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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2015 6:33:10 GMT
Agree with Josh's advice. It was great that Tony gave you a refund and confirmed by checking one of the blades there to verify your findings. There is a high chance that is that the forge is passing off fake sanmai to the seller, who just sells on what he ordered. The forge could be scamming the sellers. Give it time to see what happens on the ebay advertisements before you jump the gun, it may be too early to make any definitive conclusions.
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Post by aussie-rabbit on Jan 6, 2015 10:35:33 GMT
Dig's, I appreciate your further testing of seller claims but do we even know if that sword is made of 1095 folded steel? I was under the impression that a mono steel that is folded by itself would not show patterns like this sword does. I have read that two different steel types are needed to achieve that appearance. I am curious and would appreciate if anyone could shed some light on this. -Josh If you fold steel on itself you will get a pattern, up to a point, there is a point where the steel homogenizes, 10 folds (1024 layers) is visible, after that you will need some form of etching.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2015 20:36:19 GMT
Agree with Josh's advice. It was great that Tony gave you a refund and confirmed by checking one of the blades there to verify your findings. There is a high chance that is that the forge is passing off fake sanmai to the seller, who just sells on what he ordered. The forge could be scamming the sellers. Give it time to see what happens on the ebay advertisements before you jump the gun, it may be too early to make any definitive conclusions. Are you serious? The smiths are the bosses of the ones running the eBay stores. They hire English speaking reps to do the sales. Anything about 'the forge was ripping me off' is a load a rubbish.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2015 2:00:56 GMT
Take a look at the thread Demystifying Chinese "Katana" production - sbg-sword-forum.forums.net/thread/32621/Often big forges will manufacture a range of swords, from real low quality cheap stuff to decent high end products, and they will supply a whole lot of sellers, who may look like they're competing, but all their stuff might come from the same place. Is this a one forge, one seller setup?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2015 4:18:59 GMT
Take a look at the thread Demystifying Chinese "Katana" production - sbg-sword-forum.forums.net/thread/32621/Often big forges will manufacture a range of swords, from real low quality cheap stuff to decent high end products, and they wille supply a whole lot of sellers, who may look like they're competing, but all their stuff might come from the same place. Is this a one forge, one seller setup? It will usually be one forge, 10 sellers setup. It actually makes even more sense he got some junk sword because when you pay peanuts and buy it from an already assembled sword that has been mass produced you will get some cheap and nasty sword. It would be a different scenario if you get one custom made, I would be more sympathetic but seriously what do you expect?
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Post by Bob B on Jan 7, 2015 20:21:16 GMT
Hey Digs,
Just caught up to the thread again. Once again, thanks for going through all you did.
Bob
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Post by Bushido on Jan 8, 2015 8:55:09 GMT
Really appreciate the effort you went through to expose frauds like this, awesome job man! Well done, and thank you!
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Post by Robert in California on Jan 8, 2015 15:08:01 GMT
"Are you serious? The smiths are the bosses of the ones running the eBay stores. They hire English speaking reps to do the sales. Anything about 'the forge was ripping me off' is a load a rubbish."
======================== Some sword sellers are big enough to make their own blades. Even smaller sellers do forge some of their own blades. But some of the smaller sellers also buy blades from larger forges. I think that Wang-katana2011 makes their own mono and their own folded blades, but am not so sure about their Kobuse blades....when they first came out with a Kobuse line, their Kobuse swords had a noticeably different style of fittings, especially ito, from their regular line...so much so, I suspected they got them from another sword maker and put them up for sale to see how they sold. Also W-K2011's traditional line was generally topping out at around $200usa. Then come the Kobuse line for about $350usa. But we are only guessing here, until someone asks whatever seller is in question and we get an answer. Asking W-K2011 how they define the word "tamahaganae" would also probably be worth an ask.
Instead of stating guesses and assumptions as facts.
As for Katana1980, a smaller shop, they also have their own swordsmiths but to my knowledge have both made their own blades and have bought blades from other forges. As they do with the fittings.
Where Katana1980 got into trouble, was buying blades from others. When we make something ourselves, we know what it is. When we buy from others we can not be so sure.
RinC
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Post by Robert in California on Jan 8, 2015 15:13:05 GMT
p.s. I lack knowledge for other sword sellers, but I know that re. Katana1980, the swordsmiths work for Tony. And Huawei indicated he has at least two skilled blade smiths. I am just unclear if Jacky is one of them or not.
Paul Southern did us all a great service by visiting Longquan and doing YouTube videos of the inside of sword factory. Anyone who has not watched them, ought to. Shows that in the same building, different qualities and types of swords are made.
RinC
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2015 23:41:36 GMT
Jacky, Lucy who are you really talking too? They all use aliases as well.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2015 0:49:34 GMT
Jacky, Lucy who are you really talking too? They all use aliases as well. Chinese use English names all around the world, that's nothing new, all my Chinese friends do, usually because we gwai lo (鬼佬) have trouble pronouncing their real names.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2015 1:01:26 GMT
Jacky, Lucy who are you really talking too? They all use aliases as well. Chinese use English names all around the world, that's nothing new, all my Chinese friends do, usually because we gwai lo (鬼佬) have trouble pronouncing their real names. Okay then I'll tell you a secret, most Chinese vendors use multiple names on different accounts.
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Post by renancvlr on Jul 27, 2015 19:51:14 GMT
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Post by DigsFossils-n-Knives on Jul 27, 2015 20:28:56 GMT
Ask for clear photos of the blade the seller will be sending you before you buy. It might also help if you tell them you'll be doing a review on the SBG forum and YouTube. BTW: The ebay listing says: AISI 1060 Carbon steel was forged several times, and then shaped and forged to make folded steel. 2 sides of AISI 1095 high carbon steel are added to make a SANMAI configuration.I don't get this, so it's probably a poorly written listing.
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Mikeeman
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Post by Mikeeman on Jul 27, 2015 20:56:32 GMT
I would not pay that price for that sword. For a few reasons: 1. It is folded only. There is no indication that there is a core of different material. And if the construction is as stated, they are putting the hard steel where the softer should be and vice versa. 2. Even for their show photos, the habaki does not seem to fit well. That, and it's that terrible giraffe/turtle pattern... Thing. 3. You can clearly see the shape of the rayskin panels. They did nothing to hide or blend them. 4. Those fittings. IF you could find this sword for between $150 and $200 including shipping, I'd say you aren't doing so bad. But $260 just seems like far too much for a generic, folded sword that seems poorly put together. I know nothing about this seller, but here's pretty much the same thing for $100 less and looks just slightly better put together. Slightly... www.ebay.com/itm/new-Folded-steel-Clay-tempered-samurai-sword-full-tang-Katana-sharp-can-cut-tree-/301679163920?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item463d7aba10Not that I recommend that one. Just that the same thing can be had for a lot less money.
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Post by renancvlr on Jul 28, 2015 2:31:18 GMT
Well, ebay is a hit or miss, I want to replace my old St-Nihonto U$190,00 beater and thinking on getting a sanmai or kobuse in a U$300,00 price range but look to all this crap, im gonna stick to maru to the death. maybe I get a good T-10.
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Post by aussie-rabbit on Jul 28, 2015 6:16:18 GMT
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Post by renancvlr on Jul 28, 2015 11:41:45 GMT
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Post by aussie-rabbit on Jul 28, 2015 14:42:34 GMT
Don't know that seller, not fond of the reverse polish but that is personal taste, habaki fit is a bit sloppy, --- pause
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