|
Post by Dave Kelly on Feb 5, 2016 22:56:46 GMT
KoA just broadsided an inventory for a "Lockwood Swords" concern. Who dat. Something in the back of my head says it's a Sunny Suttles journeyman who has set out on his own and now has a whole line of types. Don't know if that is the case.
One thing is he's not shy about demanding top dollar for his product. Sword/scabbard deals will run 12-1600 usd.
Any body bought in to Lockwood?
|
|
|
Post by Croccifixio on Feb 5, 2016 23:24:17 GMT
Sonny posted about mounting his swords with grips and scabbards before. They look nice, but the question in my mind is whether this is just VA with better blades or not.
|
|
|
Post by Caboose on Feb 6, 2016 2:38:48 GMT
Most of his stuff looks pretty OK. However, for the price, I would expect a much nicer fuller termination than this:
|
|
|
Post by Croccifixio on Feb 6, 2016 5:55:25 GMT
From Facebook: KOA Welcomes Lockwood Swords and a new Custom Scabbard Service! Also we are now taking deposits for Albion Armorers and Lockwood Swords. We are pleased to announce that KOA can now offer customized swords and scabbards crafted by Stephan Lockwood - a Texan swordsmith who produces fine, high-end work. His line of swords are individually crafted by stock-removing 5160 steel to shape and finishing the blade with a tempered treatment that gives it a hardness of 52-53 HRC. Hilt fittings are cast steel from his own waxes and the elaborate poplar wood grips are bound in cord and fitted with a tight layer of dyed leather. From our website you can order (or put a deposit down) on one of these swords to be crafted for you with your choice of color for the dyed leather grip. Mr. Lockwood also makes quality wood-core scabbards with sword belts - not only for his own swords, but he has also agreed to make custom scabbards to fit swords from other manufacturers. If you buy a sword from us you can opt to have us work with Mr. Lockwood to have a customized scabbard built for that sword. He will make scabbards to fit swords made by other manufacturers and it is a good way to get a high-end scabbard for typically scabbard-less swords such as those offered by Arms & Armor, Del Tin or Albion Armorers. Also - we are now able to take deposits for swords that are made to order by Lockwood Swords and Albion Armorers. You will see those details on the pages for those items We will from time to time have some examples of Mr. Lockwood’s swords as ‘’ready to buy’’ and in stock on our site. Lockwood Swords Products: www.kultofathena.com/lockwoodswords.asp
|
|
|
Post by steelhound on Feb 7, 2016 20:00:37 GMT
Saw these at KOA as well, don't think I would pay ATrim/Albion prices for a new sword maker whose work is unknown.
|
|
|
Post by chrisperoni on Feb 7, 2016 21:01:15 GMT
myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=33105Good info at myarmory about this fellow. Sonny and Stephan are longtime friends and Stephen has been Sonny's part time assistant so the similarities between them make sense. Same for why both are based out of Texas and have similar websites and photographs. The main differences I see are Sonny sources his 1060 steel blades from China as always, Stephen makes his own in Texas using 5160. Even the special edition swords from Sonny are blades from his forge in China (99% sure of this)- something speculated about on myarmoury but not explained. Sonny's fittings come from either China or usa according to his website, Stephen has similar fittings but states he uses his own wax originals. Similarities between their fittings are probably due to their working together and liking/getting used to certain looks. Looking at Stephens fullers has me wondering if he uses cnc milling for his stock removal work. If he has proper stats on his blades then I see no reason he can't charge what does for his work. Like Albion, blades made in the USA will and should cost more. It's nice to see someone "new" in the business not undervaluing their own work. Lockwood swords needs to get ahead of speculations though and announce themselves to the sword community with a full accounting of how he does what he does. It'll help legitimize him to the public that doesn't know him, help to boost his made in usa pedigree and give people a chance to feel better about his price point. Makes sense that he step his price above that of valiant armoury too. This way he doesn't directly compete with va and actually helps position va as a more affordable option when compared. Average buyers will see 2 swords that look similar and by comparison they will feel the va prices are more reasonable. It's a common sales technique actually. You offer a low price that doesn't include what people really want - practical line - has the right stuff going on for the sword itself but is lacking looks. Next offer a "middle" price - va signature and special edition - that some might think is too high but dang it if it doesn't look super sweet and purty. Then you offer a 3rd price point that is actually designed to make the middle point look like a better deal by comparison. The real goal is to direct buyers to the middle price. In this case lockwood would be that 3rd option to va customers. Of course those who don't mind the higher costs will need to know why they should be paying more- that's where lockwood need to come in and explain how he is like the more expensive makers such as Albion.
|
|
|
Post by siralan (Sir Alan Adale) on Feb 7, 2016 23:59:31 GMT
I read somewhere just recently that he does stock removal on his blades. And as for his products I have been watching his site for a year and a half and his product line has expanded. Quite a bit. Having owned multiple offerings from Valiant Armory. I am interested in seeing it if his products come with a higher level of fit and finish in comparison.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2016 1:23:23 GMT
Well, if he can meet the proposed timeframe, for something like a "Munich" you're looking at $900 in 2-3 months instead of $1600 in 3-6 months, so depending on what you're looking at there's a significant discount compared to Albion. I'm sure we'll find out where they sit quality-wise in time. The grip seam looks very nicely finished, maybe that's a minor concern but I've seen some ugly ones and appreciate the attention to detail there. A goofy fuller is a goofy fuller, so that particular one might be a pass, but some of those are pretty nice looking and don't seem out of place in the section with Arms and Armor or Albion.
|
|
|
Post by Gunnar Wolfgard on Feb 9, 2016 17:38:04 GMT
Well all I can say is Lockwood Swords doesn't have my attention because they don't offer a single Viking sword. Sonny has three and hopefully a fourth soon with his Suontaka, which will be my next purchase. I hope Mr. Lockwood has another source of income because until he can prove his swords are worth that kind of money he's going to need it. Having KOA selling his swords was a good move because he can feed off their reputation until he developes one.
|
|
Scott
Member
Posts: 1,675
|
Post by Scott on Feb 9, 2016 23:04:32 GMT
Just a thought here, maybe his prices are based on how much his swords cost to make.
|
|
|
Post by chrisperoni on Feb 9, 2016 23:35:30 GMT
Just a thought here, maybe his prices are based on how much his swords cost to make. Yup that'd be my guess too
|
|
|
Post by Gunnar Wolfgard on Feb 9, 2016 23:49:41 GMT
Well than he better look for a new source for material because his prices for a sword/scabbard is about three times what Sonny is selling them for. Looking at the picture of the fuller on his sword I would say he's over charging.
|
|
|
Post by LemuelTheLemur on Feb 10, 2016 3:08:56 GMT
Well than he better look for a new source for material because his prices for a sword/scabbard is about three times what Sonny is selling them for. Looking at the picture of the fuller on his sword I would say he's over charging. I’m pretty sure Mr Lockwood makes his sword blades via stock removal himself whereas Sonny imports his blade from China. These prices are very much in line for what you can expect from a maker in the USA. I’ve always thought of Sonny’s blade as weakest part of his package, they’re really only just ok. I’m keen to see how Lockwood’s swords compare to other high end makers...
|
|
|
Post by LemuelTheLemur on Feb 10, 2016 3:11:25 GMT
Sonny has vouched for Lockwood in the past (sharing his facebook page etc), I feel like the suspicion he’s getting is a little ungenerous.
|
|
|
Post by Gunnar Wolfgard on Feb 10, 2016 4:03:40 GMT
Well all I'm saying is he's coming out running with prices in the same range as Albion but very few people seem to know much about him or his work. Albion put in many years to get where they are now. He should have come out with swords in the price range between Sonny and Albion to establish a name for himself. Who is going to take a chance on an unknown maker when they can have a proven make like Albion for the same price. Looking at the picture of his fuller above I can tell you Albion would not do work like that. All I can say is if I'm going to buy a $800 - $1200 sword I'll be going to Albion. Given time he may turn out to be a good swordsmith but he has to prove himself.
|
|
|
Post by Croccifixio on Feb 10, 2016 7:04:50 GMT
Well all I'm saying is he's coming out running with prices in the same range as Albion but very few people seem to know much about him or his work. Albion put in many years to get where they are now. He should have come out with swords in the price range between Sonny and Albion to establish a name for himself. Who is going to take a chance on an unknown maker when they can have a proven make like Albion for the same price. Looking at the picture of his fuller above I can tell you Albion would not do work like that. All I can say is if I'm going to buy a $800 - $1200 sword I'll be going to Albion. Given time he may turn out to be a good swordsmith but he has to prove himself. I agree with this. He should have started with an introductory price that's more affordable and would allow more people to buy his work and review it. We all know how great Sonny is at customer service, and that his products are overall possibly the best bang-for-the-buck out there. That said, VA blades are far from Albion blades in terms of quality. Now since Lockwood swords are by and large at the same price point (without the scabbards even), there has to be something about the blades that matches. It's the same with A&A, but their customs and reproductions of museum pieces give them the edge over Lockwood, at least for now.
|
|
|
Post by L Driggers (fallen) on Feb 10, 2016 8:22:36 GMT
Here we go putting down a product before anyone on here even has one. You would pay this much for Tinker sword, he makes them the same way. Ablion and A Trims are CNC sowrds. There are a lot more hours involved in hand making a sword over sticking on in a CNC machine to do all the major work for you.
|
|
|
Post by L Driggers (fallen) on Feb 10, 2016 8:32:02 GMT
Can't you just be happy to have another top end maker to choose from.
|
|
|
Post by Croccifixio on Feb 10, 2016 8:41:57 GMT
But isn't that the thing? We're not sure yet. And the prices prevent us from checking. Honestly, it could very well be that these swords are better than Albions, A&As and Atrims, but until we have enough data, we're left with a pretty huge risk. I'd love it if Lockwood swords are up to the task, but it's fair criticism that the price is prohibitive for anything entry-level. Heck, your example of Tinker simply shoes that you need to establish a name first before you price this high (Tinker is one of the best, after all, and we know it).
|
|
|
Post by Curtis_Louis on Feb 10, 2016 8:59:16 GMT
I was happy to see something "new" at KOA.
I DO think we should be encouraging any and all USA manufacturers in this small community. The value of said work is exactly what people are willing to lay out. Only time will tell.
I have an ATrim with a similar fuller termination.
|
|