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Post by seanyx11 on May 5, 2017 3:25:50 GMT
Yeah, I tried that and the Dojo Pro tsuka is almost 2 inches longer than the elite. So, $56 down the drain on that one. But, that one is on me, I shouldn't have assumed that it would bit on both swords, oh well you live and learn I guess. I did ask Ronin about the cracked tsuka though and to make a long, sarcastic story short...I was told that I got a $400 discount because the sword had issues, also that I paid less than what they charge for an elite bare blade, also that the sword is still totally usable with the cracked tsuka as long as I use it for its intended use of cutting mats (no wood or tree chopping)...and my personal favorite, get a bottle of wood glue
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Post by LeFaust on May 5, 2017 19:27:11 GMT
That's surprising and disappointing to say the least, considering they have such a great reputation and are highly praised on this forum.
I dont consider a cracked tsuka safe and their description only says dents,dings, chips or rust. Nothing about cracked tsuka. Again very disappoint response
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Post by zabazagobo on May 5, 2017 19:32:00 GMT
That's a pretty disappointing (although predictable) response. I wouldn't consider a cracked tsuka like that 'safe for regular use' out of the box, but hopefully you can find a way to patch it together. Maybe contact Nihonzashi, I know they offer a variety of tsuka services, so they may be able to make you a new tsuka altogether. I've attached a link below to their tsuka customization page, hope it may be of some help. www.nihonzashi.com/sword_customization_handle.aspx
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Post by seanyx11 on May 8, 2017 17:11:09 GMT
@ LeFaust - yeah, that's just what I was thinking myself. I was one of those people praising Ronin for their swords, not to say they are bad swords, quite the opposite. But, as far as this particular situation is concerned, I think they missed the mark. I would agree that a cracked tsuka isn't safe, but I'm no expert and I was told otherwise. @ zabazagobo - I've actually been thinking of having nihonzashi make a new core anyway, so thanks for the recommendation though I've since glued the crack and reassembled the sword, so I guess we'll see if it holds up or not. If not, then it seems a new core from nihonzashi is what I'll end up doing I guess.
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Post by connorclarke on May 9, 2017 1:54:33 GMT
Yo dude, you got a $400 discount and the cracked tsuka is perfectly safe, even for cutting. Erm no, a $400 sword shouldn't have issues like that either and no, I wouldn't use that thing for iai practice either.
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Post by zabazagobo on May 9, 2017 18:03:45 GMT
You dude, you got a $400 discount and the cracked tsuka is perfectly safe, even for cutting. Erm no, a $400 sword shouldn't have issues like that either and no, I wouldn't use that thing for iai practice either. 'Yeah man, you'll have no problem following through on cuts because the blade just won't stop' lol. Now for some reason I feel like playing God of War again...
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Post by seanyx11 on May 10, 2017 2:59:42 GMT
Yo dude, you got a $400 discount and the cracked tsuka is perfectly safe, even for cutting. Erm no, a $400 sword shouldn't have issues like that either and no, I wouldn't use that thing for iai practice either. My thoughts exactly...I was told that "I was making a pretty large assumption that a cracked tsuka makes the sword unusable". Yeah, of course its still "usable", I can still "use" a car with a flat tire, but would I want to? Probably not lol.
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Post by connorclarke on May 10, 2017 11:47:57 GMT
Yo dude, you got a $400 discount and the cracked tsuka is perfectly safe, even for cutting. Erm no, a $400 sword shouldn't have issues like that either and no, I wouldn't use that thing for iai practice either. My thoughts exactly...I was told that "I was making a pretty large assumption that a cracked tsuka makes the sword unusable". Yeah, of course its still "usable", I can still "use" a car with a flat tire, but would I want to? Probably not lol. TBH with ya, I would put money on that the majority of there swords have cracked tsuka's anyway. Based on the owner's response (doesn't sound like he's too bothered about it) and the poor wood they use and assembly, they all look like they will crack eventually. Same with the saya, the ronins i picked up had same issues and the saya was filled with tons of wax! Now everytime I sheath and draw the sword it makes the loudest, nastiest, scrapping sound in the world...definitely not acceptable especially if you are practicing martial arts with these...
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Post by treeslicer on May 10, 2017 15:33:41 GMT
ROFL! Sounds like time to cut some magnolia, buy some top quality rayskin and some leather for ito, maybe buy some vintage/antique fuchigashira (plus possibly a matching tsuba), and get to work.....
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Post by connorclarke on May 10, 2017 19:26:49 GMT
ROFL! Sounds like time to cut some magnolia, buy some top quality rayskin and some leather for ito, maybe buy some vintage/antique fuchigashira (plus possibly a matching tsuba), and get to work..... Yeah and a new saya. Should put you back at least $500 😠
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Post by Ronin Katana on May 10, 2017 20:05:14 GMT
My thoughts exactly...I was told that "I was making a pretty large assumption that a cracked tsuka makes the sword unusable". Yeah, of course its still "usable", I can still "use" a car with a flat tire, but would I want to? Probably not lol. TBH with ya, I would put money on that the majority of there swords have cracked tsuka's anyway. Based on the owner's response (doesn't sound like he's too bothered about it) and the poor wood they use and assembly, they all look like they will crack eventually. Same with the saya, the ronins i picked up had same issues and the saya was filled with tons of wax! Now everytime I sheath and draw the sword it makes the loudest, nastiest, scrapping sound in the world...definitely not acceptable especially if you are practicing martial arts with these... Connorclarke - There is commenting on a thread, and then there is vendor bashing, which is what you have been doing. If you have some experience with tsuka from Ronin failing, please post the pictures or video. Given that we have sold 10's of thousands of katana over the years, and there is a decided lack of such pictures and videos, you are being both irrational and an alarmist. As you are insisting that a sword with a cracked tsuka is not safe for any type of use, and that all of our tsuka will crack, you've stated in a nut shell that Ronin is selling unsafe swords to everyone. I'm not okay with that. The mods are not going to be okay with that, and the owner of this site is not going to be okay with it. Unlike you, Ronin has destroyed dozens of katana in testing and published the results. No other sword company has done more than we have. Not one. Ronin scrapped an entire Euro line when we decided there was a risk a weld could fail losing 10's of thousands in the process and resulting in retooling everything so they could be peened. We have a proven track record of doing what needs to be done to create and sell a safe product. With regards to this sword, a crack is certainly not something pleasant to look. Does that mean the sword is going to fail? Not at all. It would take abuse to bring that tsuka to failure, which is what was pointed out to the OP via email. You can disagree with that all you want, but you will be doing so based on opinion and not fact. You have probably never had one break in your life, while I have broken dozens of them and sent even more out to be taken to complete failure and published the results. No one who could possibly post on this board is going to have more experience with what it takes to bring a katana to failure than I do. It's very unlikely that you, or most of the people posting in and reading this thread even know how to properly dismantle a katana. Banging on the tsuba with a hammer is more likely to crack it than putting it on in the first place. A topic which has been discussed since the golden age of SFI. Further, you seem to have a lack of understanding on what the purpose of the wrap, fuchi, and kashira are in keeping the tsuka from coming apart. With regards to cheap wood, I suggest you read the blog Ronin puts out on sword making. Plenty of pictures of saya and tsuka making as well as videos of the process. Perhaps you would understand that the wax is in the saya to prevent rust and help the wood acclimatize. A step Ronin pays for, that other companies do not bother with. If you really feel the need to Ronin bash due to cheap wood, you are going to need to expand that to 95% of the companies selling katana, because all that wood comes from the same place. That includes all of the ebay dealers, Musashi, Munetoshi, Ryumon, Mashahiro, United Cutlery and more. When you are done come back here, edit your post, and apologize. Mods, please do not lock or edit this thread. Connorclarke deserves to have an opportunity to learn from his mistake and correct it.
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Post by seanyx11 on May 10, 2017 21:58:23 GMT
Edit: Nevermind lol
It seems this has turned into an issue...
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Post by William Swiger on May 10, 2017 22:17:41 GMT
I am not taking sides but people who pay full price for a sword can point out all the problem areas that they encounter. If you are buying a sword as a second or S&D, you really have no basis to blast the maker or owner. They are admitting the sword is not within the specs of a full priced model.
For my personal opinion, a cracked tsuka will not be a certain failure of a katana. The making of a Japanese style sword has the tsuka, tsuka wrap, fuchi and the bamboo pegs as a fail safe against the handle coming apart. People who say a crack in the tsuka is a definite failure are not right IMO. I have received a few katana with a crack in the tsuba and just expoxied the handle on the darn thing.
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Post by connorclarke on May 10, 2017 22:36:13 GMT
TBH with ya, I would put money on that the majority of there swords have cracked tsuka's anyway. Based on the owner's response (doesn't sound like he's too bothered about it) and the poor wood they use and assembly, they all look like they will crack eventually. Same with the saya, the ronins i picked up had same issues and the saya was filled with tons of wax! Now everytime I sheath and draw the sword it makes the loudest, nastiest, scrapping sound in the world...definitely not acceptable especially if you are practicing martial arts with these... Connorclarke - There is commenting on a thread, and then there is vendor bashing, which is what you have been doing. If you have some experience with tsuka from Ronin failing, please post the pictures or video. Given that we have sold 10's of thousands of katana over the years, and there is a decided lack of such pictures and videos, you are being both irrational and an alarmist. As you are insisting that a sword with a cracked tsuka is not safe for any type of use, and that all of our tsuka will crack, you've stated in a nut shell that Ronin is selling unsafe swords to everyone. I'm not okay with that. The mods are not going to be okay with that, and the owner of this site is not going to be okay with it. Unlike you, Ronin has destroyed dozens of katana in testing and published the results. No other sword company has done more than we have. Not one. Ronin scrapped an entire Euro line when we decided there was a risk a weld could fail losing 10's of thousands in the process and resulting in retooling everything so they could be peened. We have a proven track record of doing what needs to be done to create and sell a safe product. With regards to this sword, a crack is certainly not something pleasant to look. Does that mean the sword is going to fail? Not at all. It would take abuse to bring that tsuka to failure, which is what was pointed out to the OP via email. You can disagree with that all you want, but you will be doing so based on opinion and not fact. You have probably never had one break in your life, while I have broken dozens of them and sent even more out to be taken to complete failure and published the results. No one who could possibly post on this board is going to have more experience with what it takes to bring a katana to failure than I do. It's very unlikely that you, or most of the people posting in and reading this thread even know how to properly dismantle a katana. Banging on the tsuba with a hammer is more likely to crack it than putting it on in the first place. A topic which has been discussed since the golden age of SFI. Further, you seem to have a lack of understanding on what the purpose of the wrap, fuchi, and kashira are in keeping the tsuka from coming apart. With regards to cheap wood, I suggest you read the blog Ronin puts out on sword making. Plenty of pictures of saya and tsuka making as well as videos of the process. Perhaps you would understand that the wax is in the saya to prevent rust and help the wood acclimatize. A step Ronin pays for, that other companies do not bother with. If you really feel the need to Ronin bash due to cheap wood, you are going to need to expand that to 95% of the companies selling katana, because all that wood comes from the same place. That includes all of the ebay dealers, Musashi, Munetoshi, Ryumon, Mashahiro, United Cutlery and more. When you are done come back here, edit your post, and apologize. Mods, please do not lock or edit this thread. Connorclarke deserves to have an opportunity to learn from his mistake and correct it. OK, to let me first put what I do know across. I have several years experience in Iaido, have bought many katana's from many different companies, Hanwei, Huawei, Cold Steel, various different Longquan forges, Kaneie and yours, Ronin Katana. I also have been a semi-professional blade and sword sharpener done by whetstone with 10 years prior training. So I think I know how to disassemble a katana properly first of, but doing so on a production katana is a little more difficult due having pre-assembled parts fitted to the blade, but I use a wooden block and rubber hammer to remove extremely tight and ill fitted tsuka. I think that is a moot point anyway but well, you brought that up. Now let me try and explain some issues and concerns I have with the wood used. You cannot say that the wood used by yourselves is the same as what another company uses such as Hanwei. It's quite simple to see if you compare there wood with yours, different colour, hardness, grain pattern for example. You can even request different wood for the tsuka and saya from eBay forges based out of Longquan, they even advertise it. Now what you say is interesting about having wax inside the saya. You said that it is to prevent rust on the blade and help the wood acclimatize? I can understand maybe that it would stop rust but that much is unnecessary that has clogged up the saya to the amount I've found it to be. Helping the wood acclimatize is interesting though. I have asked other members who have been on SBG for years about this and from what I understand, that this may be done to speed up the process as it generally takes a few weeks for it to be done naturally. I understand as a business it might be quicker to wax inside the saya, but from the products I have bought of yours it has turned into a problem. The problem is that the wood has dried once the wax was removed from repeated Iai practice and has now set and left a dry, solid residue inside the saya that scrapes and grinds the blade. As far as perspective goes we differ. Your view is a durable blade that can be abused. My perspective is blades that are well balanced, aesthetically beautiful and cut efficiently based on having proper technique. Having crisp lines, shaping and geometry. So I'm not personally a fan of heavier, beefier swords that can be abused because I don't believe pure horsepower is the be all and end all. And I'm certainly not into cutting other swords in half, I just find that distasteful for my preference. Sorry to hear that you found my critique offensive, I agree that there is no need to have moderators involved here. If you find what I have said to be untrue then please go ahead and refute the issues I raised without prejudice.
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Post by connorclarke on May 10, 2017 22:38:45 GMT
I a not taking sides but people who pay full price for a sword can point out all the problem areas that they encounter. If you are buying a sword as a second or S&D, you really have no basis to blast the maker or owner. They are admitting the sword is not within the specs of a full priced model. For my personal opinion, a cracked tsuka will not be a certain failure of a katana. The making of a Japanese style sword has the tsuka, tsuka wrap, fuchi and the bamboo pegs as a fail safe against the handle coming apart. People who say a crack in the tsuka is a definite failure are not right IMO. I have received a few katana with a crack in the tsuba and just expoxied the handle on the darn thing. Right, and now that would be a problem as far as disassembly goes 😂
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Post by William Swiger on May 10, 2017 23:05:46 GMT
If you buy a second model, there will be something that will make it less than a full priced model. Expectations will be the sword is listed at a steep discount due to it not meeting the standard for the sword at regular price. To hold a sword to the normal standards of a full price model when sold as a seconds model with some deficiencies is not fair to the seller. The sword is being sold as a seconds model for a reason.
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Post by Ronin Katana on May 11, 2017 0:02:48 GMT
Connorclarke you weren't commenting on anything, you were bashing Ronin. I see no apology at all, but didn't expect one. I wanted to give you the opportunity however. Instead, you've decided to dig in and try to come off as knowing more about how swords are made in China than I do.
Lets get started....
"You cannot say that the wood used by yourselves is the same as what another company uses such as Hanwei." I didn't say that. You said that.
I said "If you really feel the need to Ronin bash due to cheap wood, you are going to need to expand that to 95% of the companies selling katana, because all that wood comes from the same place. That includes all of the ebay dealers, Musashi, Munetoshi, Ryumon, Mashahiro, United Cutlery and more." Again, I am pretty sure I am correct, but feel free to educate me.
Cracked tsuka on Ronins. Didn't see you address the elephant in the room. You are claiming you would wager the majority are cracked. Okay, I will take that bet. If I am wrong, I will send you an elite of your choice. If you are wrong, you apologize and stop posting nonsense you are obviously making up about sword companies. Ronin, DSA, Hanwei. All of them.
Here's exactly what you said, "TBH with ya, I would put money on that the majority of there swords have cracked tsuka's anyway. Based on the owner's response (doesn't sound like he's too bothered about it) and the poor wood they use and assembly, they all look like they will crack eventually."
Too keep the math easy, I am going to keep my numbers confined to sales at SBG. There are thousands of them. For the purposes of the bet however, I am going to say 500 swords total. That would mean you need to go find threads and pics with 251 cracked Ronin tsukas in them. Keep in mind, those are just SBG sales. High odds if I have sold them a dangerous sword, they are going to post about it here. How much time do you need? Google is pretty quick. My response to a search was almost instant.
Here is where I am pretty confident. If a problem as massive as you claim, involving millions of dollars worth of swords was out there, you will be able to find hundreds of threads right? Please start linking them. You can search Ronin, dojo pro, Hanzo Steel, Forge Direct, Project X, Hammer Forged. Those are all produced by Ronin. Yeah, it's a pretty big company, which is why I am surprised that I am completely oblivious to your claims. Wow. I feel really stupid.
Honestly, I will usually just ignore guys like you, but in this case, you have my full attention. Ronin has millions of views on our destruction and how it's made videos. You have 202 posts on a message board. Please, school me. Make me look like the complete and utter fool you are claiming I am.
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Post by connorclarke on May 11, 2017 0:19:15 GMT
Well I'm not trying to make you look like a fool so please don't take it personally when I am critiquing something. Cracked tsuka's is a common problem across the board. You should know that so please don't make it seem that it is never the case with your product. It is such a common problem on production blades that the vast majority need are cracked or going to end up be with use. It's simply a case of the quality of the wood and how it's treated beforehand, as well as having to hammer them on to the blade. That is just a case in production blades. We would all love having tsuka's made to fit but that just wouldn't happen right? Now the issue of wood quality again comes down to my own examinations and even the OP's picture. The quality doesn't look very good to me, please don't get offended by me critiquing that but it looks discoloured, quite thin and has cracks in it. Understand this concerns me and is not an attack on you. I did make the point that you may not care and yes, I understand why you would be upset at me for saying so and I apologize. Would you be making steps in the future to improve upon the concerns I have raised? It sure would help alleviate the problems I have with this issue, though I'm sure it is such a common problem it may not be able to be resolved.
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Post by Adrian Jordan on May 11, 2017 0:25:42 GMT
I am absolutely willing to allow this thread to continue provided that everybody remains civil and constructive.
It's not often that actual owners of companies drop in. You don't see Paul Chen(either of them) or Jacky of Huawei or Yao or Ron Chen coming by. Now would be a good chance to ask some questions while he's on the line.
Again, everybody please keep it at least civil, if not respectful.
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Post by LeFaust on May 11, 2017 0:29:30 GMT
I think you should cool off a bit. Yes you have every right as a business owner to defend your product and yes his earlier statement is inflammatory, however you are just going a tiny bit overboard in my opinion ( however much that's worth lol) You are kind of being condescending. So the guy hasn't sold thousands of swords, so what? That doesn't mean he talk about some problems about your swords. So the guy has only 202 posts and you have millions of fans, so what? Again doesn't mean he cant state his opinion. You are claiming he's making you into a fool. I don't see that at all. No need to be so angry. EDIT: By the way i'm not supporting either side. I don't know connorclarke. I have ronin products and would recommend them. I just think there's no need for such a heated post.
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