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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2008 4:33:45 GMT
Hello I've came home yesterday with another collection of bruises from the sparing session. While the obvious answer to this problem is "don't get hit!", until I reach that level of proficiency (if ever), I think I'm going to need better protection than a helmet and a shield www.casiberia.com/product_details.asp?id=AB0143My instructor can get his hands on this for me at a fair price. I know a Gambeson doesn't offer the same kind of protection vs edged weapons as chain or plate does, but they do offer protection, and should do quite nicely vs the padded swords we are using. Has anyone used it? Comments would be appreciated. cheers, Ancalagon
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2008 13:59:32 GMT
You can't go wrong with a good gambeson That one looks well made and should do you well. The downside is that if you use a gambeson then your body won't be conditioned by being hit. Being hit is, believe it or not, a good thing as long as nothing is getting broken. It is regulation in the re-enactment circles that you have a gambe and a helmet and gloves if nothing else, they are the minimum requirements. You could also make yourself a gambe for a lot cheaper than the casiberia one.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2008 17:25:27 GMT
From what I can see, it is poly-fill. Which means that it won't breathe at all. I would look around and see if you can find someone who can help you make one. That way you can make it as thick as you need in certain spots, and thinner in others. Mine has zero padding in the arms, just two layers of canvas, but the chest area has padding that is about 3/8" thick. I do SCA fighting, and with the exception of a kidney belt, that is the only upper body protection I have. I would take a look at White Mountain Armoury's site. His wife put up a PDF about making gambesons.
The other trick I have learned is for a earlier style gambeson (pre Charles de Blois), to get full movement out of the sleeve area, all that is needed is an inset sleeve with a small diamond gusset underneath. It gives you full range of motion, without complex sewing. The top of the sleeve should attach at the ball of your shoulder, and then have the chest area cover the rest of your shoulder with padding. Take a look at the Mac Bible for a visual reference.
Remember, natural fibers are your friend. Cotton filling, or even better, futon filling and linen or cotton canvas shell will keep you more comfortable in all kinds of weather.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2008 0:00:43 GMT
According to the manufacturer...
"Made of five layers! Three layers of wool, an outer layer of canvas, and an inner layer made of soft cloth. Stiched through."
I think that should be good no?
Oswyn, I'm surprised you don't use something padded on your arms - so far I get hit on the arms a lot more than on the body.
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Post by rammstein on Apr 19, 2008 0:03:45 GMT
correct me if I'm wrong...aren't gamebesons usually like 20 layers thick?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2008 0:48:00 GMT
Ramm, you are thinking of Jacks, circa about HYW and WOTR (Hundred Years War and War of the Roses).
Technically, what I wear is an aketon, which is designed to be worn as a stand-alone garment. Gambesons (according to archeological agreement and understanding) were designed to be worn under armour (be it mail, transitional or plate).
If all of the layers are pure natural fibers, it should be ok. Wool is deceptively hot as a padding substance (most people I know use cotton or linen), but it would work. The parts I would worry about more are the "canvas" (possibly 100% cotton, and if so, great) and the deceptive "soft cloth" inner.
Ancalagon, I use mine as protection in the SCA. Most of the time I don't get hit in the arm, and I have just started to wear a leather vambrace under the sleeve for those shots that do get through. They were bazubands, but I took a shot to the back of the elbow after it slipped that made me decide to go back to my low-profile elbows, and convert the right one to a vambrace. The only reason I am adding it now is that my forearms are pretty skinny, and the bone on the outside of my arm has been hit several times. Serious ouch, but nothing broken.
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Post by rammstein on Apr 19, 2008 0:50:16 GMT
Ah ha! That's it, thanks ;D
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2008 0:17:29 GMT
I was actually considering that gambeson and I had my armorer look at it. He told me no-way. The main issue is that the polyester stuffing will cause you to overheat. So unless you will be fighting only outdoors in the winter time... not a good idea. The other issue for me is that it is too thick to wear mail or a coat of plates over, but I can understand not everyone will. Take a look look at this alternative. For an extra $75 you get one make from linen and cotton that can breath. www.revival.us/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=83Having been around SCA and WMA people, another issue with gambesons is that you want to be able to lift your arm without the whole jacket raising. At the same time you don't want it to be baggy under your arms. Here is a link to a Gambeson I just bought for $325 + $50 for the arming cap. /index.cgi?board=otherweaponreviews&action=display&thread=5309
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Razor
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Post by Razor on Jun 21, 2008 4:05:00 GMT
I was actually considering that gambeson and I had my armorer look at it. He told me no-way. The main issue is that the polyester stuffing will cause you to overheat. So unless you will be fighting only outdoors in the winter time... not a good idea. The other issue for me is that it is too thick to wear mail or a coat of plates over, but I can understand not everyone will. I have this gambeson and it is thick, it is more of like stand along armor. It's good for light troops with a helm and a gorget. Maybe a breast plate but not that much more. The tag says 100% cotton inside and 80% wool 20% polyester.
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Post by swordboy bringer of chaos on Jun 21, 2008 4:30:25 GMT
how hard would this be to make
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Razor
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Post by Razor on Jun 21, 2008 4:43:56 GMT
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Post by swordboy bringer of chaos on Jun 21, 2008 5:01:05 GMT
oh! well that answers that now doesn't it ......... thanks
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2008 0:16:14 GMT
how hard would this be to make If you like to sew... not at all. I know one guy the made his own gambeson and breastplate too. There is a big learning curve if you don't already sew. If I was interested in making a gambeson myself I would seek the advise of one of the sewing groups in the SCA. I know a woman that spins her own thread from sheep's wool. You can find a lot of people in the SCA to help you along those lines if you are interested. Compared to sewing, paying $325 for a Rivaval gambeson was a lot easier for me.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2008 2:12:47 GMT
Hello
So I did buy it, and I did wear it for several sparring matches.
The upside is that isn't not that heavy (nothing compared to chainmail) and it offers great protection for sparing. I was worried the stiffness would be an issue, but not at all. The downside is how hot it gets if it is warm to begin with, especially if you are wearing a helmet. Overall, I am very happy with it, and it certainly was worth the price.
Ancalagon
P.S. My sparing helmet is a hockey helmet. Not period at all (neither are my lacrosse gloves) but they really do the trick.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2008 12:59:40 GMT
Now you'll have to post some fighting videos in the fighting thread
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Post by chakobsa on Jun 27, 2008 18:26:21 GMT
Try the Hanwei rapier jacket, it's cheap and offers a good level of protection to the torso from thrusts and strikes. It has no sleeves, so you might want to use some sort of elbow protection. IMHO, it looks better as well, If you wear one women will desire you and men will envy your obvious sartorial and martial prowess, ;D
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2008 0:07:50 GMT
Try the Hanwei rapier jacket, it's cheap and offers a good level of protection to the torso from thrusts and strikes. It has no sleeves, so you might want to use some sort of elbow protection. IMHO, it looks better as well, If you wear one women will desire you and men will envy your obvious sartorial and martial prowess, ;D My gf has that one I think (can't seem to find it on the site?). While she does like it, I can't help but note it offers no arm protection at all - and I get hit on the arms more than on the torso. Now I need knee protection .... *looks at huge bruises*
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Post by chakobsa on Jun 28, 2008 17:59:16 GMT
Try the Hanwei rapier jacket, it's cheap and offers a good level of protection to the torso from thrusts and strikes. It has no sleeves, so you might want to use some sort of elbow protection. IMHO, it looks better as well, If you wear one women will desire you and men will envy your obvious sartorial and martial prowess, ;D My gf has that one I think (can't seem to find it on the site?). While she does like it, I can't help but note it offers no arm protection at all - and I get hit on the arms more than on the torso. Now I need knee protection .... *looks at huge bruises* How about something like this; www.mister-solutions.co.uk/knee-and-shin-guards-ideal-for-brushcutter-use-2739-p.asp
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2008 22:56:09 GMT
Hello folks
I thought I would give an update on this purchase.
Wearing this during a summer tournament turned out to be as "fun" as I expected. However, by drinking a lot, staying in the shade - and especially because it was a bit windy and only 26 C (only 80 F for you Americans), it definitely was manageable.
While I still am finding that this gambeson is giving me good protection, now is the time for the not so good part - a small section under my right (ie sword) arm is starting to unravel. This hasn't happened to the other few who do have one, so it may be a fluke. The instructor's wife took some photos and is writting to hangwei to see what's up with that. Maybe I got bad lucky and got a "lemon"?
I will keep you guys updated as to the resolution of this situation.
cheers,
Ancalagon
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2008 2:48:07 GMT
well.. its a production gambe... what much can you expect?
I'm in about the same boat as you, trying to find a suitable gambe. however, my problem is that period/workable gambesons with 15th cent harnesses arn't very protective on its own... so I might have to grab another one just for unarmed practice(or I might just go with some hockey gear... who knows).
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