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Post by seanyx11 on Apr 25, 2017 6:40:16 GMT
Ok, so I recently bought a Ronin Katana Elite S&D and it is pretty much perfect aside from a little extra material removed from the inside of the saya around the koiguchi and the same color is a bit uneven with some whiter spots in places. Well, I figured I'd check the tsuka and it seems to have a small hairline crack on the side and an even bigger one along the edge. Should I try to epoxy this? Or just bite the bullet and send it to Nihonzashi for a new tsuka core, samegawa, and ito?
The blade is in great shape and is a great cutter and the existing tsukaito is very tight with even diamonds, so it would be a shame to have to replace the tsuka core and ito, and the same is kind of janky looking anyway so it'll be replaced as well. Tell me what you guys think, thanks for the help in advance
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Post by Adrian Jordan on Apr 25, 2017 7:25:00 GMT
Can you see exactly how far the cracks go down? Having two of them like that will add to the danger of it coming apart. You could wedge them open a bit, dribble some wood glue(regular Elmers wood glue, not Gorilla glue) into the cracks, making sure to get as much into the cracks as possible, then let it cure. That combined with the fuchi and ito will give you some some protection from further splitting. Another option is to epoxy the tsuka to the nakago. This will pretty well ensure no further damage or a failure, but at the price of being stuck with that set up. Wouldn't be able to remove or replace the kashira, and if you needed a re-wrap it would be more tedious. If you needed to remove it for some reason you'd need to use a hammer and chisel, then grind the rest of the wood and epoxy off.
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Post by connorclarke on Apr 25, 2017 12:24:48 GMT
That tsuka looks real fragile. Thin wood, poor condition, cracks and not assembled well. I wouldn't bother paying another $200-400 for a new one just to put on a elite. Maybe leave it as is??
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Apr 25, 2017 13:10:36 GMT
It would have been better if the same wrapped the wood rather than the cheaper, and weaker panels. I don’t think that you could go wrong attempting to do an epoxy repair. Another approach would be to use gap filling CA glue. Make sure it’s “gap filling”. This will fill the crack better than regular CA. In either case I would keep an eye open to make sure the cracks don’t progress.
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Post by seanyx11 on Apr 26, 2017 2:25:11 GMT
Thanks for the replies guys...
@ Adrian Jordan - The cracks do not go down far at all. You can kind of see how far in a couple of the pictures with the flash. I definitely do not want to epoxy the tsuka to the nakago, as this is just too permanent for someone like me that likes to tinker with things.
@ Connorclarke - I agree. It looks pretty bad, but I think a lot of it is glue that was used to seal the 2 halves of the tsuka and they used too much near the fuchi. Paying another several hundred dollars on a $450 sword seems silly, however, its not really a $450 sword, its an $850 sword. The blade alone is worth the $450 IMO. Either way, I'm pretty bummed about it, as this sword is otherwise awesome. It cuts great and I never would've known it was cracked had I not disassembled it.
@ pgandy - Yes, if it was a full samegawa wrap, I'd feel a little better about the structural integrity. I've never used CA glue or epoxy on anything, but I can't imagine its too complicated.
I guess the question now would be, what kind of glue? I have some Elmers Max wood glue. I don't have any epoxy or CA glue, though I can get some easily enough. I definitely don't want to have to do it twice. Any suggestions on a specific type or brand of epoxy for this type of repair?
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Post by Adrian Jordan on Apr 26, 2017 2:43:49 GMT
I've used the Elmer's with success. You need to make sure that it is standard, as some glue expands(like the Gorilla glue). After it's cured, Elmer's and other comparable wood glue is supposed to create a bond that is actually stronger than the wood around it.
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Post by seanyx11 on Apr 26, 2017 3:00:31 GMT
I've actually got some Elmers Max Wood Glue, which is pretty much the same as the regular stuff except its waterproof and you can paint/stain/sand it as well. I assume this would work? The problem is keeping it from dripping down into the tsuka, as it takes quite a while to dry. The crack on the long side (w/ samegawa) is very small and should be pretty easy to fill in...its the bigger one on the short side that is going to take a bit more glue and possibly a couple of applications to fill in completely.
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Post by Adrian Jordan on Apr 26, 2017 3:49:51 GMT
Yes, I believe so.
I got a couple of large cracks in a tsuka. I slightly opened them with finger pressure, and squeezed the glue in a bit at a time, packing it in with a toothpick. I was able to avoid spillage by not trying to put it all in at once. I used an adjustable pressure clamp put some light pressure on during curing. I did one crack at a time over a couple of days.
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Post by William Swiger on Apr 26, 2017 17:19:44 GMT
Usually on most katana I have received with larger cracks, I just glue the whole tsuka on and forget about it. If the blade is special, you can try to fix just the tsuka. I think I just permanently glued the tsuka on my Ronin Elite S&D. It had a couple of minor cracks.
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Post by Verity on Apr 26, 2017 17:52:21 GMT
That is a bit disappointing to see on a Ronin Elite...
Glue the heck out of it. :)
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Post by William Swiger on Apr 26, 2017 18:06:10 GMT
Yeah but is a S&D and around 50% off. ;-)
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Post by Verity on Apr 26, 2017 18:23:49 GMT
Totally get that, but still....
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Post by seanyx11 on Apr 26, 2017 19:12:03 GMT
I know, I'm pretty disappointed that the tsuka is in such bad shape as well. Although it's a S&D, I'm pretty sure they don't remove the tsuka to check for cracks. So, if this sword didn't have the discolored samegawa and too much material missing from the koiguchi area of the saya, it probably would've been sold as a normal full-priced elite. This is just speculation of course, but I'm betting this is the case.
They say in the description for the S&D swords that they will still be totally functional, with no safety issues with using the sword for cutting. So, cracks in the tsuka would qualify as unsafe IMHO, but since it's an "as is" item, I can't exactly get a replacement. Plus, they're all slightly different, so you can't get the same sword anyway. Either way, I think the blade and saya are well worth $450, so I'm ok with it.
Just to be clear, I'm not bad mouthing Ronin katana here at all. My first sword was a Ronin elite and it is phenomenal with no problems at all. As well as a dojo pro wakizashi, tanto & S&D katana. This S&D elite is the only one with an issue like this. I've actually just ordered a replacement dojo pro tsuka from their website, for only $56 shipped. So, I'll try to glue the cracks up and if it works, great, I'll have an extra tsuka...if not, I'll get the new tsuka core re-wrapped and put it on. I will have some questions on drilling the holes properly and getting them in the right place, but we'll cross that bridge when we get to it.
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Apr 26, 2017 21:53:06 GMT
Thanks for the replies guys... @ pgandy - Yes, if it was a full samegawa wrap, I'd feel a little better about the structural integrity. I've never used CA glue or epoxy on anything, but I can't imagine its too complicated. I guess the question now would be, what kind of glue? I have some Elmers Max wood glue. I don't have any epoxy or CA glue, though I can get some easily enough. I definitely don't want to have to do it twice. Any suggestions on a specific type or brand of epoxy for this type of repair? CA glue is a class or generic name that is sold under a number of names, super glue, instant glue, krazy glue, super bonder, la gotita, amongst others. There is nothing magical about using it, but would strongly suggest that you make a few practice tries first as it is fast trying and it’s possible to glue your fingers together or you to your work. Making a wild guest I’d say less than 10 seconds on that crack and it will be dry. If that isn’t fast enough apply a CA accelerator for immediate drying. The accelerator comes in spray or liquid form. I’ve use only the liquid applying with a drop on the end of a toothpick. CA glue has very low surface tension and will work its way into a hair line crack. However, both sides of the desired bond must be touching, that is why I suggested gap filling as the two sides do not need to be touching, that is having a small gap. A trick to get around this is to fill the gap with baking soda and then apply the glue. Whatever you decide to use here’s wishing you success. Below are two links to glue and accelerator. I really don’t think the accelerator is necessary in your case, however. www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=ca+gap+filling+glue&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Aca+gap+filling+glue www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_c_1_8?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=ca+glue+accelerator&sprefix=ca+glue+%2Caps%2C222&crid=I2NWYW23LUNJ&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Aca+glue+accelerator
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Post by seanyx11 on Apr 27, 2017 2:46:39 GMT
Ahh yes, super glue. I've super glued my fingers together before as a kid, and as a matter of fact almost did it recently gluing a broken piece from a sword stand I don't have gap filling though, but I think the small crack on the long side of the tsuka is small enough to use super glue on. The bigger crack I'll probably just use some wood glue on and see how that goes. Though I do like the idea of the gap filling super glue, since it dries so quickly, I don't have to worry about waiting for it to cure and finding that it dripped out of the crack or something.
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Post by johnbu on Apr 30, 2017 3:15:31 GMT
Crack filling CA does NOT dry fast. Unless you use an accelerator .
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Post by LG Martial Arts on Apr 30, 2017 23:28:02 GMT
One other thing you could do is having a new tsuka made by one of our forum members like frankthebunny or anyone else with experience making them.
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asanatheist
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Post by asanatheist on May 4, 2017 0:51:29 GMT
This is definitely NOT functional.
It's rather surprising considering it's the Elite series.
Have you reached out to Ronin Katana?
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Post by seanyx11 on May 4, 2017 6:39:46 GMT
Unfortunately, cottontail customs is not taking on any new tsuka core work right now so they are out for making a new tsuka for me.
As far as reaching out to Ronin katana, I have not. It states very clearly in the description that the S&D swords are "AS IS" and are not returnable or refundable. Though, I agree, this is definitely not a normal "scratch or dent" either. Especially, for an Elite sword which should not have such a major problem regardless of being scratch & dent or not. I honestly didn't think it was even possible to get any kind of compensation/refund for a S&D sword, so I haven't asked.
Do you think it's worth asking? I mean, the blade is totally fine and probably worth the $450 I paid anyway, so I don't want to be greedy here. Though, it does seem wrong to have such a fatal flaw in the construction of the tsuka.
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Post by LeFaust on May 4, 2017 11:30:35 GMT
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