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Post by 28shadow on Jul 28, 2016 5:32:09 GMT
I'll make sure to post an update in here when I get it in. I'm very curious to see how the cross section holds up to various jugs and bottles in my backyard, and against tatami. If it's anything like my Munich it'll pretty much be a lightsaber when it comes to the thrusting. This (in my opinion) is one of those times where the "beefy" reputation of CS helps the product. The suckers are pretty darn rigid, yet narrow, because of the partially raised spine in the center (you may actually be able to sharpen the two edges). Watch on YouTube a CS video of them stabbing pig carcasses with this thing (or the Ribbed Shell Swept Hilt Rapier, for that matter), it looks like an effortless laser beam shoots through them...NO PROBLEM against a two legged swine wearing heavy clothing who has broken into your dwelling. Firearms first, of course, but if you happen to quickly grab a 17/18th century "sidearm" off the display case (reason for legal purposes...as impaling a BG with a sword may look odd to a potential jury), there are worse things to defend ones self with. Stop, you're making me want it here right now ! Obvious combative qualities aside, I can see this sword performing well as a sword for Festivals and just general display. I'm really looking forward to this sword!
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Post by howler on Jul 28, 2016 5:51:35 GMT
This (in my opinion) is one of those times where the "beefy" reputation of CS helps the product. The suckers are pretty darn rigid, yet narrow, because of the partially raised spine in the center (you may actually be able to sharpen the two edges). Watch on YouTube a CS video of them stabbing pig carcasses with this thing (or the Ribbed Shell Swept Hilt Rapier, for that matter), it looks like an effortless laser beam shoots through them...NO PROBLEM against a two legged swine wearing heavy clothing who has broken into your dwelling. Firearms first, of course, but if you happen to quickly grab a 17/18th century "sidearm" off the display case (reason for legal purposes...as impaling a BG with a sword may look odd to a potential jury), there are worse things to defend ones self with. Stop, you're making me want it here right now ! Obvious combative qualities aside, I can see this sword performing well as a sword for Festivals and just general display. I'm really looking forward to this sword! Not to plant a seed in your head or anything, but you MIGHT want a second for practice (a spare) and leave the other for display/replacement/Festivals...and there is still free Summer shipping...and OMG...are they still there...are they SOLD OUT? Heck, I bought one at around $190 something or other (a good deal, actually) before I saw the deal and ordered one (had to pay shipping at the time). Later, I ordered another (with free shipping)...along with a (being discontinued...but you might still be able to score one for $165 if you keep looking) Sword Breaker (I was stab happy)...now THAT is a heavy beast sticker (though your supposed to whack things with it).
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Post by 28shadow on Jul 28, 2016 6:07:43 GMT
Stop, you're making me want it here right now ! Obvious combative qualities aside, I can see this sword performing well as a sword for Festivals and just general display. I'm really looking forward to this sword! Not to plant a seed in your head or anything, but you MIGHT want a second for practice (a spare) and leave the other for display/replacement/Festivals...and there is still free Summer shipping...and OMG...are they still there...are they SOLD OUT? Heck, I bought one at around $190 something or other (a good deal, actually) before I saw the deal and ordered one (had to pay shipping at the time). Later, I ordered another (with free shipping)...along with a (being discontinued...but you might still be able to score one for $165 if you keep looking) Sword Breaker (I was stab happy)...now THAT is a heavy beast sticker (though your supposed to whack things with it). Well, for festivals I have no intention of drawing the sword from the scabbard so the hilt's decoration is enough. Besides, the sword I plan on carrying with my first costume is my Roven. The smallsword would be for a later period build. To me, a well worn sword looks more interesting than a pure display piece. If I want something just to display I might as well go stainless. I hope you enjoy that sword breaker, that thing's basically a two handed smallsword (cold steel beefy variant, of course)!
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Post by howler on Jul 28, 2016 8:59:51 GMT
Not to plant a seed in your head or anything, but you MIGHT want a second for practice (a spare) and leave the other for display/replacement/Festivals...and there is still free Summer shipping...and OMG...are they still there...are they SOLD OUT? Heck, I bought one at around $190 something or other (a good deal, actually) before I saw the deal and ordered one (had to pay shipping at the time). Later, I ordered another (with free shipping)...along with a (being discontinued...but you might still be able to score one for $165 if you keep looking) Sword Breaker (I was stab happy)...now THAT is a heavy beast sticker (though your supposed to whack things with it). Well, for festivals I have no intention of drawing the sword from the scabbard so the hilt's decoration is enough. Besides, the sword I plan on carrying with my first costume is my Roven. The smallsword would be for a later period build. To me, a well worn sword looks more interesting than a pure display piece. If I want something just to display I might as well go stainless. I hope you enjoy that sword breaker, that thing's basically a two handed smallsword (cold steel beefy variant, of course)! Two handed smallsword is actually not that bad a description. The idea is to beat another persons weapon, while having a dagger or whatnot, in your other hand, and you can also use the thing as a kind of shield, to parry/block an attack, while also being able to stab with one hand...though, clearly, not like a smallsword or similar light blade. The two handed thing is to use it like a short staff (you can EASILY hold the blade with authority), swing it two handed like a bat...and the best thing (most matching your comment)...a short spear.
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Post by MOK on Jul 28, 2016 9:04:49 GMT
The Cold Steel "smallsword" is more like a weird kind of anachronistic transitional rapier sort of thingy, clearly designed by someone who didn't actually know what smallswords are like or how they were used. It's well enough made for what it is, but it doesn't really look or handle like historical smallswords. It is a "heavy" small sword (at 22oz) but still within historical limits. Sure, if I were a MASTER at small swordsmanship, I would want one 4-6oz. lighter if I was going up against another small sword master. However, defensively, factoring in what you would face today (baseball bat, tire iron, machete, etc...) this would be a better option, particularly for non masters (I CERTAINLY fall into that category), as the speed at the tip is simply BLINDING. Also, remember that A LOT of those "historical" swords were in fact primarily made for fashion, where you wanted something as small as possible because you knew you would never use it. Flimsy, broken tipped "Court" swords were all over the place, unlike earlier periods, were the small sword might actually encounter "other" heavier weapons, which is why those were bigger. I don't just mean the weight. It's heavy simply because it's too large in almost every aspect - the blade is too beefy, the grip is too long, the rings are too wide, the plates and bars are too thick (and too uniformly thick)... It really feels more like a very short rapier than a smallsword, and begs to be gripped like a rapier, too, although even then the grip does get in the way. If you're just looking for some kind of pointy sword, it's a perfectly fine stabbing iron! But if you want something that's actually like a smallsword, this isn't quite it. I also don't like the decoration at all, but that's just me.
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Uhlan
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Post by Uhlan on Jul 28, 2016 11:04:26 GMT
G.G. Godwin has a colichemarde that is more in line with historical pieces. A month ago they assured me the thing was in stock. I agree with MOK. The CS is not a smallsword at all. It has enough material to make two smallswords out of. But if you are looking for some home defence implement, you want the CS.
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Post by 28shadow on Jul 28, 2016 13:28:08 GMT
It is a "heavy" small sword (at 22oz) but still within historical limits. Sure, if I were a MASTER at small swordsmanship, I would want one 4-6oz. lighter if I was going up against another small sword master. However, defensively, factoring in what you would face today (baseball bat, tire iron, machete, etc...) this would be a better option, particularly for non masters (I CERTAINLY fall into that category), as the speed at the tip is simply BLINDING. Also, remember that A LOT of those "historical" swords were in fact primarily made for fashion, where you wanted something as small as possible because you knew you would never use it. Flimsy, broken tipped "Court" swords were all over the place, unlike earlier periods, were the small sword might actually encounter "other" heavier weapons, which is why those were bigger. I don't just mean the weight. It's heavy simply because it's too large in almost every aspect - the blade is too beefy, the grip is too long, the rings are too wide, the plates and bars are too thick (and too uniformly thick)... It really feels more like a very short rapier than a smallsword, and begs to be gripped like a rapier, too, although even then the grip does get in the way. If you're just looking for some kind of pointy sword, it's a perfectly fine stabbing iron! But if you want something that's actually like a smallsword, this isn't quite it. I also don't like the decoration at all, but that's just me. You know, I have a running theory on why the grip is so large. Have you ever noticed just how large Lynn Thompson's hands are? I believe when they were sending the specs and diagrams to the forge they contracted this from they ensured that it would fit his hand. Perhaps they even enlarged the finger rings because he preffered the rapier style grip than the pinching smallsword due to his hands being a bit on the larger side. Just a thought.
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Post by MOK on Jul 28, 2016 15:14:55 GMT
I think it's just that whoever actually designed it is only familiar with smallswords from photos. The same fundamental flaw that plagues most of their other swords, too.
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Post by 28shadow on Jul 28, 2016 17:15:22 GMT
I think it's just that whoever actually designed it is only familiar with smallswords from photos. The same fundamental flaw that plagues most of their other swords, too. That's probably more likely to be honest. I own three cold steel swords and they're all rather bulky crowbars that cut through things with bearlike efficiency. Oh well
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Post by howler on Jul 28, 2016 21:59:46 GMT
It is a "heavy" small sword (at 22oz) but still within historical limits. Sure, if I were a MASTER at small swordsmanship, I would want one 4-6oz. lighter if I was going up against another small sword master. However, defensively, factoring in what you would face today (baseball bat, tire iron, machete, etc...) this would be a better option, particularly for non masters (I CERTAINLY fall into that category), as the speed at the tip is simply BLINDING. Also, remember that A LOT of those "historical" swords were in fact primarily made for fashion, where you wanted something as small as possible because you knew you would never use it. Flimsy, broken tipped "Court" swords were all over the place, unlike earlier periods, were the small sword might actually encounter "other" heavier weapons, which is why those were bigger. I don't just mean the weight. It's heavy simply because it's too large in almost every aspect - the blade is too beefy, the grip is too long, the rings are too wide, the plates and bars are too thick (and too uniformly thick)... It really feels more like a very short rapier than a smallsword, and begs to be gripped like a rapier, too, although even then the grip does get in the way. If you're just looking for some kind of pointy sword, it's a perfectly fine stabbing iron! But if you want something that's actually like a smallsword, this isn't quite it. I also don't like the decoration at all, but that's just me. I guess we could get into the nuance (definition) of a specimen being "actually like" a smallsword...but in my opinion it must at least be considered "like" a smallsword. It is lighter than the Natchez bowie. I certainly agree with all your statements about the weight and larger dimentions (could/should have been 1/4lb. lighter, with smaller dimentions), but it's still usable as a smallsword, and technically within historical parameters (under 1 1/2lbs.). These things existed for over 200 years, so you will get variation. Something we can all agree on...you DO NOT WANT some of the stuff that came in the end...flimsy, brittle "Court Swords", which were little more than fashion items, and nobody will say that the CS item is that. It really is good for practice, and even home defense, and at 100 clams...an intriguing purchase.
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Post by howler on Jul 28, 2016 22:11:01 GMT
G.G. Godwin has a colichemarde that is more in line with historical pieces. A month ago they assured me the thing was in stock. I agree with MOK. The CS is not a smallsword at all. It has enough material to make two smallswords out of. But if you are looking for some home defence implement, you want the CS. I agree that CS should have made it smaller, but if it were half the weight, that would put it at around eleven ounces (less than even the flimsy, "Court Sword" fashion items), and these swords had over a two century history, so there is large variation. One must at least (in my opinion) categorize the thing as "smallsword like"...otherwise you would be left with lumping it in with CS special forces shovel (a FANTASTIC tool, btw). Even a small reading of your posts tell me your a VERY informed blade enthusiast, so I'm just picking your brain as a neophyte, and if I were to actually engage in a smallsword duel, the CS item would NOT be my choice, so I get your main point (that there are more generally excepted specimens that would better define the breed).
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Post by 28shadow on Jul 28, 2016 22:22:48 GMT
G.G. Godwin has a colichemarde that is more in line with historical pieces. A month ago they assured me the thing was in stock. I agree with MOK. The CS is not a smallsword at all. It has enough material to make two smallswords out of. But if you are looking for some home defence implement, you want the CS. I agree that CS should have made it smaller, but if it were half the weight, that would put it at around eleven ounces (less than even the flimsy, "Court Sword" fashion items), and these swords had over a two century history, so there is large variation. One must at least (in my opinion) categorize the thing as "smallsword like"...otherwise you would be left with lumping it in with CS special forces shovel (a FANTASTIC tool, btw). Even a small reading of your posts tell me your a VERY informed blade enthusiast, so I'm just picking your brain as a neophyte, and if I were to actually engage in a smallsword duel, the CS item would NOT be my choice, so I get your main point (that there are more generally excepted specimens that would better define the breed). From reading your posts it seems you have a good knowledge on cold steel's lineup. I wouldn't consider myself a fan, but I do like what cold steel represents in the sword community, and that is, for the most part, semi affordable swords for backyard cutting.
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Post by howler on Jul 28, 2016 23:25:47 GMT
I agree that CS should have made it smaller, but if it were half the weight, that would put it at around eleven ounces (less than even the flimsy, "Court Sword" fashion items), and these swords had over a two century history, so there is large variation. One must at least (in my opinion) categorize the thing as "smallsword like"...otherwise you would be left with lumping it in with CS special forces shovel (a FANTASTIC tool, btw). Even a small reading of your posts tell me your a VERY informed blade enthusiast, so I'm just picking your brain as a neophyte, and if I were to actually engage in a smallsword duel, the CS item would NOT be my choice, so I get your main point (that there are more generally excepted specimens that would better define the breed). From reading your posts it seems you have a good knowledge on cold steel's lineup. I wouldn't consider myself a fan, but I do like what cold steel represents in the sword community, and that is, for the most part, semi affordable swords for backyard cutting. Well, I have a basic knowledge of CS only because I've collected various items from them (and other companies) over the years. They are a niche company that provides a wide spectrum of products (many that are hard to acquire due to price or selection), and they do tend to lean toward the "robust" (put nicely, in many instances) for a general novice market (like me). All in all, the CS smallsword has been given very positive reviews, but the oversized critique mentioned by others, technically, is true. In this case, with todays general market, the robustness helps the smallsword (when used in a non traditional way), but it could have been better still (in my opinion) with around a 1/4lb shaved off. Watch WeAllJuggleKnives critique on his smallsword (another company) which he paid over $310 on, and weighs 1lb 10oz. It would be nice if companies lightened these things up, however, without going to the "Court Sword" realm (mainly a brittle fashion accessory). In short, for todays market, between too heavy or light....heavy by a mile (though there is still a lot of room to work with (why not 18-20oz, for instance).
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Post by 28shadow on Jul 28, 2016 23:40:10 GMT
From reading your posts it seems you have a good knowledge on cold steel's lineup. I wouldn't consider myself a fan, but I do like what cold steel represents in the sword community, and that is, for the most part, semi affordable swords for backyard cutting. Well, I have a basic knowledge of CS only because I've collected various items from them (and other companies) over the years. They are a niche company that provides a wide spectrum of products (many that are hard to acquire due to price or selection), and they do tend to lean toward the "robust" (put nicely, in many instances) for a general novice market (like me). All in all, the CS smallsword has been given very positive reviews, but the oversized critique mentioned by others, technically, is true. In this case, with todays general market, the robustness helps the smallsword (when used in a non traditional way), but it could have been better still (in my opinion) with around a 1/4lb shaved off. Watch WeAllJuggleKnives critique on his smallsword (another company) which he paid over $310 on, and weighs 1lb 10oz. It would be nice if companies lightened these things up, however, without going to the "Court Sword" realm (mainly a brittle fashion accessory). In short, for todays market, between too heavy or light....heavy by a mile (though there is still a lot of room to work with (why not 18-20oz, for instance). Yeah I am aware of WeAllJuggleKnives' review of the Dynasty Forge Smallsword, it's part of the reason I decided to jump on this deal. It's interesting that a man primarily trained in FMA would choose a thrusting only sword as his go to sword since FMA are cut and thrust systems with emphasis on the cut, yet he chose a smallsword as his "fighting" sword. Personally I don't think the weight will be much of an issue, I have a rapier that weighs somewhere between 2 1/2lb to 3lb and the Windlass Munich which comes in at a whopping 3lb 8oz and they both work fine for me. In fact I would prefer this smallsword to have a little amount of beef to it, just a few extra ounces behind that point makes it all the more sturdy. That is what CS specializes in...
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LeMal
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Post by LeMal on Jul 29, 2016 0:09:18 GMT
Frankly I like my CS smallsword, especially gotten "factory 2nd" for a ridiculously low price though I can find absolutely no flaw that put it on the clearance line.
And I agree about the robustness making it, well, better in my mind. I like the idea of something more like a rapier but much, much easier to carry unobtrusively.
I have a friend who's an academic and historian and inspired the idea; he's, well, a kind of "HEMA" guy if you figure his specialisation is early American and frontier martial arts. His own preference is for a combination of robust "smallsword" of a CS variety in one hand and a nice Bowie in the other.
The very name of which, for the majority of us on here, was itself inspired by a certain river sandbar--and a harsh lesson to someone about what happens if your "small sword" (or sword cane) turns out to be too "proper" and effete. ;P
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Post by bluetrain on Jul 29, 2016 0:10:28 GMT
I've never handled or examined a Cold Steel small sword and the price is just above my threshold but they look very attractive to me. What I do have, however, is a contemporary U.S. Army NCO sword, which is pretty much what most late 18th century small swords were like (It's not much like the original 1840 NCO sword at all). It's fast, it's beautifully made, it's light and it's flimsy. The blade is actually carbon steel, or I'm pretty sure it is, and passes such tests I'm willing to give it, but it's really too light as a serious weapon. The same could be said of a Civil War general's sword, too, for that matter. They're almost identical. The Cold Steel sword reminds me of an extended French bayonet for a Lebel.
It's not the only sword I'm interested in, you understand.
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Post by howler on Jul 29, 2016 0:38:15 GMT
I've never handled or examined a Cold Steel small sword and the price is just above my threshold but they look very attractive to me. What I do have, however, is a contemporary U.S. Army NCO sword, which is pretty much what most late 18th century small swords were like (It's not much like the original 1840 NCO sword at all). It's fast, it's beautifully made, it's light and it's flimsy. The blade is actually carbon steel, or I'm pretty sure it is, and passes such tests I'm willing to give it, but it's really too light as a serious weapon. The same could be said of a Civil War general's sword, too, for that matter. They're almost identical. The Cold Steel sword reminds me of an extended French bayonet for a Lebel. It's not the only sword I'm interested in, you understand. Hey, bluetrain, you might want to take a look on Cold Steel Special Projects, as they are offering smallsword (though not in the seconds area), at a crazy $100 bucks (and free shipping Summer special), as was mentioned earlier in this thread. I'm assuming your price threshold was for regular pricing (though you can still get these for roughly $2oo or so). The CS Marine NCO is kinda what your talking about, being under 30oz., and very much like an infantry saber (mimicking 1840, but with narrower width). YouTube video shows them chopping hanging turkeys in half, so it would/could do a number on an arm or whatnot.
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Post by howler on Jul 29, 2016 0:43:01 GMT
Frankly I like my CS smallsword, especially gotten "factory 2nd" for a ridiculously low price though I can find absolutely no flaw that put it on the clearance line. And I agree about the robustness making it, well, better in my mind. I like the idea of something more like a rapier but much, much easier to carry unobtrusively. I have a friend who's an academic and historian and inspired the idea; he's, well, a kind of "HEMA" guy if you figure his specialisation is early American and frontier martial arts. His own preference is for a combination of robust "smallsword" of a CS variety in one hand and a nice Bowie in the other. The very name of which, for the majority of us on here, was itself inspired by a certain river sandbar--and a harsh lesson to someone about what happens if your "small sword" (or sword cane) turns out to be too "proper" and effete. ;P The smallsword-bowie (offhand dagger) combo was my idea of an EXCELLENT defense setup as well. If you think about it, the Natchez bowie is heavier than the 31" bladed small sword.
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Post by 28shadow on Jul 29, 2016 1:10:32 GMT
Frankly I like my CS smallsword, especially gotten "factory 2nd" for a ridiculously low price though I can find absolutely no flaw that put it on the clearance line. And I agree about the robustness making it, well, better in my mind. I like the idea of something more like a rapier but much, much easier to carry unobtrusively. I have a friend who's an academic and historian and inspired the idea; he's, well, a kind of "HEMA" guy if you figure his specialisation is early American and frontier martial arts. His own preference is for a combination of robust "smallsword" of a CS variety in one hand and a nice Bowie in the other. The very name of which, for the majority of us on here, was itself inspired by a certain river sandbar--and a harsh lesson to someone about what happens if your "small sword" (or sword cane) turns out to be too "proper" and effete. ;P The smallsword-bowie (offhand dagger) combo was my idea of an EXCELLENT defense setup as well. If you think about it, the Natchez bowie is heavier than the 31" bladed small sword. Oh yes, a bowie in the offhand and a smallsword in the right...that sounds really nice. Personally (if it were a modern thing) I think the CS Espada xl would EXCEL as an offhand for the smallsword. If not the xl at least the large. But at the moment I think just a normal parrying dagger would suit it just fine.
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Post by 28shadow on Jul 29, 2016 1:12:33 GMT
Frankly I like my CS smallsword, especially gotten "factory 2nd" for a ridiculously low price though I can find absolutely no flaw that put it on the clearance line. And I agree about the robustness making it, well, better in my mind. I like the idea of something more like a rapier but much, much easier to carry unobtrusively. I have a friend who's an academic and historian and inspired the idea; he's, well, a kind of "HEMA" guy if you figure his specialisation is early American and frontier martial arts. His own preference is for a combination of robust "smallsword" of a CS variety in one hand and a nice Bowie in the other. The very name of which, for the majority of us on here, was itself inspired by a certain river sandbar--and a harsh lesson to someone about what happens if your "small sword" (or sword cane) turns out to be too "proper" and effete. ;P There is actually a historical precedent for when confronted at close range an infantryman might grip his musket in his left and draw a knife/bowie with his right and use the musket as a parrying tool. I don't have a source for you, but it was in a video of Matt Easton's.
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