Swiss M1875 Cavalry Officers Sabre.
Apr 7, 2014 18:10:29 GMT
Post by Uhlan on Apr 7, 2014 18:10:29 GMT
Researching my last acquisition, I noticed the profound lack of info about the Swiss Army sabres on the net.
Lots of info about the famous Swiss guns, but to find anything sabre related I had to go to www.deutsches-blankwaffenforum.
There is a Swiss Cavalry dedicated museum of sorts where I got the postcard images from and I thank them for that, but those were about all I could find there.
So, it took me some time to figure out what I had bought, which is for me a major part of the fun of collecting. In this kinda review I hope to shed some light into the Swiss void, nothing major, but a start for people here, so they are able to recognise some variants of the 19th century Swiss Cavalry sabres.
The postcard images I left full screen. They are very detailed and rendering them that large gives me at least, a wonderful, almost lifelike experience. Click ,, view image'' or the printer button on top of the page.
Here are the images I had to set me on my little quest. Made by the seller, this was all but enough to determine it was not a German Cavalry sabre, his take on it, but Swiss. Notice the little cross on the ricasso. If that is not there, it is not Swiss and this counts for all Swiss Army weapons, be it privately ordered or not. One of the reasons I say this is, that this kind of steel hilt and ornamentation you see everywhere at the middle of the 19th century. Austrians had it, some German states copied the Austrians, there are variants all over the place. Even the Brits had hilts like it. Since it is a given that most Continentals were made at Solingen, such a stamp says absolutely nothing about the origin. Sorting out this mess and trying to find out where this fashion started and listing all variants, would be a nice project though. So lets stick with the one thing certain: Swiss stuff is marked with the Swiss cross.
Okay, Swiss it is, but what is it and what model? Here came Blankwaffen.de to the rescue. There was not much, but just enough to determine model and make. Here is what I found:
Schweizer Kavallerie-Offizierssäbel M1867.
Schweizer Kavallerie-Offizierssäbel M1875.
Schweizer Kavallerie-Offizierssäbel M1894.
What have I got? Well, the first thing to note is that the M1867 has a ,,French'' style blade. Mine has a pipeback blade, so that one is out. Both the M1875 and the M1894 have pipeback blades though. The following might sound obvious after the fact, but having spend hours sifting through images and articles, I kinda go blind and in the little things, that is where it is at.
So, the following evening I took a closer look. Than it struck me that the second hanger on the M1894 had moved back to where it was on the M1867. The only model with the hanger in a lower place was the M1875. Maybe there are differences in the two pipeback blades, like thicker or a little wider, but this sort of detailed info, readily available for French and other makes, is seriously lacking. The hilts are the same. the scabbards are the same. The chapes look the same. The mouthpieces also, so, only the position of that hanger made my day.
Ofcourse, my sabre has no Ordonnandz marks, it is a private order. Having the Ordonnandz marks could make a lot of difference. Although, that said, for most of us they are just confusing gibberish and one needs a person who can read them. They are a mix of rackmarks, sabre number marks ( every sabre had its allocated place in the rack ), regimental marks, year of entry marks and on top of that, sometimes, tax marks.
So, I got me a Swiss M1875 Cavalry Officers sabre, private order. The best made sabre I own. Like a Swiss watch.
The best steel work I have seen in a long time and though it is made at Solingen, the specifications are Swiss to a tee and I bet they were made under Swiss supervision. It shows, big time. Its quality compaires only to Swiss guns and after that the Schweden Mauser. The German Mauser, in its best of times, could not compaire with that one. The whole is nickel plated too, but maybe this is something the Officer ordered.
The pipeback blade is stiff to around where the quill point starts. POB is 14 cm/ 5.51" and handling it assures me this is a Cavalry sabre. Though light at 736 grams, it favours the nose. Blade length is 82 cm/ 32.2" and it is 28 mm/ 1.1" wide. For those who want to know more about pipeback blades, I refer you to Dave Kelly and his sticky post on this forum: viewtopic.php?f=12&t=8980. Having one, I can see some of the pro's and cons of the type. Though this Swiss sabre feels very, very fast and should be a good slicer and fencer, the flex in the last section may impact negatively on penetration and the lack of mass will, I think, do the same for hacking. A Blucher it aint.
Now I try to find a way to exit this little essay and I think it proper, in the light of sharing the info I have, to end with some images of Mannschaft sabres and the Gala Degen. But, before those come on, I have some Images of Swiss sabres from before the all steel hilt models. Lets start with those.
Swiss Ordonnanz sabres 1842-52: berittene Mannschaft, Off. beritten, Off. unberitten.
Kavalleriesäbel Ordonnanz Offiziers M1852.
Kavalleriesäbel Ordonnanz Mannschaften M1867.
Kavalleriesäbel Ordonnanz Mannschaften M1875.
Säbel, eidgenössische Ordonnanz, 1896 - 1902.
Degen, schweizerisch, eidgenössische Ordonnanz 1899, Offizier, aus dem Besitz von Major Matthäus Ineichen (1864-1941), Kreiskommandant, Hitzkirch LU.
There is not much more to add at this point. I hope this post will generate a little interest in the doings of our Swiss brothers and their, in my view, underrated sabres and I look forward to your comments.
Cheers, Ulahn.
Lots of info about the famous Swiss guns, but to find anything sabre related I had to go to www.deutsches-blankwaffenforum.
There is a Swiss Cavalry dedicated museum of sorts where I got the postcard images from and I thank them for that, but those were about all I could find there.
So, it took me some time to figure out what I had bought, which is for me a major part of the fun of collecting. In this kinda review I hope to shed some light into the Swiss void, nothing major, but a start for people here, so they are able to recognise some variants of the 19th century Swiss Cavalry sabres.
The postcard images I left full screen. They are very detailed and rendering them that large gives me at least, a wonderful, almost lifelike experience. Click ,, view image'' or the printer button on top of the page.
Here are the images I had to set me on my little quest. Made by the seller, this was all but enough to determine it was not a German Cavalry sabre, his take on it, but Swiss. Notice the little cross on the ricasso. If that is not there, it is not Swiss and this counts for all Swiss Army weapons, be it privately ordered or not. One of the reasons I say this is, that this kind of steel hilt and ornamentation you see everywhere at the middle of the 19th century. Austrians had it, some German states copied the Austrians, there are variants all over the place. Even the Brits had hilts like it. Since it is a given that most Continentals were made at Solingen, such a stamp says absolutely nothing about the origin. Sorting out this mess and trying to find out where this fashion started and listing all variants, would be a nice project though. So lets stick with the one thing certain: Swiss stuff is marked with the Swiss cross.
Okay, Swiss it is, but what is it and what model? Here came Blankwaffen.de to the rescue. There was not much, but just enough to determine model and make. Here is what I found:
Schweizer Kavallerie-Offizierssäbel M1867.
Schweizer Kavallerie-Offizierssäbel M1875.
Schweizer Kavallerie-Offizierssäbel M1894.
What have I got? Well, the first thing to note is that the M1867 has a ,,French'' style blade. Mine has a pipeback blade, so that one is out. Both the M1875 and the M1894 have pipeback blades though. The following might sound obvious after the fact, but having spend hours sifting through images and articles, I kinda go blind and in the little things, that is where it is at.
So, the following evening I took a closer look. Than it struck me that the second hanger on the M1894 had moved back to where it was on the M1867. The only model with the hanger in a lower place was the M1875. Maybe there are differences in the two pipeback blades, like thicker or a little wider, but this sort of detailed info, readily available for French and other makes, is seriously lacking. The hilts are the same. the scabbards are the same. The chapes look the same. The mouthpieces also, so, only the position of that hanger made my day.
Ofcourse, my sabre has no Ordonnandz marks, it is a private order. Having the Ordonnandz marks could make a lot of difference. Although, that said, for most of us they are just confusing gibberish and one needs a person who can read them. They are a mix of rackmarks, sabre number marks ( every sabre had its allocated place in the rack ), regimental marks, year of entry marks and on top of that, sometimes, tax marks.
So, I got me a Swiss M1875 Cavalry Officers sabre, private order. The best made sabre I own. Like a Swiss watch.
The best steel work I have seen in a long time and though it is made at Solingen, the specifications are Swiss to a tee and I bet they were made under Swiss supervision. It shows, big time. Its quality compaires only to Swiss guns and after that the Schweden Mauser. The German Mauser, in its best of times, could not compaire with that one. The whole is nickel plated too, but maybe this is something the Officer ordered.
The pipeback blade is stiff to around where the quill point starts. POB is 14 cm/ 5.51" and handling it assures me this is a Cavalry sabre. Though light at 736 grams, it favours the nose. Blade length is 82 cm/ 32.2" and it is 28 mm/ 1.1" wide. For those who want to know more about pipeback blades, I refer you to Dave Kelly and his sticky post on this forum: viewtopic.php?f=12&t=8980. Having one, I can see some of the pro's and cons of the type. Though this Swiss sabre feels very, very fast and should be a good slicer and fencer, the flex in the last section may impact negatively on penetration and the lack of mass will, I think, do the same for hacking. A Blucher it aint.
Now I try to find a way to exit this little essay and I think it proper, in the light of sharing the info I have, to end with some images of Mannschaft sabres and the Gala Degen. But, before those come on, I have some Images of Swiss sabres from before the all steel hilt models. Lets start with those.
Swiss Ordonnanz sabres 1842-52: berittene Mannschaft, Off. beritten, Off. unberitten.
Kavalleriesäbel Ordonnanz Offiziers M1852.
Kavalleriesäbel Ordonnanz Mannschaften M1867.
Kavalleriesäbel Ordonnanz Mannschaften M1875.
Säbel, eidgenössische Ordonnanz, 1896 - 1902.
Degen, schweizerisch, eidgenössische Ordonnanz 1899, Offizier, aus dem Besitz von Major Matthäus Ineichen (1864-1941), Kreiskommandant, Hitzkirch LU.
There is not much more to add at this point. I hope this post will generate a little interest in the doings of our Swiss brothers and their, in my view, underrated sabres and I look forward to your comments.
Cheers, Ulahn.
