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Post by treeslicer on May 11, 2017 1:07:19 GMT
ROFL! Sounds like time to cut some magnolia, buy some top quality rayskin and some leather for ito, maybe buy some vintage/antique fuchigashira (plus possibly a matching tsuba), and get to work..... Yeah and a new saya. Should put you back at least $500 😠 Not me it wouldn't. I have the tools and sources of wood and horn. Done right, making a new tsuka implies a new saya, anyway.
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Post by Verity on May 11, 2017 1:09:40 GMT
If you want to match the curvature, yep. Which is how it should be done when done "right".
Same circumference and dimensions and continuation of the curve.
A proper set of koshirae is a beautiful thing indeed. And a large undertaking...
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Post by connorclarke on May 11, 2017 1:13:57 GMT
Yeah and a new saya. Should put you back at least $500 😠 Not me it wouldn't. I have the tools and sources of wood and horn. Done right, making a new tsuka implies a new saya, anyway. Fancy hooking me up sometime?
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Post by Ronin Katana on May 11, 2017 1:14:49 GMT
Again, you are not critiquing. You are bashing.
"TBH with ya, I would put money on that the majority of there swords have cracked tsuka's anyway. Based on the owner's response (doesn't sound like he's too bothered about it) and the poor wood they use and assembly, they all look like they will crack eventually."
That's a bash. Instead of apologizing, you are trying to patronize me. Google indexes crap like this, and frankly, I am tired of seeing people like you lie and not get called out on it.
My suggestion would be to go up, edit your post, apologize, and not do it again. If you want to keep digging your hole, have at it. I have asked the mods, and Paul not to close or edit this. You can keep dodging, or you can man up, admit that you were bashing, delete it, and move on.
If you want to stick to your assertion that the majority of Ronin's tsukas have cracks, start posting proof. Don't dance around the issue for pages on end. You said something, and I called you on it. Link away.
Lefaust - I have no problem with people stating opinions. I have a problem with bashing. There is a difference.
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Post by connorclarke on May 11, 2017 1:39:09 GMT
Again, you are not critiquing. You are bashing. "TBH with ya, I would put money on that the majority of there swords have cracked tsuka's anyway. Based on the owner's response (doesn't sound like he's too bothered about it) and the poor wood they use and assembly, they all look like they will crack eventually." That's a bash. Instead of apologizing, you are trying to patronize me. Google indexes crap like this, and frankly, I am tired of seeing people like you lie and not get called out on it. My suggestion would be to go up, edit your post, apologize, and not do it again. If you want to keep digging your hole, have at it. I have asked the mods, and Paul not to close or edit this. You can keep dodging, or you can man up, admit that you were bashing, delete it, and move on. If you want to stick to your assertion that the majority of Ronin's tsukas have cracks, start posting proof. Don't dance around the issue for pages on end. You said something, and I called you on it. Link away. Lefaust - I have no problem with people stating opinions. I have a problem with bashing. There is a difference. Maybe you misunderstood and thought I was exclusively saying that only your swords have cracked tsuka. No sir, I have seen cracked tsuka on alot of swords production swords. I'm sure others will agree and know that this is fairly common knowledge, yours included. To deny that and say you are the golden goose and don't have this problem, I'm sorry but I have to disagree. Why? Because I own several of your swords and dozens of others from different companies. Hence, why the majority of the blades I own have had to have new tsuka's made for them. Again, not a direct attack on you only that you have this issue. I'm sure me and tons of people who have had to have new tsuka's made are liars.
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Post by Ronin Katana on May 11, 2017 2:01:40 GMT
Maybe you misunderstood and thought I was exclusively saying that only your swords have cracked tsuka. No sir, I have seen cracked tsuka on alot of swords production swords. I'm sure others will agree and know that this is fairly common knowledge, yours included. To deny that and say you are the golden goose and don't have this problem, I'm sorry but I have to disagree. Why? Because I own several of your swords and dozens of others from different companies. Hence, why the majority of the blades I own have had to have new tsuka's made for them. Again, not a direct attack on you only that you have this issue. I'm sure me and tons of people who have had to have new tsuka's made are liars. I did not misunderstand you. No one reading this misunderstood you. Read your own quote. TBH with ya, I would put money on that the majority of there swords have cracked tsuka's anyway. Based on the owner's response (doesn't sound like he's too bothered about it) and the poor wood they use and assembly, they all look like they will crack eventually. Same with the saya, the ronins i picked up had same issues and the saya was filled with tons of wax! Now everytime I sheath and draw the sword it makes the loudest, nastiest, scrapping sound in the world...definitely not acceptable especially if you are practicing martial arts with these... That's a bash. You directly said "I would put money on that the majority of there (you meant their, meaning Ronin) have cracked tsuka's" Your words. You have no idea if that statement is true or not. Instead of doing a Google search and trying to back it up, you respond with "Maybe you misunderstood.." and continue trying to bash. What is wrong with you? I am not going to argue further. There is no point. You had an opportunity to correct the statement and delete the post, and you refused. Mods, do what you will. You are all saints putting up with stuff like this.
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Post by connorclarke on May 11, 2017 2:37:09 GMT
Maybe you misunderstood and thought I was exclusively saying that only your swords have cracked tsuka. No sir, I have seen cracked tsuka on alot of swords production swords. I'm sure others will agree and know that this is fairly common knowledge, yours included. To deny that and say you are the golden goose and don't have this problem, I'm sorry but I have to disagree. Why? Because I own several of your swords and dozens of others from different companies. Hence, why the majority of the blades I own have had to have new tsuka's made for them. Again, not a direct attack on you only that you have this issue. I'm sure me and tons of people who have had to have new tsuka's made are liars. I did not misunderstand you. No one reading this misunderstood you. Read your own quote. TBH with ya, I would put money on that the majority of there swords have cracked tsuka's anyway. Based on the owner's response (doesn't sound like he's too bothered about it) and the poor wood they use and assembly, they all look like they will crack eventually. Same with the saya, the ronins i picked up had same issues and the saya was filled with tons of wax! Now everytime I sheath and draw the sword it makes the loudest, nastiest, scrapping sound in the world...definitely not acceptable especially if you are practicing martial arts with these... That's a bash. You directly said "I would put money on that the majority of there (you meant their, meaning Ronin) have cracked tsuka's" Your words. You have no idea if that statement is true or not. Instead of doing a Google search and trying to back it up, you respond with "Maybe you misunderstood.." and continue trying to bash. What is wrong with you? I am not going to argue further. There is no point. You had an opportunity to correct the statement and delete the post, and you refused. Mods, do what you will. You are all saints putting up with stuff like this. No sir, you are being unreasonable when you jumped to conclusions and assumed I was making a direct statement that 'only Ronin katana swords have cracked tsuka's'. That's not what I said. But okay let's say I did say that the vast majority have cracked tsuka. There is no way for me to prove that the same way there is no way for you to prove that there isn't. However, based on the evidence on how the wood is treated, assembled on the blade and people's testimonies from having examined there own tsuka themselves, the amount of evidence points to a majority do have cracks. Even our global moderator has said so himself, and unfortunately has had to permanently epoxy his tsuka to the tang.
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Post by connorclarke on May 11, 2017 2:42:46 GMT
Let me end though by saying fine, the blade in question was a scratch and dent piece with a reduced price. So I accept that the problems raised can be excused because the piece was advertised as having some problems hence the discount. I don't have a problem with that so I guess the issue raised is excusable.
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Post by treeslicer on May 11, 2017 4:04:23 GMT
If you want to match the curvature, yep. Which is how it should be done when done "right". Same circumference and dimensions and continuation of the curve. A proper set of koshirae is a beautiful thing indeed. And a large undertaking... There are "how-to" instructions of varying quality available on line. I was noting that the traditional method produces a continuous wooden piece (sliced longitudinally in half, and inletted inside for the sword to fit), then cuts it apart at where the tsuka ends and the saya starts. Doing it that way takes a while, and much care, for sure, but it isn't really any worse than carving a fancy gunstock, IMHO.
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Post by seanyx11 on May 11, 2017 4:50:54 GMT
I have a question for Ronin Katana. I asked twice in our email whether or not a cracked tsuka is to be expected as part of the "Scratch & Dent" list of things that makes them a "Scratch & Dent", and I never got an answer. I just want to know as a customer, and I imagine that most people buying S&D swords would want to know, if a cracked tsuka is considered S&D. And for the record, I have not ONCE asked for a refund or anything like that, because it is a very good deal at $450 for this sword. However, I'm pretty sure no one thought that a cracked tsuka was part of the S&D list of things that could potentially be wrong. If I've misunderstood what the definition of S&D means, then I apologize, just want to know what to expect, that's all. And btw, its kind of hard to get upset about people making broad, sweeping generalizations about your product, when you, in fact, made a huge sweeping generalization about "everyone reading this thread" (like we're all idiots) probably doesn't know how to properly disassemble a katana. And I quote, "It's very unlikely that you, or most of the people posting in and reading this thread even know how to properly dismantle a katana. Banging on the tsuba with a hammer is more likely to crack it than putting it on in the first place." I imagine this was aimed at me, since I'm the one that started this whole dumpster fire of a thread. And before you say it, I have 60 some odd posts on a forum and know very little about katana and have said as much numerous times, however, that doesn't mean I can't read and learn like a normal person. Dismantling a katana properly is not exactly rocket science. For the record, this is what I use to disassemble katana: All I wanted to do was find out what people recommended for fixing the tsuka. It was never about getting money back or bashing Ronin. I stated several times that I thought it was a good deal regardless and that I was not bashing Ronin or their product. In fact, I stated quite the opposite several times, praising them. It was only after I emailed them asking about the cracked tsuka being part of S&D, and me posting EXACTLY as I was told by Ronin, that things escalated. I'm new on here, and I enjoy learning about katana and swords in general. I've met some great people and vendors. Everyone has an opinion about everything and not everyone is going to agree all the time. That's kind of the point of this forum though right? To state opinions about various swords and yes, the vendors that sell those swords? I agree that claiming opinion as fact is wrong no matter the situation, but I don't think anyone has done that here. Its up to every man (yes, grown men) to decide for themselves whether to believe what they read or not and do their own research and discerning. Thanks to the Mods for not shutting this thread down because someone stated an opinion that wasn't agreed with by someone else. This reaffirms my reasoning for liking this forum so much. Sometimes people can forget that we all have similar interests and there are no right or wrong answers when it comes to someone's opinions, so arguing over it seems a bit silly if you think about it. Ok, sorry for the long preach/rant/whatever. And I apologize that this thread caused so much backlash, it really was started with good intentions.
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2017 11:56:59 GMT
Personally, I'd assume anything sold under a "scratch and dent" to be a project blade. Anything I didn't have to replace would be a bonus. It's a pretty way of saying Factory Seconds, maybe vendors should consider calling them "Dent, Scratch and Crack". I can see where a guy buying a scratch or dent sword could expect a scratch or a dent and not a crack.
I would want to get a cracked tsuka replaced. Without having the sword in hand to feel it, it could be anything from a ticking time bomb ready to fly into splinters to a minor cosmetic issue so it is hard to make too many specific suggestions to you.
For myself, knowing something wasn't right in the handle would eat at me every time I looked at or thought of the sword until I got it taken care of.
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Post by seanyx11 on May 11, 2017 15:12:43 GMT
I couldn't have said it better myself Jon Frances Its actually funny that you said "Dent, Scratch and Crack", because I almost wrote the exact same thing in my previous post, but didn't want to come off as being inflammatory, instigating more drama. Not saying that's what you're trying to do at all, seems quite the opposite actually, just interesting you put it that way since I was thinking this myself. This was exactly my thought, I was expecting scratches or dents and not cracks, not because I take everything completely literally, as if scratch & dent can't mean other things like scuffs, chips or fraying ito etc., but that I just didn't infer a crack as part of those potential problems from the description on the website. I feel like I'm beating a dead horse now, and it is what it is at this point. Its interesting how the simplest things can get so overcomplicated when you involve human fallibility, egos and not being able to infer intentions on the internet decisively.
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Post by Verity on May 11, 2017 15:23:00 GMT
I think any production sword has room for potential issues, scratch and dent or not.
Look at it this way... gives you an opportunity to have a complete custom elite! Is the blade good? Makes a great platform for a scary good sword if you put in the time and effort to do over the koshirae.
Also remember, Japanese swords would often change their clothes over their lifetime. Koshirae were intended to be perishable. The blade and fittings endured.
Not to say it's "ok" for QC issues but they do happen.
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Post by seanyx11 on May 11, 2017 16:06:04 GMT
Absolutely my friend I agree with 100% of what you said. Though, a new production sword with a cracked tsuka would be returned promptly (for me anyway) for a new one. Oh believe me, as soon as I saw the crack the wheels started turning on how to make a custom sword out of the blade. If I knew how to do all of those things, I'd do it myself, and I'm sure I could do it as I'm pretty good with DIY projects. Problem is, I'm not all that great with woodworking, nor do I have the proper tools or workspace to do it. I have tons of tools for working on cars, electronics, and computers, but alas, no woodworking tools. I don't necessarily see myself doing any more than 1 or 2 custom swords myself, so is it worth it to buy a whole set of tools and build a workbench/work area for just a couple swords, that may or may not turn out right anyway? Probably not IMO, and that's ok. The other option is paying to have this done, which, of course you know you get what you pay for, and I'm not one to cheap out on custom type projects. I feel if you're going to do it, do it right the first time the way you really want it, otherwise you'll never be satisfied with the outcome, in my humble opinion anyway. So, I'm looking at a good chunk of change for having everything professionally made and mounted. Spending $1000 for koshirae on a $450 sword seems a bit silly, but I bet it would be nice
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Post by berntk on May 11, 2017 20:49:06 GMT
What I'd do; Squeeze in some glue, and fit the fuchi so tight that i'd have to hammer it in place. Paper shims will do. The cracks don't seem too deep, except the one on the omote side. Of course, provided that the fuchi is a stout one, and not sub-millimetre copper. It seems that there are already some repairs done to the ha/ mune cracks.
B
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Post by seanyx11 on May 12, 2017 4:50:16 GMT
Those repairs that were done to the ha/mune cracks were done by whoever assembled the katana in the first place. The pictures in the first post were taken immediately after having taken off the fuchi for the very first time.
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2017 12:28:04 GMT
How tight was the fuchi? Those rayskin triangles look really off to me. I could be off, but I'm thinking the crack happened when someone banged the fuchi on to the tsuka over the rayskin shims, look where that crack is. That's a heck of a lot more likely than getting the tsuka on or off the blade.
If those goofy triangles are standard practice, Connor should have a pretty safe bet.
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Post by seanyx11 on May 12, 2017 17:11:48 GMT
The fuchi was pretty tight, and I'm almost positive that this is the case with the fuchi being banged onto the tsuka. If you look closely at the pictures, you can see where some of the wood has been almost shaved off from the fuchi being forced onto it. The tsuka was not difficult to get off of the blade, so it did not crack from taking it off for sure. It took 3 or 4 light taps with my plastic dead blow hammer and 2x4 piece that has a notch cut out perfectly to fit the habaki.
I can't speculate on that since I've only seen a couple Ronin tsuka cores, though both had similar rayskin pieces.
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Post by berntk on May 12, 2017 18:12:54 GMT
The same pieces are probably a cheap shortcut to fit the tsuka to the fuchi, there are always a lot of small pieces left over. Seems to me that the omote crack was caused by forcing the tsuka onto the nakago, without the fuchi/ nakago fit being good enough, and too little filing on the repair glue. Glue the crack, cut off most of the rayskin pieces, substituting good solid wood glued on, fit the fuchi solidly, and smoke the nakago in properly (soot it with a candle, and file the ha/mune notches in the tsuka to a precise fit). This is a good explanation, That's what I'd do, and I would absolutely call that a proper repair. A good wood glue or an epoxy would be my first choice, CA glue tends to be a bit brittle when the fit is imperfect. Polyurethane glue is a no-no. On the omote side, you'll need to build the wood in probably 2 stages, the first needs to be crosswise to the crack to reinforce the area. Bamboo would be a good choice, but I guess that a larger piece of beech or another compact hardwood would do admirably.
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