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Post by L Driggers (fallen) on Feb 10, 2016 9:02:36 GMT
But you have to charge what you are worth, Tinker didn't start out with low prices, either did Chenness and you all praise him to the high heaven. Ablion didn't start out cheap either.
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Post by Croccifixio on Feb 10, 2016 9:13:48 GMT
But you have to charge what you are worth, Tinker didn't start out with low prices, either did Chenness and you all praise him to the high heaven. Ablion didn't start out cheap either. You're right, and there seems to be a double standard, but Lukas started out doing commissions, and had work that he didn't really offer for sale until he got good. Another point is that Lukas was pretty transparent about everything (especially with his WIPs). I think the point I'm just trying to make is this: Lockwood swords are being sold on KoA. Within that vendor's price range are those "tried and tested" high end brands. His work is an unknown quantity. Moreover, it's not on ATrim-level rarity - it's basically production piece (or that how it's being marketed). Given this, the work could be worth that much. It could be worth more. Or it could be worth less. That is a mostly subjective category. But given his relative "newness," at least within the collecting circle, it's a pretty bold move to set the price that high right off the bat. I would appreciate a video of how he makes his swords, how he heat treats them, destructive testing, etc., but I find none. So why would I risk $900 on an unknown quantity instead of going for an Albion, A&A, ATrim, Odinblade, or a custom smith? That's just the question on some people's minds. Doesn't mean we suspect him of scamming us, but that we as potential consumers/customers, are asking for more details of the swords, especially given the price. Oh, and I think custom work is something that should always be higher than production.
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Scott
Member
Posts: 1,676
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Post by Scott on Feb 10, 2016 12:46:41 GMT
But you have to charge what you are worth, Tinker didn't start out with low prices, either did Chenness and you all praise him to the high heaven. Ablion didn't start out cheap either. This. Angus Trim could tell you about the problems that come from under pricing your work. Tom Kinder could add a few things too. He should be charging a price that reflects the cost of production. Charging less means he'll end up in financial difficulty and go out of business, and I think everyone would agree that more sword makers is a good thing. If anyone really wants to know about his production methods, why not ask him?
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Post by Bryan Heff on Feb 10, 2016 14:43:00 GMT
I didn't get the impression anybody was attacking or being mean or criticizing on Lockwood. Of course he can charge what ever he wants, that's free market capitalism. The comment simply was, at that price point many people are going to hesitate to pull the $800 trigger since there is not really a track record. Not a big deal...
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Post by Gunnar Wolfgard on Feb 10, 2016 15:03:05 GMT
That's all we're trying to say, if I have $800 in my hand am I going to buy an unknown makers sword or am I going to buy a sword from a maker who's been around a long time and has a proven record. Even Albion has medium priced swords in their Squire Line. If Lockwood started with a sword in the $400 range to get his work out there rather than jumping right into the $800 - $1200 range he could make a name for himself. Like I said he was smart enough to let KOA sell his swords so their reputation should help him get started.
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Post by Gunnar Wolfgard on Feb 10, 2016 15:20:30 GMT
But most importantly HE HAS NO VIKING SWORDS. Everyone has at least one Viking sword in their line.
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Post by Iradei on Feb 10, 2016 16:03:59 GMT
Amen to that !
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Post by Uncle Mack on Feb 10, 2016 17:21:17 GMT
This thread went from an honest, "Who is this guy?" to defending his pricing structure/praising anything made by a US-based maker. Very entertaining...
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Post by William Swiger on Feb 10, 2016 17:37:47 GMT
We just need to wait and see how his products are rated by those who buy them and see how they compare with the competition. They appear to be competing in a market with the big boys of production swords. I am personally excited to see some new US made blades entering the market.
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Post by L Driggers (fallen) on Feb 10, 2016 17:51:21 GMT
I'm sure if you contacted him he would make you a viking sword the way you want it.
At least he's not Angel sword wanting to charge &8000.00 or more for a super steel sword.
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Luka
Senior Forumite
Posts: 2,848
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Post by Luka on Feb 10, 2016 18:31:17 GMT
It's a bit pointless talking about his prices when we don't know his quality. His mistake is not that he set his prices too high, but that he didn't introduce himself with some testing videos, maybe sending a sword or two to reviewers, etc... I would tend to believe his swords are worth the asking price since he did work for Valiant, and Valiant dudes know how to make a good sword. Of course, I would appreciate his swords more if they were inspired by certain originals, at least in the beginning, because he is now on the shelf "looks nice, more historically plausible than correct, performance probably good, but not sure if accurate for the type of sword or just good in general". If that makes sense to you... ;)
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Post by Lukas MG (chenessfan) on Feb 11, 2016 0:42:23 GMT
More players on the market is a good thing and I don't think the issue is the price itself. As Driggers said, you really shouldn't undercharge your work (well, you probably need to a bit in the beginning and then raise prices as you get better known and also simply get better as well but overall, ask what you think you are worth). Also, in the beginning everybody is unknown and you have to hope someone will take the risk and buy your work.
However, Croccifixio raises the most important point: nobody really knows anything about this maker and his work. There are no "how-it's-made" videos, no cutting or performance tests, no reviews, just some pics and stats. And a hefty price tag that keeps (most) people from just trying it out blind-folded. What that guy should be doing is send out a few swords to be reviewed by someone people trust and in general be transparent about how he does things. That might interest people enough to get a few sales and from then on, it just comes down to how good his stuff is.
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Post by sonofarwyn on Feb 11, 2016 2:38:49 GMT
I get the concerns, but I think is a good thing to have options and see someone step into the market. After all, seen any new Tinkers lately? Atrims? Few and far between. I like my Albions, but you DONT get them fast. My last new one took a year. If he can actually deliver a decent sword in 90 days, color me impressed. Especially if they are Albion quality. The pictures look good, I would like to get my hands on one and see. And lets face it guys, we have Albion, and A&A in this price range for US makers. Gus sells the odd sword now and then through KOA. Past that, your looking at custom or semi custom for more dollars. More options are a good thing, assuming they perform. I like the look of the XIIa, XIIIa, and XVIIb pics. Might be my tax return present this year. More importantly, if Sonny thinks he is a good guy, that's a hell on an endorsement. Sonny's customer service is top notch. If he is vouching for him, I am willing to give the guy a shot.
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Post by Croccifixio on Feb 15, 2016 1:50:39 GMT
A very good point by Gus Trim on FB:
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Post by hoplos on Feb 15, 2016 2:40:59 GMT
I really hope it works out. Glad to see another emerging player with hopefully their own unique strengths in the production sword market. I like the looks of the xviiib. Would like to know some thickness measurements.
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Post by Dave Kelly on Feb 15, 2016 2:47:59 GMT
I started this, didn't I?
First I wasn't sure if Steve Lockwood was the Sonny apprentice I recalled. Answer is yes.
In the half dozen years I have known Sonny I have heard him more than once bemoan the trap he had put himself in, going for volumne and keeping his prices ridiculously LOW. We all like or luv what Sonny has done for us. I've got 4 of his swords I cherish. For 700.00 ( constantly discounted in dry months) you get a sword with all sorts of customizable options for a pittance and the real ball buster is that you get a Suttles scabbard and rig FOR FREE. By right a Suttles longsword and kit would reasonably be worth 1100.00.
Apparently Mr Lockwood is going for broke and after an apprentiship he's linked with KoA with an impressive line.
Hope someone buys in and spreads the word. I have a problem. I've got 35 medis. Maybe there are one or two of these I might consider selling off to make room for a Lockwood, but I've reached a point where I'm not looking so much anymore. ( I was gonna stop around 80, 100, 150 but oivey, 200! ) Besides I'm more easily swayed to an 19th Century purchase or two A&A rapiers that I never pulled the trigger for.
So good luck to him.
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Post by Gunnar Wolfgard on Feb 15, 2016 4:37:09 GMT
Speaking of Sonny, we have got to figure out a way to light a fire under him to get his Suontaka going. I thought that after Albion sold out on the Valkyrja that unless I found a used one that I wasn't going to get one. Then Sonny posted pictures of a prototype of his and I was back in the hunt. Since he posted the pictures he has come out with two other Viking swords but no Suontaka. This is going to be my burial sword but I don't want them to have to dig me back up to put it in the box with me. Guess I'll just have to stick around until I get one no matter how moldy I get.
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Post by chrisperoni on Feb 15, 2016 6:21:32 GMT
Wolfgard, you just can't get over the wait lol. Next time it's going to be "speaking of swords..." then it'll just be "speaking of speaking..."
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Post by William Swiger on Feb 15, 2016 7:42:13 GMT
I spent a few years tracking down an Albion Valkyrja in new condition for a fair price. If you have 2k, Jeffrey Robinson has one for sale: www.bronzebyjeffreyjrobinson.com/Suontaka.htmlOther than the cross section, the sword looks very good. I think he will do payment plans as well.
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Post by MOK on Feb 15, 2016 10:07:57 GMT
Just a thought here, maybe his prices are based on how much his swords cost to make. That would be the sane thing to do, yes.
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