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Post by stickem on Aug 23, 2013 15:55:29 GMT
Howdy No worries. I already read it previously. While I am not discounting your opinion, mind you, I do have my own preferences and experiences, naturally. I find swinging something about a pound one-handed doesn't tire my arm much at all, so I can go all day on 'em like Adrian Peterson. My background is in swinging a 22oz framing hammer as a carpenter, as well a couple decades of swinging rattan kali sticks. So this is a familiar weight range for me in that it feels like an extension of my arm rather than an extra weight attached to the end of it It isn't that I can't tolerate something heavier; it is that I value speed and endurance more so than extra size and weight. For reference, there are times we've swung kali sticks for 8 hours straight doing a basic X pattern... and I find the grip wears out before anything else at such times... blisters and such. So for work, training, and fighting purposes, this is the weight I like to play with. Note: I haven't done much fighting with live blades, but the aluminum trainers we do use can be pretty painful in themselves (especially with thrusting motions). The difference is trainers don't typically cause lacerations I do, however, train with the live-blade mentality, even when working with sticks. Fair enough. I agree the carry weight difference isn't that big a deal, especially relative to swinging. Moreover, it is the weight when swinging the thing which actually matters most to me, though I can see sweet's point about having a light pack as well. Anyway, if you have ever swung your >2lb khukri for 10-15 min without pause, then you know what I mean :lol: Obviously the shape gives you more of the mass up front for chopping, but dunno that I need say... as much mass as an axe head up front. I'd use an axe if I did... Anyway, sweet was looking for a light kukri for camping. The Mini Gurkha is the lightest one I have found which still does the job of chopping wood well enough. This is why I recommended this specific CS model based on his description of what he's looking for, even though it is discontinued. Dunno that I'd call the CS a khukri-like object. When we speak of "sword-like objects," we typically mean stainless steel and other rigs not well-enough put together to withstand actual use as a sword. So a SLO is dangerous to use the way we would use an actual sword. I think for all the differences between CS and something made in Nepal, there is no question you can use CS's stuff like a khukuri. It is not hazardous to your health to go chopping at something with a CS, so I don't consider it a KLO. To each his own :roll: That said, obviously it isn't as traditional as say, this service weapon: WWIII'd have recommended this WWII model to sweet as a nice weapon/tool hybrid if it came in a little lighter version than you see above, say a lb. Anyway, for a camping application, the black blade on my Mini Gurkha doesn't rust, the rubber handle can get as wet as it wants to as well and it doesn't slip like a traditional wooden handled one might... and besides, I can fight off grizzly bears with it if needed :lol: Hence, IMO it is the right knife for the environment we were discussing. Your mileage may vary As the name of the thread states, it is a balancing act between historical and modern, not just for khukuri, but for all blades. I value both factors for different reasons. In a specific environment - say a campsite with kids like sweet described - I'd value the modern over tradition. That said, if we are talking spiritual or historical or craftsmanship reasons, then I agree with you in that obviously a HI or Tora wins out over a CS every time. No worries. Like Timo said, gives me a reason to have multiple kukri The lama I took refuge with is in Nepal, so believe me, I get the spiritual aspect as well as the idea of supporting the indigenous Nepalese
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Post by Timberwolf on Aug 23, 2013 17:14:10 GMT
Sorry, that post didn't belong here.
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Post by sweetcostarica on Aug 23, 2013 21:07:59 GMT
[/attachment]Some nice work on that handle for sure . It looks a bit like the traditional handles, but also has features of western handles.[/quote] Oh, that's what I'm talking about. NICE job (whoever did this handle) making the Cold Steel Gurkha Kukri better if not the perfect heavy duty Kukri that is a real all round user. When I say "all round" I mean chopper, splitter, curler, balanced self defense knife, good carry weight, good weight for weaker members of the group and so on. In many "experts" opinions they say the Cold Steel Gurkha Kukri has the best blade shape of the KLOs (Kukri Like Objects). But the rubber handles, although OK are not the best in the long term. I love this Kukri just as much as the traditional blades because it minics their efficiency.
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Post by stickem on Aug 24, 2013 12:11:33 GMT
Agreed. The main problem with the CS khukri I have is the grip is a bit rough on the hand. Whatever that Kraton... Krypton... Kraken stuff is they make the handles with, swinging it for an extended period of time gives some blisters. No, gloves are for sissies. Yes, customizing the grip this way is a brilliant solution to the problem.
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Post by Timberwolf on Aug 24, 2013 17:56:05 GMT
Hi, people. From here on out, I'm going to become very busy again, so I'll probably limit my responses to posting various bits of khukuri information. Maybe a "teaser quote" with a link to the rest of the article. If you want to learn a great deal more about the unique and historically significant Khukuri, the brave and ferocious Gurkhas, the Nepali/Nepalese, and Nepal in general, I strongly suggest that you start by reading ALL of the relevant material on the KHHI, HI, and Tora sites, links listed in my first post.Of course, that's mostly introductory information, but it's a great start. Be warned, you'll be subjected some obviously biased assertions. You'll have to sort through what is basically marketing/ad copy and selectively chosen information to get to the good stuff. Just remember that each of these sites are ultimately trying to get you to buy THEIR stuff, and you'll be fine. The great info far outweighs the hype and salesmanship.Now, to those of you with a good amount of experience in using these fine tools/weapons? I'd ask that in addition to posting your preferences, you'd provide whatever info/research/cool facts/links you've found. I'd like this to be an instructional thread as well as a place to post those preferences. Go learn something new and post it. I'm obviously developing some strong biases myself, but please try to refrain from turning this into a thread full of hype for your favorite company(ies). Keep it to the facts. If you don't, I can cite a lot of nasty stuff about any of these companies to counter any "cheerleaders", or as the kids say now, "fanbois". :twisted: I'm getting close to going beyond the facts and hyping what looks to be my "brand of choice by default" myself, so maybe it's a good thing I'm having to focus elsewhere. I'd hate to have to kick myself in the butt! :lol: OK. That should be all I need to say on that. I hope this thread keeps going, at least at a slow but consistent pace. In closing, I'll hit the high points again:
- Start with something in the roughly one to one and a half pound range. (400g-750g)
- Come up with your personal compromises between speed and mass, within your limitations.
- Don't delude yourself into thinking that you are or will become some great "knife fighter". That stupid idea and true combat applications are two completely different things. The winner of a real knife fight is usually the one who bleeds out and dies last from too many slices to repair. Go back and read the link I posted on that.
- As a weapon nowadays, all blades have two realistic COMBAT applications. One, as a rapid, sneaky, nasty, and treacherous weapon to be used against an unaware, poorly armed, or completely unarmed yet deserving adversary. Two, as a last ditch or best available option at the time. :twisted:
In my opinion, you don't need an overwhelming amount of absolute speed in these applications, we're talking khuks, after all. You definitely want some weight to it. Split the difference in speed and mass and you should be happy. But that's just me. It's your final choice.< OK, I have to edit this right here and apologize to the majority of you reading this. Yeah, I got me some feedback! Most of you don't need a khuk to be a weapon of any sort, although it COULD be. You really don't care about the speed vs. mass thing. You're smart enough to figure that out for your own purposes. As in having the ability to chop and split medium sized dry branches into firewood, while still being able to slice a porkloin for grilling with the same tool. So, I'm stressing this last purpose as the overwhelming reason that anyone would want a khuk of any sort. > - MOST of you simply want a nice, fun. and very unique toy to use as a multitool, to replace the three tools an outdoorsman usually has in different circumstances; a big field knife, a machete, and a hatchet. This is where the khuk has the most appeal, it does it all. Do your research and get whatever you like, there are a lot of choices for a general compromise tool, or for helping you limit your purchases down to 2 or 3 khuks. You'll probably wind up with at least 2 or 3 anyway, the "Khukuri Bug" will probably bite you, so consider that. :lol: Have fun and play nice. Now post some stuff. Seeya ... - TW (Edited once, to gain some more khukuri lovers. Do it like ya wanna.) (Edited again, some things didn't format correctly.)
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Post by stickem on Aug 29, 2013 6:15:33 GMT
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Post by sweetcostarica on Aug 29, 2013 8:38:58 GMT
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Post by Timberwolf on Aug 30, 2013 16:28:24 GMT
Good references, guys, and each has a specific focus. But that's the idea here, it's just like any other type of tool. I'm still thinking that you're eventually going to have at least 3 khuks to meet your various needs. I think I MUST add that Simon is heavily biased, and tries to drive people toward his product line by being very selective in what he portrays as the average khuk. Nothing wrong with that, he's trying to sell his stuff. But a LOT of people will disagree with him. Just remember what I posted about the marketing techniques of each of the 3 overwhelming favorites of the "khukuri khrowd"! Or ANY company! :lol: I'll also strongly disagree with him saying that a khuk shouldn't be used for bigger stuff. That's HIS OPINION, and nothing more. :roll: The Nepalese use an ax for the large stuff? Seriously? If I've got my firewood permit, and I'm headed for the National Forests next to me, I'm bringing my 24" chainsaw. Beat that! :twisted: But if I'm out in the woods for 2-10 days, and I brought a few khuks? I'll use a heavy one to chop up stuff up to 6"/15cm diameter. Any bigger and I won't bother for a campfire. :roll: I'll have to post an actual chopping comparison someday soon, but because of the longer cutting edge, I think a 2.75 lb khuk will do just as much as my 5 lb ax with the 3.5 lb head. There's obvious tradeoffs involved, but you get the point. That's where Stickem's and SCR's points come in, the khuk is lighter and smaller and does what I want without having to carry excess weight. And nobody can deny the "Cool and Unusual Factor"! Oh, as to the "family usage" aspect of all this? The simple solution is to buy a khuk for each family member, or at least a few shared ones. If you can afford to spend $200 on a family weekend in the woods, you can afford that. The prices at KHHI average $100 shipped. Smaller ones are much less, and they have dozens of light ones. I wouldn't want any 8-12 yr old kids or a really feminine chick swinging anything more than a medium weight, ~2 lb khuk. There are Sirupanas that are around 1 lb/450g or less and are 8" to 11". Bigger kids and chicks in good shape can swing a lot more. My babe has NO problems with my 842g/1.85 lb HI Sirupana, but she's what ya call the "athletic" type. If I'm taking them hunting or anywhere else without a benchrest, I'm not going to lend them my heavy rifles, I'm giving them something they can handle. Same principle applies to the khuks. OK, I'll let it go at that. Please carry on.
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Post by Nilfgaardian on Aug 30, 2013 16:56:10 GMT
I don't think chainsaws are that common among Nepalese villagers. People in the west probably earns as much money in a month as some Nepali's do in a decade or more. Of course there will be logging companies who use them.
I think you are right about maximum thickness one should use a kukri for. 6 inches shouldn't be a problem for any quality kukri. I find it hard to believe that Simon would advise against it when using something like a Tora GAK, which is 750 grams, 35cm blade and has a relatively thick spine.
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Post by Timberwolf on Aug 30, 2013 17:16:08 GMT
Hi, man! Oh, that was my point. I have tools that they do not. If I'm doing some chopping or cutting, I have things that fit the job that are better than a khuk as well. MUCH better. But OUR situations and purposes with a khuk are vastly different than the Nepali circumstances, which is why Simon's statements are based on a straw man argument. We do these things with a khuk more for fun, pleasure, and a hobby than for survival and out of daily necessity. BIG difference. And no offense, but I don't know why you find any of Simon's post to be "hard to believe". He shows pics of branches he chopped, and none are more than 2.5". He specifically comments on this. It's right there in photos and print, go read the article SCR linked. I can't say HE said something without having plain evidence of it. Right? :lol: Now, go tell me what ya think of my new khuks in my other thread, OK partner? I really want some feedback.
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Post by Nilfgaardian on Aug 30, 2013 17:39:41 GMT
I've read that article when Simon posted it and now when looking at it again I see that the wood Simon cut down was quite a bit thinner than I remembered. But I think he made a mistake when he said that those 2.5 inch trees are the limit for a kukri, since there is an image in the article of a Nepali cutting through what looks like a 4-6 inch log with his kukri. Simon didn't appear to have a problem with this.
It is reasonable to believe that one could use the kukri for just about any wood thickness, as long as you can't find a better tool for the job.
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Post by sweetcostarica on Aug 30, 2013 18:27:38 GMT
I believe that people should make up their own mind on what works best for them. To do this when it comes to the Kukri we in the international community need factual information, guidance on how the tool is used, and experience with the tool. I personally like this man, Simon Hengle because he knows his stuff and is well qualified to give an accurate opinion. He is bias that is true but so is every sells person in the world. They better be if they believe in their product. From what I understand Tora Blades is Simon's hobby. It is a small business but he makes his money elsewhere with " Tora", a Martial Arts Club specializing in Kick and Thai Boxing. He has taught Gurkhas in the use of the Khukuri and still does. A friend of mine once said to me: "Simon, he is as close to an expert on authentic khuks as I believe we’ll find."I buy most of my Kukris from Tora Blades because I need an effective tool in Alaska and it is a sound philosophy to use traditional tools that have been refined by time and are still used today by the average Nepali. The 2, 3, and 4 pound imported Kukris being sold in the west today are not used by anyone in Nepal. These blades are a result of the "Kukri Boom" in the western world. The heavy sacrificial Kukris are specialized choppers. The common man/woman in Nepali uses a sickle, a one (1) pound (more or less) Kukri, a billhook, and an axe. Note: Women do most of the hard work in Nepal . The above is just one man's views from his experience. If you do your homework you will find out what the average khukuri is from the links above. Check out everything and decide what is best for you. It might be a heavy Himalayan Imports Bonecruser kukri, a thick spined EGKH BSI, or a traditional Tora Havildar kukri. The choice is yours. Just have fun. Edit: If you are buying a Kukri or other blade for pure fun... anything goes and so disregard the above.
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Post by stickem on Aug 30, 2013 23:23:46 GMT
There's a wrench for every nut
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Post by sweetcostarica on Aug 31, 2013 1:04:13 GMT
:lol:
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Post by Timberwolf on Aug 31, 2013 14:35:01 GMT
Very true! Just remember, before using any knife, to check the nut behind the grip! :lol:
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