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Post by stopped1 on Nov 12, 2016 11:40:33 GMT
Hi guys Been a few years since I have visited SBG, haven't worked on any sword for 3 years due of house rules (shared an apartment, no swords and tool in the living room), I finally decided to move out and now back to business The forum looks different and my old user name was deleted somehow..... Anyway, been wanting to get a very light katana for Iaido, my Sensei told me that he didn't like the idea but would tolerate it if I pass my San Dan exam in Feb next year..... time to build a sword I guess. I won't be cutting with it (got a James Raw EN45 for that), so I can pretty much have it built as light as I want. Ideally close to the Tozando Iaito I got, so 750-800g. Tried a few Ebay sellers but none was prepared to make one with a blade 6.5mm thick at munemachi, except St-nihonto The price was pretty good too, 28in blade, 6.5mm blade at munemachi, folded steel with hamon (suguha), bo-hi and soe-hi next to it real yokote, Koshisori (I know I know, I will have a hard time learning to noto with it), plain iron F/K, all for $280 (or $200 for a mono steel without hamon)! Plus $50 for a suken horimono below the bo-hi on one side.... Sounds very cheap to me. Granted, I didn't ask what steel type, some probably 1050/60 folded, nor did I ask for fancy fitting (I will rewrap with japanese cotton ito and intsall cheap japanese F/K anyway). Anyone has had custom order from this gig? Any good?
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Post by connorclarke on Nov 12, 2016 12:54:43 GMT
Looking forward to see how this turns out. Your specs look good and similar to what I would order.
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Post by stopped1 on Nov 13, 2016 8:56:00 GMT
Ok, so no warnings, taking a punt, just paid $330 but I made sure that he confirmed that he has read my list before paying. Even draw pics with the email....
Let see how it looks like when I get it, will hopefully report back before Xmas.....
-2.35 shaku/28 inch edge -Folded steel, clay temper hamon, -Koshisori
-Bo-hi AND Soe-hi on each side of blade. Bo-hi should follow the shape of the ko-kissaki, soe-hi (about 2-2.5mm wide) running along the bo-hi, on the opposite side of the shinogi, as per the drawing attached
-The blade should be thin NO MORE THAN 6.5mm above the habaki -real yokote -lots of taper, the part just behind the yokote should be 10-12mm less than the area in front of the habaki -ko kissaki
-9.5 sun Tsuka: -iron Fuchi/Kashira1#, -Black Spear Menuki, -green ito, -Black Same, -hineri maki -Red saya -Iron Tsuba -Any brass habaki ok
The sword, without the saya less than 750g,
Other requests -Please don't acid etch blade too much, very very faint hada visible is ok. (see pic) -hamon not too wavy if possible please -the last few inches (habaki side) not sharpened please
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Post by Google on Nov 13, 2016 19:06:33 GMT
Your iaito has koshizori? I found it very bizzare for iaido.
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Post by stopped1 on Nov 13, 2016 20:55:45 GMT
Your iaito has koshizori? I found it very bizzare for iaido. My iaito doesn't, but I really really want a sword with koshizori, hence the comment about going to have a hard time learning to noto with it.
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Post by Kiyoshi on Nov 13, 2016 21:42:20 GMT
I haven't bought from them recently but I do have three custom blades from them. They are an assembly factory that will give you more or less what you asked for. I've not had any real big flaws with the sword themselves, as in the flaws were quick fixes, but you only get more or less what you asked for with a few things off. The part that sucks really bad about st-nihonto is the customer service and wait time. They are terrible at communication once you get your order placed and they can take longer than the paypal money back guarantee to send you your sword, which makes me uncomfortable.
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Post by stopped1 on Nov 14, 2016 1:47:35 GMT
Well. Most ebay custom order is like ask for 10 things and you get 7. I put everything in point form and made sure he wrote back and said he has read and under stood what I wanted. He was pretty helpful with the request, but once paid, all email replies became one liners. I don't mind if he gets other stuff wrong but the blade needs to be as ordered, everything I can fix. Lets see how it plays out.
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Post by Kiyoshi on Nov 14, 2016 7:24:17 GMT
My blades were within .5 inches in length and .2 in all other areas, so your blade will likely be right except the hamon will be an approximation because those can be hard to get perfect. The fittings will likely be correct if you just wanted exactly what was listed in the sets with no changes. For instance, I wanted the HS-08 saya with black horn instead of brown, he said that would be something he could do, but I still wound up with brown horn. Things like that or a mistaken tsuba (which I got from another seller, st-nihonto hasn't make that mistake with me yet) are what you can expect.
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Post by stopped1 on Nov 14, 2016 9:25:41 GMT
As long as he get the, 28in blade, Koshisori, real yokote and 6.5mm part right, I am not too fuss about the rest actually. Would be good if he does the bohi and soehi nicely but I am more worried that he would laser cut/ etch the Suken on (I can fix it but will take time). I wonder what Habaki it will have, most Chinese katana have 7.5-8mm habaki and getting a skinny one may be a problem, although I know skinny Chinese habaki exist. The skinny blade was the bit that put most ebay sellers off. A few of them tried to convince me that such a light blade will snap. 3 of my swords are that skinny, a James Raw EN45 with 6mm blade, a Showato tachi (which is very odd,I suspect someone had it built to complete a set of armour or as a gift) and a Shinto sword (yeah it was polished down). I did however pick suguha hamon because I know the blade will be skinny and has 4 hi on, so best to leave a bit of meat soft just in case. A bent sword is better than a snapped sword. All those cool wide hamon don't leave much unhardened steel. I would have even asked for ito suguha had I not worried about it running out after final shaping..... Told him I would order another one if I like the order. If it goes well, I would like another one but with oil quenched 9260, only bo-hi on one side with the intention of cutting at home. oohhh and a two handed jian one of these days. I hope he will keep that in mind and build me a nice sword...
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Post by Kiyoshi on Nov 14, 2016 13:05:10 GMT
That 6.5 might end up being after the habaki though, as they usually use standard habaki. It might be possible though, as I've had them get a f/k that they don't normally carry for one of my orders. I've been considering getting a 9260 blade only from them and getting it mounted by a craftsman, but that would be well in the future. As far as the blade snapping, it might with their heat treat. It isn't going to be as good as James Raw by a long shot.
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Post by stopped1 on Nov 14, 2016 13:32:55 GMT
Oh well, money paid already, so I hope its the way I wanted, will report back with pics. hopefully before Xmas.
I just fail to understand how they can fail heat hear treat and temper properly, modern mono steel like 1060, T10 and 9026 have well established heating and tempering parameters.... heat it, quench in oil, heat up at certain temp and let it drop at certain rate (just dial the number and set the timer), but yes, have seen loads of poor heat treating before.... Once ordered a sword from another seller with folded steel and hamon, ended up getting a oil quenched folded steel and one in mono steel proper hamon in the same package, same fittings too. I believe it is the level of care.... nobody checked my order and the instruction got passed down the factory as two orders.
SOmetimes I just think the bulk of their orders are wall hangers that are sort of functional, and we are the rarity......
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Post by Kiyoshi on Nov 14, 2016 23:23:21 GMT
Mine were softer than they should have been, all of them were. They use quick and dirty methods instead of hard, more quality methods, if they are heat treated much at all. Some of them have reportedly used a torch to create a hamon instead of actual quenching and heat treating.
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Post by stopped1 on Dec 6, 2016 22:18:22 GMT
Quuck update. Good news bad news.
I am not going to see it for Xmas, he is now doing up a saya for it still.
Good news is that means my blade won't fit in the stock saya, so they may indeed be following my spec
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Post by stopped1 on Dec 7, 2016 11:44:11 GMT
Managed to get a pic off him, looks like its getting some where, the general shape looks ok, and hope it looks better when it has been final shaped. The Sori is not true koshizori not does have more bend towards the handle, buts just as well, less problem with Noto. Nakago long and so balance will be ok, enough taper in the blade too. Now if it is as skinny and bohi/soehi cut as well as I hope for I will be happy
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Post by connorclarke on Dec 7, 2016 22:12:31 GMT
Good job you are getting a custom saya made. Make sure to request proper bo-hi termination as well. I know him on Skype and I can ask him to make sure he does so if you want?
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Post by stopped1 on Dec 7, 2016 23:33:04 GMT
Good job you are getting a custom saya made. Make sure to request proper bo-hi termination as well. I know him on Skype and I can ask him to make sure he does so if you want? Pretty please pm sent
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Post by stopped1 on Jan 17, 2017 6:37:00 GMT
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Post by stopped1 on Jan 17, 2017 6:59:48 GMT
DOn't have the sword yet but looks ok
Cons: -Seppa too large for tsuba (easy fix) -suken engraving looks rough, can probably just cover it up with red oxide as I am too lazy to burnish it, also much longer than the pic I sent him (so shorter bo hi, more weight, I wanted very light blade so every bit helps) but in fairness I did not specify the length. At least it is not laser engraved or done with electric pencil engraver -Asked for ko kissaki, looks to be chu kissaki (could be picture angle tho)
Pro -fairly even maki, didn't expect much, I was going to rewrap if its bad -Sori is about right -Free upgrade from brass habaki and seppa to copper (I hope it is not copper coated zinc alloy) -free upgrade to horn bits on saya -Hi looks to be nicely terminated -no deep acid etch, just the way I asked -Hamon like I asked for, Can see the white nie outline from the pic but not too loud -All fitting and color as asked
The unknown -ask him to make it about 6.5mm thick at the habaki, can't tell till I see my sword -actual length of the blade
Hopefully in a few days I will do a proper review, wish me luck!
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Post by connorclarke on Jan 17, 2017 19:38:42 GMT
I was going to actually say that the blade looks fairly thin and may be a concern as I prefer blades with a bit more meat, but then you asked for a very light blade so looks like he has the weight done pretty much what you asked as well. Good luck.
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Post by stopped1 on Jan 23, 2017 12:57:38 GMT
Sword arrived today! Packing for Iaido seminar now so will only do a full review when I get back Here is first impression placed next to my older non japanese swords (top to bottom, James Raw EN45, Tozando iaito, ST Nihonto custom order, hauwei custom order: Blade: -2.35 shaku, correct -Folded steel, clay temper hamon, correct -Koshisori, correct -6.5mm blade at munemachi, correct -Bo-hi AND Soe-hi on each side of blade. Bo-hi should follow the shape of the ko-kissaki, soe-hi (about 2-2.5mm wide) running along the bo-hi, on the opposite side of the shinogi Skinny blade as requested and compared to Hauwei, -real yokote , correct -lots of taper, the part just behind the yokote should be 10-12mm less than the area in front of the habaki , correct -ko kissaki NOT RIGHT, this is a small chu kissaki -9.5 sun Tsuka: Correct -iron Fuchi/Kashira1# : Correct and it is nice and seamless -Black Spear Menuki, correct -green ito, correct but looks cheap shoe lacy -Black Same, correct -hineri maki , correct -Red saya , ohhh this one is custom made for the sori, got free horn fitting (could be black plastic, don't have time to check but it better than the stock one where they paint the whole saya. got some black stripes coming thru and looks fancy but I suspect it was just the top red coat too thin and most get sanded down, but it is nice looking, by the way the saya weights a ton, not sure what wood did they use) -Iron Tsuba , correct -Any brass habaki, technically wrong as it is copper but this is more of an up grade -suken horimono, not cool, it is super rough, I have painted it red, just waiting for the red paint to cure next week before finishing it up - don't acid etch blade too much, very very faint hada visible, correct, can just see above the hamon -hamon not too wavy if possible , correct -the last few inches (habaki side) not sharpened, last two inches not sharpened -750-800g, it weights 850g but I get that's as close as I will get Other things to moan about: -tsuka is shaped like a potato, very not sexy, I will redo the handle and fit it with a edo Kabuto gane later -Terrible ito and the sageo is worse. I hope the Chinese makers will find a decent grade fake silk ito, my tourist zinc alloy katana from the 80s (it so bad that it has plastic handle) has very nice looking fake silk ito so they exist. Some tetsu green silk will be in order. -Suken engraving is 3 times has long as the pic I sent, if it were smaller I could have burnished it, and it is too far forward as the whole thing doesn't look like a polished down and shortened tachi anymore. in all fairness I did not specify the length - Seppa are too bad I have not checked the tang but don't expect nice file marks. Should have asked him to cut the hi 4-5 and suken inches into the tang so I can hand file the tang and deep rust it to look like a koto sword, oh well....... For $330 shipped, this is a great deal, he is a bit slow with the order and sometimes I struggled to communicate with him on exactly when I want, but at the end of the day he did just everything I ask for. Most issues are minor and I can and expected to fix it myself. I am going to order a 9260 oil, single hi (one side only) version of the same thing soon. Happy days!
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