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Post by frankthebunny on Dec 3, 2014 1:15:30 GMT
I think this is a good point. Chances are already taken every time we buy an affordable production sword so I'm thinking this risk increases and compounds when we buy folded steel and laminated construction. On top of this increased risk, we also have those that are deceiving us when they can. If I was using one of these swords to cut with, I'd probably keep the risk down as much as possible but if I were just collecting to admire, it really wouldn't matter as much. Anyone willing to pitch in and buy a supposed sanmai laminated sword so it can be tested and dissected? Depending on how many people we can get to go in, it might not be very much individually. I was thinking of something like this
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Mikeeman
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Post by Mikeeman on Dec 3, 2014 1:28:17 GMT
At that price, I'd just buy it myself. Then you guys wouldn't have to. Tell ya what, Frank. If you can get that guy, there, to make that exact same blade just DH, I'll buy it outright to chop up. I need a good ko-kat for my brother, anyway.
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Post by aussie-rabbit on Dec 3, 2014 1:38:47 GMT
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Post by frankthebunny on Dec 3, 2014 1:47:57 GMT
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Post by aussie-rabbit on Dec 3, 2014 2:01:46 GMT
Much harder to see the lamination line with that one, (because it's missing) plus from the close up the sharpening is not very good. Their concept of kobuse is backwards ! The core steel ...... this is just silly !
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Post by Anankai on Dec 3, 2014 2:54:01 GMT
Well with Kobuse blade construction there isn't supposed to be a lamination line, except when it's Gyaku-Kobuse, which is a construction style sold by some ebay vendors. But I agree that their explanation of the Kobuse construction is wrong. The harder steel should be the outside layer with the cutting edge, and the core should be the softer steel for increased flexibility. Maybe they wrote it wrong and it's the T10 steel that is folded and the 1060 steel that is the core steel...
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Mikeeman
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Post by Mikeeman on Dec 3, 2014 4:01:30 GMT
It looked pretty laminated to me. On one side, at least.
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Post by Jussi Ekholm on Dec 3, 2014 5:10:00 GMT
As Usagiya has been mentioned few times in this thread, it'll further explain my thoughts. Their Kokaji has been making swords before I was even born, he is a professional swordsmith with humongous knowledge. Therefore he sees and knows lots of things I do not see & know. What I'm trying to say is that it is easy to see something as it's explained and you can understand the explanation. When you have to look all by yourself you might miss very important points, if you do not yet have the knowledge. As there is a lot of talk about the lamination lines, here is a pic of a Ronin Elite I used to own for a bit. I wanted to see the quality of their Elite line personally, so I bought one from S&D sales. That line in the picture is probably around 3-4cm in length. If I remember correct the blade had 2 lines of this size and one twice as big. As the blade was 71 cm in length, so there was 142 cm of surface area from which approx. 16 cm showed these lines. Here are both sides of the kissaki for comparison. Only one of the lines was in my opinion big enough to be seen immidiately even in poor lighting, these 2 smaller ones kinda blend in quite nicely if I recall correctly... I believe that Zhejiang Zhengs (Ronin, Kawashima etc.) and many other makers make laminated blades. They have their own marketability as people seem to want them. I've been writing a bit for school work about human purchasing behavior, and I've understood that marketing psychology actually makes a lot of sense. So in marketing psychology terms I could maybe say that some of the people who purchase laminated blades want to show off / stand out. They want to be recognized by other collectors. Now this may sound off putting but it really isn't a bad thing. As my marketing psychology books are in Finnish, that above came a bit blunt. So I'll follow up with an example. Colletors enjoy showing their collection to other collectors. That's why forums like this have appreciation threads like Members Collections, New acquisitons threads, showing your own projects etc. It's fun to see and hear what other collectors think about certain stuff. I was very excited to bring few of my nihonto to show them for senior collector, it was great to hear his thoughts about them and discuss about them. Also the showing off / standing out varies much. Sometimes you can appear to be showing off even though you do not intend to. As a car analogy, if you own a Ferrari you will stand out. If you are in a Ferrari forum, you'll need special model like Enzo, F40 etc. to stand out. Similarily you could say in this forum which is mostly focused on budget production stuff owning a nihonto or high end production stuff can be seen as standing out. Where as in nihonto forum you will need something special to stand out. As for folk who drive a Ferrari, some actually just love driving one and they wouldn't like to stand out from the crowd. Some purchase the Ferrari in order to stand out from the crowd. Why did I buy the Ronin Elite? Well it's another piece of psychology, curiosity. That is what I think might get many to try new swords unknown for them. I know it makes me seek new manufacturers and models I have not yet experienced. It's funny that curiosity and trying new stuff sometimes also leads to showing off / standing out. I know I've often thought that damn X got a nice sword from that forge...
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Mikeeman
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Post by Mikeeman on Dec 3, 2014 5:16:40 GMT
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Post by Anankai on Dec 3, 2014 7:19:10 GMT
They advertise as honsanmai but the image of blade cross-section show a simple sanmai construction... Sanmai uses 2 kind of steel; hard core steel and softer outer steel. Honsanmai uses 3 kind of steel; hardest steel for blade edge, medium hardness steel for sides and softest steel for spine. For those prices, we can only assume the line we can see is a real lamination line. To be sure if it's real sanmai, tests must be performed on those swords. That's the only way to know if they really are of sanmai construction. Again for those kind of prices, even if it's really sanmai blades, I would be doubtful of the quality of the lamination...
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Post by VicoSprite on Dec 3, 2014 7:19:54 GMT
I have to say, some of those actually appear laminated.
Josh, I will throw in $50 for this experiment. Cheers buddy, Cody
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Mikeeman
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Post by Mikeeman on Dec 3, 2014 15:03:55 GMT
You can, if you want, but I was just gonna snag one. Unless you wanted to donate time. It'll need a new tsuka after I cut it down to see what's inside.
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Post by frankthebunny on Dec 3, 2014 18:48:03 GMT
I was thinking to get the sword from a seller that we've heard of or that some of us have purchased from in the past or will again in the future. I'd suggest Huawei if they offered such a thing for a decent price. I'd say Katana1980, Wangkatana, swordsmith668, sinosword, stnihonto, etc.
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Post by johnwalter on Dec 3, 2014 19:24:08 GMT
Josh,you may want to hold off on this for abit.May not be needed,Ill let you know.
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Mikeeman
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Post by Mikeeman on Dec 3, 2014 20:45:27 GMT
I just wanted an excuse to get a new sword since Jacky from Huawei never got back to me about my custom project.
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Post by VicoSprite on Dec 3, 2014 20:48:44 GMT
I would love to know what goes on in John Walters head sometimes. Cheers, Cody
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Post by frankthebunny on Dec 4, 2014 21:41:32 GMT
I just borrowed some pics of hon-sanmai materials from sword maker Michaël Sabatier that he posted on his facebook pageVery nice, just like they do it on ebay Attachments:
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Post by Maat22 on Dec 4, 2014 21:48:35 GMT
I'm not holding my breath about mine either. Maybe he is busy or not working now? Or maybe he just isn't interested.
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Post by Krelian on Dec 4, 2014 21:56:29 GMT
[/attachment][/quote] I was just going to post that same picture...
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Post by aussie-rabbit on Dec 4, 2014 23:50:24 GMT
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