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Post by Alex.Moranz on Jan 8, 2015 19:25:14 GMT
Well spoken Draven. Also dig your tag line BTW as "The Children of Hurin" is my favorite book. Would love to have a custom Gurthang one day should funds allow.
Arthur I can understand your point as there are certain factors that cannot be seen by the consumer that could cause a catastrophic malfunction with both fire arms and swords. And I respect your views and enjoy reading your posts, this is in no way an attack on you, just a few points I would like to make.
Let us also not forget that while the helicopter of death is a scary scenario, it can also happen to even a sound blade. All it takes is for the user to lose his/her grip on the sword and off it goes. I have seen this happen, not with a sword, but with a wood axe. Definitely had some momentum behind it, fortunately it missed me.
Yet with firearms, if you do not inspect the pieces of that weapon before and after the range, then you are responsible for any failure that might happen. (this is of course only applying to failures or faults that can be seen by the human eye). Also while yes muzzle awareness and trigger safety is important, you are also responsible for where those rounds go. If you do not have an appropriate back stop or are unaware of what is behind your target then you are at fault for any damages.
Draven inspected his sword, recognized a fault, brought it to our attention and then showed us the results of his cutting session. All very valuable info which he sent to RK. Now let us see what RK will do with it.
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Post by Arthur Dayne on Jan 8, 2015 19:45:25 GMT
I don't mean any insult or hostility either Alex though I sometimes may come off like that, my target is the vendor.. not you my good man. I am a lot harder on vendors/sellers/manufacturers than I am buyers since it's our hard earned money they are getting but I get what you mean.
For entry level Euro swords- Windlass, Hanwei and now currently Ronin Katana, I do have hopes because a 3rd entry level option for quality Euro swords is highly welcomed, there's only so many Hanwei and Windlass models I like... make up this scene and more good options the better. So far the customer service seems good and I am happy to hear things are moving forward in a good way for both parties, looking forward to hearing more about the replacement and other product line ups.
Edited:
Looks like we won't get to see that replacement sword from RK. At least the OP has a sword now that he can enjoy.
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Post by Adrian Jordan on Jan 8, 2015 20:44:33 GMT
Hey guys, let me be clear about something. There is an undercurrent of "Be gentle with your criticism of Ronin Katana or you'll be punished." That's not any more true of them than it is of any other vendor.
Me, I got a good product with a quick turnaround time. Then I got a flawed product, then received incredible customer service and a replacement for it. My experience with Ronin has been fantastic. That needs to be known.
Neo_one, you got a shoddy product, then received terrible customer service. That needs to be known. You mentioning that is the correct thing to do if you want to help out your fellow sword enthusiasts.
The Incredible Holg, you got a product with sub-par fit. That needs to be known. It is also the very correct thing to do to mention it.
What gets a fellow in trouble is when they become sarcastic, rude or aggressive about these things, whether it's about the good or the bad. If you continually, aggressively insist that a vendor is terrible, for what ever reasons, you begin to step into vendor bashing territory. Then you are in violation of the rules. If you are snide or sarcastic, then you are being rude and disrespectful and are stepping into the realm of receiving punitive action by a moderator.
Yes, Ronin Katana are sold in the store. So are Cheness and DSA. They get pummeled regularly here, and nobody is punished unless they go beyond the rules. Stay within the confines of the rules with your critisism and/or recommendations and you will be good. Don't and you will receive a warning, suspension or ban. This goes for everybody in any thread.
The OP has done us a service by posting the review and subsequent failure of the sword. He's even considered going against his first instincts and getting a replacement just to see if this is a one-off mistake or an ongoing problem. Please don't disrespect him by turning this thread into something it's not, or by getting it locked.
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Post by Draven on Jan 8, 2015 22:12:26 GMT
Adrian, thanks for putting that in. Judging by some comments I think it needed to be said. I decided to fix the problem myself - I came to the conclusion that while I have confidence that the next sword wouldn't have had this problem, I didn't want to feel unsafe with it. I went with Brendan's method stated previously with a slight modification - I took a steel bolt with about a 3" unthreaded body and 3/4" threaded end, cut it to the size I needed, cut a slot in the tang (it wound up being about 1 1/4" deep) and having it welded in. My old man didn't feel comfortable doing it himself, so we went to a guy he'd had some welding work done by and he fixed it up. I filed it down a little, tempered the tang/weld area and put it back together. One water bottle down and all is well thus far! All in all, I'm happy and bear no ill will. I will update the first post of the thread with the pertinent information. Well spoken Draven. Also dig your tag line BTW as "The Children of Hurin" is my favorite book. Would love to have a custom Gurthang one day should funds allow. I as well! A true tragedy - the Hobbit probably takes my top spot just because it has sentimental value (first book I remember being read, first I read on my own) but putting that aside, Children of Hurin is likely my favorite as well.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2015 23:10:10 GMT
When good theories go bad. Lutel uses 10mm threaded rod and the tang slot near a third the length of the rod. Cleanly welded, it becomes a non issue with this approach. Temperature and method play a great part. a small section will overheat, often resulting in overheating and failure. Knife makers have done this for years by silver soldering instead of welding and this would be preferable for small diameter ron to tang junctures. the steel grade and heat treat of the threaded rod also plays a part.
This manufacture really does look hasty and slipshod, even at the price point. That all models are priced the same just points to large profit for cheap manufacture. Step up and either absorb the cost of better manufacture or price accordingly for a better product. What we see here just puts the entire effort as suspect and this entire lot should sell at a discount or returned to the source. As sponsored by SBG, I hope Paul will step up in halting all sales before further disappointment occurs.
Sad but true.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2015 23:54:19 GMT
Whatever the situation with RK and myself isn't isolated to just me. I have heard a lot from others in PM that were not satisfied but never posted in forums. I am from the UK and a store a bought it from called 'oriental-weaponry' listed on there site that they are on of the few stores to sell RK as they are very DISCRIMINATING about who they sell too.
Alarm bells should have rung there and then.
So when i received a very poor sword, I contacted the vendor who contacted RK and they were not co-operative in helping me nor the vendor.
Shoddy, shoddy, shoddy with no excuse. I had to get an independent review from a specialist in order to asses the sword was not fit for purpose within a day of handling.
Kind of like this story of a European Sword breaking on a water bottle! Somebody said these are swords and would be careful who's around. For a breakage from a mild swing? Swords then should take a fair amount of abuse. I don't see the logic there.
Imagine this isn't RK who made the sword but was made by a blacksmith who forged a 100 swords for his medieval army. If they all had this issue then that's 100 dead soldiers. No excuse. If a sword breaks like that it's useless on the battlefield no matter how good the blade is.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2015 0:41:57 GMT
A general note on making inferences (about vendors or anything else), not directed at anyone. Unless you know conclusively something about a whole population (such as EVERY sword produced by a vendor) then you cannot state anything definitively about the said population. That's why statistics exist, to make inferences about the population from a sample. Most things follow a normal distribution, which is represented by a bell-shaped graph, where the majority of cases lie around the 'mean', think of this as the average, and there is a small percentage of cases either side. There might be a handful of exceptionally well made and a handful of faulty swords in a batch of hundreds. These are not representative of the average, what you'd expect, but are exceptions. These exceptions are on the outer edges of the normal distribution of the bell-shaped graph, these are extreme 'outliers' and are not representative of the sample. To infer from a few limited cases that the whole population of swords is flawed is logically flawed. Only if we get case after case of reports of bad quality, as has happened with some vendors, we can safely infer that the average blade you have a high probability of getting will be faulty.
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Post by Arthur Dayne on Jan 9, 2015 0:50:06 GMT
A general note on making inferences (about vendors or anything else), not directed at anyone. Unless you know conclusively something about a whole population (such as EVERY sword produced by a vendor) then you cannot state anything definitively about the said population. That's why statistics exist, to make inferences about the population from a sample. Most things follow a normal distribution, which is represented by a bell-shaped graph, where the majority of cases lie around the 'mean', think of this as the average, and there is a small percentage of cases either side. There might be a handful of exceptionally well made and a handful of faulty swords in a batch of hundreds. These are not representative of the average, what you'd expect, but are exceptions. These exceptions are on the outer edges of the normal distribution of the bell-shaped graph, these are extreme 'outliers' and are not representative of the sample. To infer from a few limited cases that the whole population of swords is flawed is logically flawed. Only if we get case after case of reports of bad quality, as has happened with some vendors, we can safely infer that the average blade you have a high probability of getting will be faulty. I am now fully convinced that Neo and Holg are both absolutely right. I don't recall anyone bringing in standard deviation, probability laws and other lessons when it came to vendors like Ryansword, Katana1980, , Hanwei Tinker, Valiant Armoury, Huawei, Hanbon or Windlass's short comings and issues.
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Post by Adrian Jordan on Jan 9, 2015 1:07:15 GMT
Thread is being temporarily locked.
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Avery
Member
Manufacturer/Vendor
"It's alright little brother... There are more!!!
Posts: 1,826
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Post by Avery on Jan 23, 2015 15:56:30 GMT
Okay, so now that this has been unlocked, I'll toss a couple of pennies out here. I was debating on whether or not to pick one of these up and this thread seals the deal. I'll be ordering one in the next couple of weeks and do a full review. This is a new line and growing pains are bound to happen. I think Chris is a great guy, but since I don't own any Ronin products, I wont state my opinions about them till I do. I wont be ordering this particular model, but it will be one of the long swords.
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Post by William Swiger on Jan 23, 2015 17:20:41 GMT
Looking forward to your review Avery.
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Post by Draven on Jan 23, 2015 23:34:44 GMT
I also look forward to your review Avery!
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Post by Curtis_Louis on Jan 24, 2015 20:00:25 GMT
I'm right there with Avery. I'm planning to get my hands on the triple fuller long sword. I'm dyin' to see for myself.
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Post by MLanteigne on Mar 6, 2015 17:14:53 GMT
Sorry to resurrect this, but Avery did you end up getting one? I am going to be in the market in the next month or so, and am deciding between RK's Longsword and the H/T Longsword.
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Post by MLanteigne on Mar 6, 2015 17:15:55 GMT
Disregard, found the thread!
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Post by Insane on Mar 7, 2015 3:34:35 GMT
Sorry to resurrect this, but Avery did you end up getting one? I am going to be in the market in the next month or so, and am deciding between RK's Longsword and the H/T Longsword. Without ever handeling the RK i say go for the H/T. The price to quality ratio is just awesome.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2015 16:31:57 GMT
Sorry to resurrect this, but Avery did you end up getting one? I am going to be in the market in the next month or so, and am deciding between RK's Longsword and the H/T Longsword. Without ever handeling the RK i say go for the H/T. The price to quality ratio is just awesome. Definitely! No doubt there!
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Post by tea on Oct 16, 2015 23:39:56 GMT
Have there been any other reviews of this line and any conclusions as to how common the defect is with the weld on the threaded extension to the tang?
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Post by Adrian Jordan on Oct 17, 2015 1:13:07 GMT
There are a few reviews floating around the Sword Review section. It's not 100% across the board. Not every sword bought has the tang issues. We are cautious because there have been a few reviews posted here, and most of them have had the issue. As such, we cannot account for the dozens or hundreds of these swords sold, but we can say that the ones bought by members and reviewed here were largely affected.
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Post by tea on Oct 17, 2015 3:39:31 GMT
Well, I just bought the #2 longsword that Kult of Athena is offering for $125 close out special. I'll be sure to carefully inspect the weld and report what I find. What would be a good way to test the weld other than a visual inspection? If the weld is faulty, I'm going to ask a friend of mine who teaches welding at the local community college where we both teach if he can help me fix it.
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