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Post by ineffableone on Apr 19, 2015 6:20:50 GMT
Well Lars has released a half admission of his false claims.
He admits that back quivers existed rather than his claim of them being invented by Hollywood.
He admits he can't achieve accuracy like Brian Ferguson.
But he fails to admit that he did not rediscover anything. He admits others knew about the techniques but fails to admit there were people doing these techniques before him.
He also fails to understand the reason someone faults him on the right hand shooting, completely neglecting to respond to the issue of different draw techniques. Lars uses a pinch technique which can only be used on low power bows. Any higher poundage bow you have to either use the medertaerian/3 finger draw or a thumb ring. Both will impart a spin on the string that moves to the arrow when you release. Mediterranean draw you have to place the arrow on the opposite side, thumb ring the other side. Neither still can you switch back and forth.
His new video just shows how much of a sham the guy is, still trying to hold onto the claims he made originally while admitting to some falsehoods.
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Post by Rifleman Lizard on Apr 20, 2015 12:18:02 GMT
Waiting for the other half before I jump to conclusions. ;)
Notice the use of the word 'probably'.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2015 12:58:34 GMT
I'm not sure if we just watched a different video, but...
"But he fails to admit that he did not rediscover anything. He admits others knew about the techniques but fails to admit there were people doing these techniques before him."
He actually claims he's the first to relearn what was written in the old books for speed shooting technique, obviously the guys who wrote the book were the ones that discovered it! If it's in a description in a book then someone quite obviously was doing it to be described.
"He also fails to understand the reason someone faults him on the right hand shooting, completely neglecting to respond to the issue of different draw techniques. Lars uses a pinch technique which can only be used on low power bows."
He admits using a low power bow because he doesn't have the physical strength to draw a 120lb war bow as the example he cites. The low power bow lets him use his trick-shooting technique, just like Olympic archers with their 30# recurves who can use piddly thin carbon weigh-nothing knitting needle arrows to get flat trajectories, it's not that different.
"His new video just shows how much of a sham the guy is, still trying to hold onto the claims he made originally while admitting to some falsehoods."
On the contrary in my opinion his video provides a reasonable response to his critics.
Look, it's just trick shooting, it's no big deal, enjoy it for what it is. If someone else was doing the same trick shooting he's doing they would have just called him out and staked their claim instead. Trick shooting is just another arm of archery, as is target and hunting archery. I could bag the crap out of target archers with their ridiculous equipment which is so far removed from real hunting or war bow archery but it's their thing and they're happy with it, so live and let live I say. :)
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Post by Gunnar Wolfgard on Apr 20, 2015 15:25:51 GMT
I make it a habit not to criticize or put down someone who can do it better than I can because where does that put me.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2015 1:08:42 GMT
That's a brutally honest piece of wisdom but I like it! :)
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Post by Croccifixio on Apr 21, 2015 5:21:48 GMT
I half-agree (haha) with that Gunnar.
Putting down someone is always a wrong thing, even if there are good intentions behind that. But criticizing someone intelligently/reasonably without putting him/her down is not just for the benefit those who might have been misled by that someone but also for that person's own edification. It's a form of correction that has its roots in regard for that person's well being. I'm not going to put down a friend who drives like a formula 1 driver on the highway but I will criticize him for his own sake. I won't put down a professional basketball player for missing a game-winning shot but I will criticize him for not passing to an open teammate.
Lars in this instance has claimed things that might mislead others to think that (1) there is a "hidden" or secret form of archery, (2) he has unearthed them from historical texts/images, and (3) he has executed a more historically-accurate form of combat archery. All these have been shown by others, some through valid criticism, some through visceral put downs, to be inaccurate.
I myself do no archery but if I just watched Lars' first video without reading/watching all the responses to it, I might be led into thinking that "wow, that's how archers used to do it! Lars is amazing and should be credited for rediscovering true archery!" instead of knowing that "wow, he's a pretty good trick shooter."
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Post by svante on Apr 21, 2015 9:14:18 GMT
I enjoyed both videos, i knew his facts where iffy in the first one, but i have more than once, if not always given simplified historical facts on things i know very well, simply because like he said there is no time and you want the person to come out of it with the right conclusions, even if they don't have the 100% correct and detailed information. If everybody where to explain everything extensively, it would take 3-5 years on each subject, and that's called University  . |
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Post by MOK on Apr 21, 2015 11:17:32 GMT
What he's doing is still just trick shooting, NOT the real martial art of ancient archers as he claims, and he did NOT "rediscover" any of it. The original video is still composed entirely of half-truths and outright lies.
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Post by Rifleman Lizard on Apr 21, 2015 12:52:19 GMT
What he's doing is still just trick shooting, NOT the real martial art of ancient archers as he claims, and he did NOT "rediscover" any of it. The original video is still composed entirely of half-truths and outright lies. You got there before I did this morning, MOK. Rushing to his defence or not, it doesn't change the fact he lied his way onto the archery circuit. He 'rediscovered' nothing and insulted our intelligence in the process. As far as I'm concerned this leaves his open to criticism. Nobody is asking him to shoot a warbow or tow the line with any one discipline or another... people are just sick of his misrepresentation. Notice only a slight shift in his attitudes however. "Lars has reinvented these hidden methods." to "I was probably the first one who's learned to do it." Well... neither of those are true. That should be obvious when celebrity archers (people already doing it for decades) called him out on his claim. |
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Post by Rifleman Lizard on Apr 21, 2015 12:58:54 GMT
I make it a habit not to criticize or put down someone who can do it better than I can because where does that put me. That would be more relevant if people were criticizing him for doing his thing and not his claims, proven to be blatant falsehoods. Nobody is calling him out on his trick shooting. Humorously, it took everyone long enough (see the other thread) to even call it that much and not the secret squirrel military archery Lars said it was. They were calling him out on his bullsemprini. There's an important distinction. |
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Post by Gunnar Wolfgard on Apr 21, 2015 13:58:30 GMT
All he's doing is being a showman. No different than Evil Knievel, Muhammad Ali, Steve Erwin or any of the others. To stand out in a crowd you have to make a little noise to attract attention to yourself. Outragious claims is what put all of them in the public eye. What all of you are doing is helping him get what he's looking for, recognition and free publicity. The more you criticize him the more people who haven't heard of him will want to check him out. It's all part of the game of showmanship.
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Post by ineffableone on Apr 21, 2015 15:08:09 GMT
I make it a habit not to criticize or put down someone who can do it better than I can because where does that put me. That would be more relevant if people were criticizing him for doing his thing and not his claims, proven to be blatant falsehoods. Nobody is calling him out on his trick shooting. Humorously, it took everyone long enough (see the other thread) to even call it that much and not the secret squirrel military archery Lars said it was. They were calling him out on his bullsemprini. There's an important distinction. Yep, it is not his trick shooting that got him in trouble with archers, it is his bogus claims. A lot of archers would actually give him a lot of credit for his trick shooting, if he had just not made ridiculous claims that misrepresent the history of archery. Brian Ferguson is a great example of how a great trick shooter doesn't need to make outrageous claims to gain notoriety. The man is amazing and has been recognized as such numerous ways. |
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Post by Rifleman Lizard on Apr 21, 2015 15:43:01 GMT
All he's doing is being a showman. No different than Evil Knievel, Muhammad Ali, Steve Erwin or any of the others. To stand out in a crowd you have to make a little noise to attract attention to yourself. Outragious claims is what put all of them in the public eye. What all of you are doing is helping him get what he's looking for, recognition and free publicity. The more you criticize him the more people who haven't heard of him will want to check him out. It's all part of the game of showmanship. Not at all. That's what Lars would be doing if he identified solely as a trick shooter, an entertainer and a showman. He doesn't. Instead he'll spoonfeed us absolute tosh about the history of archery and wrongly stake his claim as a pioneer in the field. There'll always be two sides to every subject. If more people see Lars' exploits and start trick-shooting, that's cool but that doesn't concern me as it's not my field. If more people see Lars, get into military archery (as he himself claims he is), and qualified coaches then need to deconstruct what he's been telling them in his videos... in order to get them shooting traditional bows with proficiency and historical technique; then I'll gladly call a spade and spade and point out that he's full of crap. The fact he hides his massive speed nocks in his speed-shooting scenes speaks volumes. Louder still, dismissing the SP video, made by a qualified instructor, as nothing but "someone making a funny video." is a blatant cop out. Her response to the above: "Just saw Lars' "rebuttal". He spends most of his own video back peddling like a bad politician, and one moment dismissing a single claim in our video that was based on his own citation or (as he points out) lack of a proper citation. 'Well if they had read more than just the passage I was basing my hyperbolic claims on, they wouldn't have been able to make that one particular correction amongst all the other flaws they point out, but I don't have time to back peddle over all those right now' ... We're totally devastated (not to mention still being cited by fellow archers, historians, and science journals)" Showmanship, lies, tomato, tomahto ;) |
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Post by bigpete on Apr 22, 2015 9:53:11 GMT
All I can say is I whole heartedly agree with ineffableone and riflemanlizard,I need not get all het up over more of Lars' rubbish. :-)
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Post by demonking on May 31, 2016 12:13:34 GMT
i would not care too much about his claims if he didnt say that his way of archery was better. he also claimed that his way of shooting would of been effective in combat. i highly doubt that low poundage bows would do much damage at all. because of this video i bet loads of people entered archery with totally unrealistic expectations.
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Post by jammer on May 31, 2016 12:24:31 GMT
Does anyone know if it is possible to shoot a left handed bow with a shelf right handed/eyed, using a euro three fingered grip?
I have heard contradictory answers wrt paradox, and I don't want to fork out cash to find out.
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Post by mrbadexample on May 31, 2016 12:38:56 GMT
It's possible, but very tough. I have done it, but my accuracy suffered significantly.
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Post by jammer on May 31, 2016 15:03:48 GMT
Danke Mr BE
Was that due to the spine contacting or some other reason, do you think?
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Post by highlander200268 on May 31, 2016 16:09:09 GMT
Anyone who has shot archery for a long time knows it is about consistency and form, with him he is all over the place, and the videos he shows he never shows where he misses which is probably a lot considering his poor form and very low poundage bow, i would love to see him do this with a 150# war bow and not a 15-20lb
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Post by jammer on May 31, 2016 17:08:27 GMT
Anyone who has shot archery for a long time knows it is about consistency and form, with him he is all over the place, and the videos he shows he never shows where he misses which is probably a lot considering his poor form and very low poundage bow, i would love to see him do this with a 150# war bow and not a 15-20lb Shooting archery for a long time could just be an echo chamber, no? I'm interested in the physics of paradox and experience of loading the shelf from the "wrong" side. Looking to hit at about 15 metres or less. Do you have any experience of that to share? |
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Things have changed!