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Post by atrixnet on Sept 3, 2014 17:08:52 GMT
I thought it was the opposite with the XL? Check out the thickness difference between the Classic and the XL: Classic => kultofathena.com/product.asp?ite ... na+Classic XL => kultofathena.com/product.asp?ite ... +XL+Katana The key is probably the niku meat. I have read that the XL has more niku and is therefore defined by a "pear" shaped profile from the shinogi downward, lending in part to its greater weight and its remarkable similarity to the specs of the Hanwei Tori XL Katana - SH6007XFF which was made exclusively for competitive cutting. The specs for that sword are here => kultofathena.com/product.asp?ite ... +XL+Katana Also, I do understand what you mean about nihonto, which has been a really fun topic to study. I'm only looking for the very best shinken I can buy for $400 and under.
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Post by atrixnet on Sept 3, 2014 17:19:35 GMT
I should have stated what I wanted out of that "very best shinken". I want it to be a shinken (cutting-sharp by definition). I want to be able to slice effortlessly through a watermelon. I also want it to be tough enough not to chip. There's a balance to be struck between sharp and tough and I don't know enough about blade thickness profiles to define exactly where I fall on that continuum. I do know enough that I don't want a bo-hi, which should tell you I'm not concerned with speed or laser point accuracy. I want something that can cut very well without chipping and do so for a good number of years. I'm not looking for an heirloom. When I want one of those, I'll get a decorative+functional katana, all gilded and pretty. Right now, my goals are as stated above.
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Post by johnwalter on Sept 3, 2014 17:42:15 GMT
No XL Ive handled has niku,just a secondary beveled edge,no appleseed geometry.
True shinken?
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Post by johnwalter on Sept 3, 2014 17:45:57 GMT
You can easily cut a watermelon with an iaito also. Xl is a good sword,but,its made for competition tameshigiri.They arent your average cutters.
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Post by atrixnet on Sept 3, 2014 19:52:32 GMT
I know this post is a little long, but stick with me, I am going somewhere with all of this: Well, my "sword" is basically an iato. I think I mentioned (forgive me if I did not) that my sword is only sharp from boshi to kissaki. From the yokote forward, basically. This part of the sword is sharp enough to pass the "paper test". As for the rest, again it is basically an iato. You can put your finger on the blade, apply pressure while running it back and forth on the ha. Nothing. Not sharp at all. So I took the sword into my backyard on day 3 of owning it. I set up some water ozarka drinking bottles (the handheld size with very thin plastic). I placed them on top of some large cardboard boxes to absorb a bad cut if I was to veer downward and sideways too much. I gripped my katana and sliced the bottles using a motion mirroring what I'd learned from demonstrations and tutorials on youtube. The result was undesirable. Instead of slicing through the bottles, it was more like a hack. I did use force in my swings. The bottles were not cut clean through, but ripped open for most of the circumference dead-center of the plastic bottle. There was about a quarter inch of plastic where the bottom of the bottle remained connected to the top. So basically this katana, errr, iato just bashed the bottles open by virtue of the fact that they had to absorb the energy of my swinging motion and that was that. So in response that you can cut a watermelon in half effortlessly with an iato, I humbly submit as a newbie that such a statement may be a slight exaggeration to prove a point. If I take my iato-thingy and hit a watermelon, it would more likely result in a torn small-explosion than be sliced in parts. As for my use of the word "shinken". I mean it strictly in the way it's defined. Shinken = "sharp" katana. Nihonto = well I think we all know what this means, and would love to own one or several. To clarify what I want, maybe a visual demonstration is better than words. I want my sword to be able to do this kind of thing: THANKS!!! edit: picture of water bottle type imgur.com/UiaWd6wedit 2: for comparison I have a machete and a sharpened stainless "wilderness survival" saw that both slice through these bottles and do it so cleanly that the blade is through the plastic before the water has the chance to fall out. I sharpened them using the boy scout method -- the only one I know by rote.
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Post by Robert in California on Sept 3, 2014 21:16:26 GMT
Hi Atrixnet, Which Ebay-Katana1980 sword model did you buy? I have a couple Katana1980 katanas. Both in the $200 plus minus range. One a sanmai folded. One a mono T10. Both are DH/clay tempered. But both are budget swords...good value for $200usa but not the level of fit and finish that a say, $400usa Huawei would be. My Katana1980 katanas had samegawa panels (full rayskin wrap from Katana1980 for just $25usa more...which I did) and the standard budget "shiny all over" mirror polish that makes it harder to see the hamon. Katana1980 blades should be paper-test passing sharp from about 1.5 inches ahead of the habaki to the tip of the kissaki. We do not cut with the blade next to the habaki and having the first 1 1/2 inches of blade dull helps reduce cuts to the koguichi/saya mouth. I assume you dealt with Tony. I know him and found him to be honest and decent. His swordsmith/q.c. guy may not be the best though as I got one katana ($250usa folded 1060/1095 sanmai) and the habaki was loose and half the kissaki was not sharp. He was very good about return and exchange and made good on it without any problem. I have no hesitations in recommending him. Robert in California p.s. I used japanese finger stones to bring out the hamon. Improved the looks. Made the hamon easier to photograph too. I see your sword has rayskin panels, not full wrap.
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Post by Robert in California on Sept 3, 2014 21:28:35 GMT
"Well, my "sword" is basically an iato. I think I mentioned (forgive me if I did not) that my sword is only sharp from boshi to kissaki. From the yokote forward, basically. This part of the sword is sharp enough to pass the "paper test". As for the rest, again it is basically an iato. You can put your finger on the blade, apply pressure while running it back and forth on the ha. Nothing. Not sharp at all."
The blade should be sharp from about 1.5" above the habaki to the tip of the kissaki. Yours is not? Seriously, talk to Tony about that...for a refund, or exchange or a fix that satisfies you. Do it now. Let us know his response if you like.
RinC
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Post by Robert in California on Sept 3, 2014 21:34:25 GMT
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Post by atrixnet on Sept 3, 2014 21:56:00 GMT
Please be forewarned that the following text contains mildly grumpy language. It is not intended to offend. If it does, please excuse me as I mean absolutely no disrespect to anyone whatsoever.
To RinC I offer this answer:
I already complained to katana1980 that the sword wasn't sharp. I emphasized it as strongly as I could in civil terms. There was more than one correspondence on this. His response was that he would take my comments seriously and do better quality control in the future. That's like a snake saying I'm sorry I won't do it again while slithering away as you look at the fresh wound. I'm not comparing Tony to a snake at all, but I am comparing the katana1980 product I received to a snakebite. Granted Tony offered to take the sword back and repair a different flaw it had with the tsuka, but I told him I'd fix that at the dojo with my sensei. The lack of sharpness on my sword was of less concern to Tony. He told me he'd give me a discount in the future if I did business with him again or share the cost of having the blade sharpened if I wanted. Be that as it may, when I get a sword with one aspect of the sword not right (like a problem with the tsuka), how can I trust the rest of the aspects to be right?
I don't know this guy from Adam. I am probably not going to be able to go swinging this sword ever again because I can't count on anything about it. Somebody's word on the internet isn't going to mean much if the blade were to snap and go flying though the air at 40 mph--maybe back at me! I'll try another analogy to explain my logic there.
Let's say you are a tightrope walker and there is something small, but wrong with the rope. Would you trust your life to the rope? Or would you say to yourself: "So I got it a little cheap from a perfect stranger. It's only fraying in one spot, and I like the color. I'm sure the rest of the rope is fine. I'll walk it." Doubtful.
I'm going to try remedy the situation by having a master swordsmith analyze the sword, the steel, and the temper on it. If it passes muster then I'll have it sharpened professionally. That will happen early next week.
Either way I should have done my homework before getting seduced by the gorgeous images of the "functional real katana" on eBay. Anybody wanna tell me what functional means, because the last time I checked, it meant sharp and ready to cut. See my previous post on the matter for more info about the (lack of) sharpness on my blade.
In the end this is MY FAULT for researching all about the swords and not about where to buy them (and how much to pay).
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Post by atrixnet on Sept 3, 2014 22:03:10 GMT
How did you get in direct contact with the forge?
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Post by Robert in California on Sept 3, 2014 23:34:09 GMT
Hi A: As much as it may make you cringe, via Ebay. Hanwei and Huawei have good reputations. Jack/Jacky is the English name of the Huawei guy. His site is at: stores.ebay.com/huaweiswords?_tr ... 7675.l2563 Huawei has a sword I drool over (but is too much money for me): www.ebay.com/itm/271205841507?_t ... EBIDX%3AIT Very sorry about your unhappiness with Katana1980. What, in your reasonable opinion, should he have done to satisfy you? regards, RinC
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Post by Robert in California on Sept 3, 2014 23:43:04 GMT
btw, John Walter, on this forum is a master cutter and swordsman. Far beyond the average milk jug cutter. Talk to him about a good sword for Dojo and cutting use. (do not be surprised to find he likes the Budo...) Also, on this SBG site are reviews of swords. A good resource. (there is even a Budo review on this site, but one must search for it) RinC John Walter w/ Budo katana (cutting bamboo):
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Post by Robert in California on Sept 4, 2014 0:03:11 GMT
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Post by atrixnet on Sept 4, 2014 0:08:10 GMT
Thanks for the links! You never know who is legit and who is a snake oil outfit. I'm going to check these links out right now.
Satisfaction? Satisfaction would have been to send me a sharp sword in exchange for the dull one he sent me.
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Post by johnwalter on Sept 4, 2014 0:13:55 GMT
Not trying to irritate,just educate. My statement about cutting a watermelon with an iaito is fact.Done it,as well as cutting true tatami with an iaito,with good technique its not really that hard.It doesnt work with plastic because as you said,the plastic absorbs the impact until the point of blow out.Watemelons being cut with iaitos are all over the internet.Its a common parlor trick actually.Most often seen in demos where some idiot claiming to be a master has a student hold one on his belly while the mastrr cuts it,with an iaito
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Post by atrixnet on Sept 4, 2014 0:19:31 GMT
Are these $350-400 range Huawei swords better than the PPXL sword I had settled on? they certainly look beautiful. how is the quality? Are they sharp? can you remove the handle? what is the quality of the blade and the furniture? are they truly differentially hardened? Or is that just hype? Are they 2 x peg mekugi tsuba with real full tang? Good steel? sorry for all the questions, but I trust a forum member here more than that eBay seller who has everything to gain by being dishonest.
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Post by atrixnet on Sept 4, 2014 0:21:11 GMT
Not irritated :-)
Thanks for the education.
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Post by johnwalter on Sept 4, 2014 0:25:11 GMT
:-) BTW,thats Sensei Hans Fricke in the video you linked,I believe hes in his 70's in that video. Nakamura Ryu.
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Post by atrixnet on Sept 4, 2014 0:31:25 GMT
If the claims are true, this Huawei sword looks pretty sweet at first blush. I would have to investigate further before I knew for certain that it met my goals for sharpness and cutting m.ebay.com/itm/281358596192?cmd=VIDESC
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nddave
Member
Posts: 4,099
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Post by nddave on Sept 4, 2014 0:41:17 GMT
Overall I think you just have to put what you want into perspective of what you're willing to pay. Seems to me you got a perfectly fine $200 (minus the sharpening issue which is pure QC) sword yet expected something more along the lines of a $500 sword. If Tamashigiri and dojo use are you're primarily needs out of the sword I think you're better off going for a competition profiled sword like the XL. I'm suprised that your sensei hasn't been more involved in your selection of swords and has (judging by your knowledge and experience) even qualified you yet in the use of a sharp sword let alone an Iato. What school do you go to, if you don't mind my asking?
I understand you wanting to get your moneys worth out of this eBay katana but the lengths you're willing to go seem more than the sword is actually worth. What you seem to be willing to do would be like putting new rims, bodykit and hood scoop on a 93 Honda rather than just going out and buying a decent sports car. If anything cut your losses and put it up for sale here and take those funds to purchase something more to your liking like the PPXL.
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