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Post by Robert in California on Sept 4, 2014 1:04:26 GMT
Hi A: nddave makes good points and gives good advice. A $200usa Longquan China katana will be a decent, but a budget sword with budget "mirror" polishing (takes many hours to do a hazuya/jizuya polish...Chinese swordsmiths will do that, but can add a couple hundred to the final price). The furniture is standard. A lot of bang for the buck, but a $200 budget katana is not a $400 katana (which is not a Budo, which is not a genuine Japanese nihonto...you can throw a LOT of money at this hobby). This is btw, a custom blade Jacky of Huawei is making for me. Notice the suguha/straight hamon is not one of his standard models. I think he agreed to make this blade for me as it was a challenge and interested him. viewtopic.php?f=9&t=22924Huawei blades tend to have the hardened edge (hamon/yakiba) hardened to about 57 HRC (per Jacky). Huawei blades of T10 or 1085/T10 folded (or folded T10 steel) are DH water quenched to about 61 or 62. Then tempered to a softer but tougher 57. Others temper to harder (or softer) levels. Wang-katana2011 mono-1095 I have was 61 (per W-K2011) on one but another W-K2011 said was 59. Problem with too hard is more break/chip-able. Problem with too soft is they dull. I have two antique Japanese blades, a koto waki and a shinshinto katana. The koto blade is pretty soft (even in the hamon) by today's standards...in the old days of Japan, fighters wore armor so swords too hard, broke...a bad thing in the middle of a big battle. Later, in times of "peace", swords were made harder (stayed sharp better/longer) as swords were hitting 'soft' (clothes) rather than 'hard' (armor). In our hearts, we want a blade so hard it never dulls and can chop trees and metal without scratch or dullness. But actually, Japanese swords (Japan or China) are pretty fragile...scratch easy, rust easy, bend...well I have bent nihonto doing a bad cut of thin bamboo I am ashamed to say. RinC
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Post by Robert in California on Sept 4, 2014 1:09:28 GMT
p.s. In general, the more money, the better the sword...maybe not the blade material or the heat treatement/temper...a $200usa budget blade can become a $400+ sword with better polishing, better furniture and better fitting.
But still, pay more and get mroe.
That said, in the $300usa to $400 range, Huawei offers good value and is considered one of the better sword makers.
(as is Hanwei...l love the Hanwei Lion Dog...other than the tsuka/handle...ugh.)
You come across a Hanwei 25th Anniversary Shinto (HWS-1s steel)..at a good price...jump on it!
RinC
p.p.s. As I recall, Katana1980 told me the hamon steel of his mono T10 was about 61 (hardness).
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Post by atrixnet on Sept 5, 2014 2:59:14 GMT
My teacher told me to buy a nihonto from japan and told me exactly where to go to get it. Unfortunately I can't afford a $7K sword. Sensei Fields is not running a dojo anymore, but offered to teach me and give me a bokken. Then he said to purchase an Iato which I guess I have!
Sadly he is very occupied with other matters and my instruction is not his priority. There hasn't been sufficient interaction to do much for me. That is why I will ultimately seek out a good dojo that he also told me he would help me select.
As for the sharp sword that I'm not using at a dojo--I'm getting the shinken for the day I'm "ready" to start working with one. I will purchase the sword my teacher told me to buy when the time comes that I can buy it.
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Post by atrixnet on Sept 5, 2014 3:01:15 GMT
I will, but first please tell me how does it compare -- in your opinion -- to this other Huawei: goo.gl/AqAB4M
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Post by Robert in California on Sept 5, 2014 6:52:35 GMT
Hi A: Hanwei 25th Ann. Shinto vs. that est. $312 Huawei with the awesome sanbon sugi (?) type hamon (I like it, I LIKE it!). Well, the 25th Ann. Shinto is shorter, a 27" blade and is of Hanwei's best steel...hws1-s. And the Hanwei is about $850 or so when you can find one used. As it is no longer made. Hanwei does have a Shinto model, but I think it is T10 steel (folks who know Hanwei stuff well, please correct me).
Huawei is a step above a K1980 or a Wang-katana2011 $200 category sword. But the cheapest Huawei (that I regard as good...as I don't go for through-hardened Japanese swords...) is Huawei's $219 folded 1085/T10 katana. It is Huawei's good budget DH katana. That is what Huawei is sending me but with a suguha/straight hamon...full samegawa/raw rayskin tsuka wrap ($25 extra option), one mekugi (instead of the standard two mekugi's...those bamboo pins that hold the handle/tsuka onto the blade), black tuskaito/handle wrap, iron tsuba/fuchi/kashira (instead of the budget aluminum sword furniture), and real buffalo horn saya/scabbard furniture (kojiri/saya tip + kurikata/knob with hold the saya cord/sageo goes thru + koguichi/mouth-opening of the saya/scabbard you stick the sword into).
So instead of paying $219usa shipped, I ended up paying almost $300usa.
Face it, even for $219 the Huawei 'budget' katana has a little better fit and finish than a $170 budget sword. More money gets you more in this hobby. It can be a real money trap.
Ultimately, unless a person becomes a big bucks collector, one is buying a sword for use...dojo, cutting, or even home defense. So no need for a historical piece or a fancy piece one fears to use least it gets a scratch.
My suggestion would be to have a budget blade for practical use and a nicer blade for eye candy and joy in ownership.
If I should ever show up at a cutting party, it will be with my under $200 Wang-katana2011 1095 katana or my Katana1980 T10.
FYI, I have been hazuya/jizuya polishing my K1980 T10 and polished my 1095 W-K2011 also. The T10 steel feels harder than the 1095 for these two swords of mine. T10 has that reputation for being able to handle a bit more hardness. But my 1095 blades are tough steel. The 1095 W-K2011 blade had some wire edges on tang/nakago and blade edge. Using a file on the tang wire edges...it was a lot of work to remove the wire edges...my file would just slide over the 1095 steel of that blade...was hard and tough.
The K1980 T10 finger stones polish is going slower than when I polished my 1095 blade. Steel is harder tempered.
You like that Huawei? You are not the only one. But how are your finances?
Maybe you could send the K1980 back for a refund (shipping back to China will cost about $60usa) and apply the refund money towards a Huawei.
My Huawei "budget" $199 wakizashi blade polish is better than my K1980 or W-K2011 swords (got 2 from each place). Fit and finish a bit better too. But cost is more.
Huawei does do things right and I am confident you would be happy with that (or other DH Huawei). Apply the K1980 refund money to a Huawe?
Or send the K1980 back for exchange of a new K1980 that is all sharp and no problems (Tony would personally q.c. the new sword before sending it out. Still...there is the $60 cost to return for you. Tony would have similar cost to ship the replacement sword.
But still, a $300 Huawei will be nicer than a $170 K1980...even if no flaws.
If the sharpening guy charges $50 or so (assuming his work is good), for $60 your could have a replacement sword? One that IS all sharp, nothing loose...hand checked by Tony himself.
Me? I'd go for a neplacement sword that is SHARP (no 'iaito' edges) or return for refund and get that Huawei.
Hanwei are good...but their prices got raised a while back, so they are more pricey now. Didn't used to me. IMO, these days, Huawei is better value.
A Budo would likely make you even happier...but when available, I think they go for $600--$700usa. Talk to John Walter about a Budo. His favorite, I believe. He is a hard core cutter.
Well, got to call it a day. Late. Think about your options. Don't just stay with a sword you do not like. Fix it. Exchange it. Refund it. Something.
Robert in California (RinC)
Too bad you don't live in Calif...you could come and see and hold my stuff. Hard to buy stuff by mail.
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Post by Robert in California on Sept 5, 2014 6:56:38 GMT
p.s. You get a katana...be sure to ask for full rayskin/samegawa wrap of raw (natural/white) ray skin...full wrap, not panels. And of raw ray skin, not the black tanned (softer) ray skin. Full wrap gives more strength and durability to the tsuka/handle.
$25usa option from K1980, W-K2011 amd Huawei.
RinC
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Post by atrixnet on Sept 5, 2014 7:08:15 GMT
Well these huawei are both DH, and my finger's on the trigger and ready to buy. I talked to ricky and told him what I wanted and asked him what he recommended. He pointed me to the not-folded sword. I just can't decide if I want to go folded or not. I would usually automatically say no, that just introduces possible points of failure, given that folding isn't needed and if overdone will drive carbon OUT of the steel...but dang if that blade isn't seductive! MMMMM wow!
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Post by Robert in California on Sept 5, 2014 7:26:37 GMT
Hi A: Well I personally like folded over mono. Why? Because it is prettier and more traditional. Mono is more boring. But the potential problem with with folded T10 is...that T10 is higher carbon than 1095. And so can be tempered harder. But does the folding cause some of the desirable properties of the T10 steel to be lost or reduced? Could the carbon content/hardness potential be less if folded?
But folded steel IS prettier and historically more accurate (I am a tradtionalist and thus I like one mekugi/pin handles/tsukas...not the default two mekugi's).
But I like the hamon of that mono T10 better than the hamon of the folded. (I have admired that sword blade before and so have others).
But some advice, before you order:
1. Ask Jacky of Huawei if the sword in the photo is the sword you would be buying. I learned the hard way that often, they take pics of a sword but do not change the pics (new pics are a pain in the butt to do). If Huawei says the sword you would get is NOT the sword pictured, then be SURE to ask for pics of the blade you would be buying.
Those pics are of a model/series. The furniture would not change, but the blades are all individuals. Get pics and only buy if you like the blade pics. I love the hamon on that mono T10 but might be unhappy if the hamon/temper line on the blade I was sent, was not as nice.
Secondly, spend the extra $25usa for a full rayskin/samegawa tsuka/handle wrap. AND get the natural/raw rayskin. Not the softer, less hard tanned/colored rayskin. Raw rayskin is like raw hide in being soft and flexible when wet. But hard and strong when dry.
The reason I am buying the Huawei budget+ katana is that I bought a Huawei wakizashi and I am very pleased with it. Everything is of higher level than my budget swords.
RinC
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Post by Robert in California on Sept 5, 2014 7:29:24 GMT
Hi A: Sent PM. RinC
p.s. My Huawei waki easily slices paper...very sharp!
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Post by atrixnet on Sept 5, 2014 8:23:31 GMT
Excellent advice regarding the pictures. I'll really pay attention to that. You seem to have a very discriminating eye for hamon. I wonder what makes it so... So I'm like a kid in a candy store I swear. OK how about this sword then... what makes it worth approx 70 dollars more? My max is $500 right now. That's the price point, so I'd like to get the best bang for my buck. Anyhow, this: goo.gl/BDZcRaupdate: decided against the above. I think I've made my selection.
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Post by atrixnet on Sept 5, 2014 8:40:10 GMT
When I reply it just sits in the outbox. I don't know why it doesn't just send you the message. Maybe it gives people 30 minutes or something to go back and delete something they wrote that they regret. I dunno. Just sayin I'm sorry if you don't see the 2 responses I sent.
p.s. very excited to be a fellow Huawei owner soon
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Post by johnwalter on Sept 5, 2014 10:20:38 GMT
Pm's sit in your outbox until the other person opens it.
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Post by atrixnet on Sept 5, 2014 10:22:13 GMT
I've tentatively settled on this one: imgur.com/a/IMhSO(I'm using an imgur-hosted image album because the online listing will be gone someday and this thread would be worthless). It's a Huawei and it's a surprisingly low price considering the features of the sword, it's blade, and fittings. It's selling at a little over $300. I was looking for something in the $500 dollar range but Huawei doesn't really sell but a few and they are spec'd in a way that they look too easily damaged...more like works of art. For the sword I've got my eye on I've requested some customizations, including the raw genuine ray skin full wrap samegawa and a blood red ito wrap to match the saya. I might change my mind and go with cream color ito wrap and sageo. The specs:Nagasa /blade length- 71cm Motohaba- 3.2cm Motokasane - 0.78cm Sakihaba - 2.4cm Sakikasane - 0.5cm Nakago Length -27.5cm Sori/curvature - tori sori 1.8cm Chu kissaki -4.5cm Tsuka Length - 26.5cm Mekugi-ana- 2[/list:u]
The features:
Fully functional live blade Shinken Katana "real sword" Hand Forged Clay tempered T10 Steel Water Quenched Differentially Hardened Monosteel, no folding High level Hand polished for the full length of the blade Good edge hardness and resilient blade Tameshigiri Polish Visible Natural Prominent Hamon Shinogi Zukuri with Geometric Yokote Full tang Very tightly wrapped alternate & HISHI-GAMI TSUKAMAKI Bamboo two Mekugi Peg Authentic black same tsuka Dark red Lacquered saya Buffalo horn kojiri, koiguchi and kurikata Can be disassembled for maintanence Comes with cotton sword bag[/list:u]
Seller Statement:
If you want a real sword for Cutting practices, Tameshigiri (for cutting medium/soft targets, i.e. tatami, bamboo, flesh...) and Advanced Iaidō purposes, this is a good choice.[/list:u]
...So Whachathink?
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Post by Robert in California on Sept 5, 2014 14:46:39 GMT
Hi A: A few comments: 1. Here are the two katanas I bought from K1980. Tony made the video for me. Notice how easily the guy uses my two swords to slice flimsy paper. I got the two swords and it took me a lot of practice before I could do even close. Seems like all else in life, there is skill and technique involved in paper slicing. ... e=youtu.be2. If I had the hobby funds to do so, the Huawei I would get is: www.ebay.com/itm/Own-steelmaking ... 3f2520ba63 Not because it is likely any better a cutter or other functional reason. But because it is very pretty in my eyes and being tamahaganae, is more tradtional that mono steel swords. But a time is money...tamahaganae like this involves a lot of manhours and so that costs. Love the choji hamon, what? 3. Top line Huawei choji hamon mono T10: www.ebay.com/itm/HIGH-QUALITY-SH ... 416cbf703c This Huawei is probably as good as Huawei gets in a mono T10. But its regular price is $400. A chunk of that higher price is for the manhours of the hazuya (Japanese finger stones) blade polish. There is a lot of work involved in such a polish. Blade steel and temper can be the same as the less expensive Huawei models, but one pays extra for better polish. Sometimes one gets better blade geometry with a better polish as well. I like this blade....but samegawa/ray skin looks to be panels, not full wrap. So spend the extra $25 for full wrap now. You won't be sorry. It looks to be 2 mekugi/tsuka(handle) pin. Stronger, but Japanese swords have gone centuries with one mekugi and were just fine. Two mekugi pins imo allow less good nakago/tang to tsuka/handle fit. Chinese production swords try to be standardized so the tsukas and sayas can be mass produced. One size fits all kind of thing...allows buyers to get a decent sword for less. For instance, one can pay a huge price for custom made shoes. But if one can find a shoe in the right size, one can buy a mass produced but quality shoe a lot lower. So you will notice that Huawei swords tend to be pretty close in length and sori (blade curve) for each model, so the mass produced furniture fits with minimal hand fitting. Bot the sanbon sugi mono T10 and that choji mono T10 are nice swords. Hard to decide which...comes down to personal taste. Still, though others here will disagree, go for the full rayskin wrap, no matter what you do. Panels just give one the mekugi and the (thin) tuska wood for strength. Adding full wrap rayskin gives additional anti-handle break resistance/durability. And best to have it done before buying as Huawei does a really nice job on the tsukaito (handle ribbon braid/ito)...better than other makes. Better than you or I can do. A case of get what you want done before the buy. RinC
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Post by Robert in California on Sept 5, 2014 14:55:15 GMT
www.ebay.com/itm/HIGH-QUALITY-SH ... 416cbf703c p.s. Jacky sent me pics of his latest batch of these choji mono T10 blades (5 or 6 of them). All nice, but all a little different. All individuals. Ask for pics of the blade you would be receiving. Probably will not be the same on as in the pics on the Huawei web site. Many online vendors do the same. One set of pics to show the model/furniture and sword. Blades will vary. I like wide hamons (I have two narrow hamon swords, one medium width hamon sword and wanted another wide hamon sword...so asked for that from Jacky of Huawei...he did not have such in stock...which lead to him making me a custom blade...which takes longer naturally than something off the shelf). RinC
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Post by Robert in California on Sept 5, 2014 15:13:03 GMT
www.ebay.com/itm/HIGH-QUALITY-SH ... 416cbf703c So the sanbon sugi (folks...please correct me if I called it sanbon sugi if there is a more accurate hamon description) blade? Yeah, as much as I like the choji hamon, that "3 peak" type hamon draws the eye, doesn't it? I too like it and would have a hard time deciding...choji more complex...sanbon sugi sooths the soul. RinC Hey! Want to see some good cutting technique? Search Youtube for "John Walter" and "sword"....guy is better now that I will ever be. Black belt/sensei grade.
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Post by atrixnet on Sept 5, 2014 15:16:52 GMT
Hey no fair! I ask him two questions and an offer to buy and I get nothing... and you get a batch of photos?!
So that's the sword then eh? 70 dollars more expensive than the one I was going to get. Didn't even see this one. I can't see what the difference is between them. Do you know?
Regarding hamon, I really love the look of a choji hamon personally, and I also saw one called mt fuji that is so beautiful you swear it has to be fake.
So what's the deal? What does it take to get this guy to take my money?
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Post by Robert in California on Sept 5, 2014 15:23:02 GMT
Hi A: You call me in about 15? Going for coffee right now. re. Jacky of Huawei 1. His wife had a baby very recently so he is more than busy. 2. China is one day ahead...friday here in USA is Saturday in China. So he is off today most likely..doing father stuff. 3. Jacky is not chatty. My experience with him is that he does not like a lot of emails and his replies are short. RinC
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Post by atrixnet on Sept 5, 2014 15:24:50 GMT
They both say high level hand polish... but the more expensive one has an iron tsuba, fuchi, and kashira. 70 dollars more just for iron fittings? Surely there's something else.
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Post by atrixnet on Sept 5, 2014 15:41:41 GMT
Yes will do enjoy congrats dammit I'm sorry I annoyed him with my MONEY! LOL :lol: I mean c'mon I say I want to pay for something, you say hey gimme photos. Look who gets lucky. Where have I gone wrong. DISCLAIMER: Don't pay attention to anything offensive that I say! I'm a highly sleep deprived, time-drunk, highly caffeinated man. I haven't slept in over 30 hours. Pulling an day and a half after the all nighter that happened after the day before of work. I'm a computer engineer. Sometimes this is necessary. I am still at least 12 hours away from my pillow. Just ignore me while I twitch in the corner!
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