw it previously, but did not realize until now that, it comes with a scabbard and has custom options and is less than Albions. Nice! ...hmmmmmmm. Maybe get Albion's and VAs and put one in office and prune my trees with the other? .....not anytime soon! Haha!
No, I really don't understand. Why would a standard medieval bladed sword, ever be designed to limit your handling abilities? It seems at the very least, they all would have a hand and half grip to allow for both hands if the need arises. With a single grip, you don't have that option, but your opponent might?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2017 14:30:52 GMT
"If it happens on the battlefield, he'd already be having a bad day, .........he could run and flee the battlefield, ...." "........Running might be an option. Maybe throw the sword and run......." "......Pick up rocks, sticks, whatever, and throw them....." I think I saw all these moves in the Lord of the Rings and or Game of Thrones! Haha!
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AndiTheBarvarian
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Jul 26, 2017 14:33:58 GMT
Hand and a half evolved from the real single handers. In the migration/viking era very few warriors had armor but all had big roundshields and they were better to handle together with a real single hander without crossguard. Later the shields became less broad and longer to protect the legs. The swords became longer and got crossguards. As the blades got longer, you needed a longer grip/pommel counterweight. And tataa... the hand and a half was born. Later when most were armored they throw away their shields and wanted two handed longswords.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2017 14:37:26 GMT
Hand and a half evolved from the real single handers. In the migration/viking era very few warriors had armor but all had big roundshields and they were better to handle together with a real single hander without crossguard. Later the shields became less broad and longer to protect the legs. The swords became longer and got crossguards. As the blades got longer, you needed a longer grip/pommel counterweight. And tataa... the hand and a half was borne. Oh man, I got to find a way to use ...."and tataa" to someone today! Nice!
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Jul 26, 2017 14:38:25 GMT
No, I really don't understand. Why would a standard medieval bladed sword, ever be designed to limit your handling abilities? It seems at the very least, they all would have a hand and half grip to allow for both hands if the need arises. With a single grip, you don't have that option, but your opponent might? With brazil nut, wheel, and lots of Viking pommels, your little finger should be sitting against the pommel, and this helps you move the sword. Also, if your hand fits snugly between pommel and guard, you can hold the sword securely with a relaxed grip. With a longer grip, you lose both of these potential advantages. In addition, a long grip on a one-handed sword is more likely to get in your own way - catch on your own clothing, your own shield. It can also offer a convenient handle for your opponent to control your sword when grappling. So, a hand-and-a-half grip comes with disadvantages. If you're planning to use your weapon two-handed, then you accept those disadvantages. Especially if you're planning to use it two-handed almost all of the time, when those disadvantages largely go away (they're mostly only disadvantages when using it one-handed). If you're not actually planning to use it two-handed, the disadvantages are likely to outweigh the possible just-in-case benefit of being able to use two hands.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2017 14:50:30 GMT
Okay. Yes, when I held a single hand with a big pommel, it felt like an extension​ of my arm, but a two hander feels like I'm holding a pole. Got it. Thanks.
......still need at least a hand and a half cause you never know what's coming to get ya!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2017 15:35:38 GMT
Thanks to another member, I now realize a great source of medieval swords that has been here along....Valiant Armoury (VA). They offer what I wish the SBG Store would offer. Maybe, SBG could team up with VA and offer custom option medieval swords similar to the katana offerings? They offer battle ready, historically accurate medieval sword replicas with custom options and very nice scabbards INCLUDED, for a very competitive price. Their work looks so good, I am now leaning toward their antiqued brown or dark mahogany colors instead of black. I think I may have found my "Sinosword" of medieval swords.haha! Gonna order at least one.
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Post by 28shadow on Jul 27, 2017 15:46:32 GMT
Thanks to another member, I now realize a great source of medieval swords that has been here along....Valiant Armoury (VA). They offer what I wish the SBG Store would offer. Maybe, SBG could team up with VA and offer custom option medieval swords similar to the katana offerings? They offer battle ready, historically accurate medieval sword replicas with custom options and very nice scabbards INCLUDED, for a very competitive price. There work looks so good, I am now leaning toward their antiqued brown color instead of black. I think I may have found my "Sinosword" of medieval swords.haha! Gonna order at least one. I have a customized Malatesta from them. One of the current gems of my collection, the quality of everything is absurd for the price. I also had the first gen Castille, and it was an incredible beast of an arming sword. I imagine it could smash and hack it's way through anything in it's path with brute force. The malatesta on the other hand literally floats and handles superbly.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2017 16:21:23 GMT
Here is a vid of the man himself, SBG owner, Paul, testing the Castile. He notes blade vibration after a strike. Does that mean its too dull and needs sharpening?
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