Review: Raptor vs. Dojo Pro
Sept 23, 2012 14:53:24 GMT
Post by stickem on Sept 23, 2012 14:53:24 GMT
Hanwei Raptor vs. Ronin Dojo Pro
Introduction
Hi all! I came to SBG Forum just six months ago with the same question many people have when they get here. Namely, “What sword should I buy?”
In an effort to repay the time and effort shown by Forum members when I posed this question, the following review is my humble attempt to show the results of what I bought with their advice and my currency. Although really all I wanted to get out of this was to have some kicks cutting up stuff, my hope is this review may prove of some use to those in the future who so often ask the Forum this same question.
Since my intention was to buy something to cut with and stay within the $300 budget criterion which characterizes the SBG Forum, I decided to get a through hardened blade. Two of the most common suggestions made were a Hanwei Raptor and a Ronin Dojo Pro. I was fortunate enough to buy both swords; however, at heart I am admittedly a cheapskate, so bought both swords scratch’n’dent. In this way, I was almost able to stay under budget, finding a Hanwei Raptor for $200 at Kult of Athena and a Ronin Dojo Pro for $150 directly from the manufacturer.
You can find the Raptor at KoA here:
kultofathena.com/product.asp?ite ... uri+Katana
And the Dojo Pro here:
www.roninkatana.com/dojopro2.html
for reference and pics of what new ones look like.
Both the swords I received had issues with the saya. I knew about these in advance, so no worries. Neither sword came with any other flaws of which I am aware. The blades appeared new (swords appeared to be in unused condition).
This review actually will be a double feature showing both swords head-to-head, Raptor vs. Dojo Pro. So grab some Orville Reddenbacher and Reese’s Cups, ‘cause this will be Godzilla vs. King Kong style B-movie review.
Historical Overview
While I enjoy learning about Japanese swordsmanship and forging, I am no historian. So perhaps ‘tis better to let the designers speak for themselves on this…
Raptor:
The Raptor is specifically made for folks like me, who have never wielded a katana before.
Here is a (lightly edited) quote from the Hanwei site describing the history of the style:
This version of the Raptor is shinogi-zukuri. You can find another review of it here:
www.japaneseswordsmanship.com.au/Raptor_Zukuri_Katana_sword_revi.html
Dojo Pro:
The Dojo Pro also is made specifically to be forgiving of a beginner’s first efforts at cutting.
Here is a (lightly edited) quote from the Ronin site describing the history of the style:
This version of the Dojo Pro is model #2. You can find another review of it here:
www.sword-buyers-guide.com/Dojo-Pro.html
Full Disclosure
I have no connection to the manufacturers or vendors of these swords. As noted above, they were paid for out of pocket. These vendors did not know prior to shipping them that I planned to review them. Please note, I am not a technogeek. My video and picture taking skills and equipment are admittedly novice level. As in, we took this stuff with my camera phone. So please don’t expect too much from the images in this review, and you won’t be disappointed.
Before anyone complains, please note the pics in this review are attachments, so you can get a better view of 'em by clicking on the thumbnails...
Initial Impressions
Raptor:
It arrived in a well-fitted piece of Styrofoam inside a cardboard box. My impression is Hanwei must have some pretty good ability to produce uniformly shaped swords if they are all to fit in the same pre-made piece of Styrofoam.
Two things jumped out at me when first handling the sword:
First, the tsuka. The wrap on the tsuka is a black suede, which feels pretty comfy on the hands. However, the tsuka is rather large, making the overall feel of the sword rather like a tool. It is often called an axe-handle tsuka for this reason.
Second, the fittings. They are an eagle theme. Which is cool if we are talking about a pack of Marlboros or belt buckle in Houston… but on a Japanese sword? Don’t get me wrong, I am American and we have bald eagles at a local lake I go watch on my way home from work sometimes. However, the theme just doesn’t fit a katana, in my opinion.
Dojo Pro:
First impression when drawing it from the saya was, “This is what a sword should feel like. It just feels like you could do some mayhem and mischief with this sword.
To be clear, the intention of this review is to provide a more functional review of what these swords are like following some cutting, rather that the look-what-I-just-got-in-the-mail type of review. So don't expect pictures of the boxes and bags they came in...
Statistics
I did not collect these data myself on the individual swords received. Rather, these data are taken directly from the manufacturer/vendor’s websites. So there may be some variation from what I actually have in hand…
Raptor:
Dojo Pro:
Components
The Blade/Nagasa: Both blades are through hardened, and so have no hamon. Neither has a bo-hi.
Raptor: Shinogi-zukuri shape with a satin finish.
Dojo Pro: Dōtanuki style with a more mirrored finish.
Advantage: Raptor
Based on aesthetics, the Dojo Pro has crisper lines and a nicer finish, in my opinion. The Raptor shows some browning (rust?) near the habaki as also noted by another owner in this thread:
forum.sword-buyers-guide.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=13332
This staining appeared not long after I used some Mother’s Mag to polish the blade.
Based on utility, the Raptor blade outperformed the Dojo Pro (more on this later). Hence, although it looks nicer, based on my cutting results, the blade is the Dojo Pro’s biggest flaw in my opinion.
The Handle/Tsuka
Raptor:
As mentioned before, the Raptor has a rather thick tsuka, with what looks to my rather untrained eye like a morozori shape. The black suede grip provides a nice positive grip which doesn’t slip in hand, and is soft to the touch. However, the diamonds are large and a bit uneven and the ito isn't super tight, but it does alternate. The samegawa has no emperor node, but this isn’t to be expected in this price range.
Dojo Pro:
The tsuka is thinner and more of the tapered rikko (hourglass) shape, which I prefer. The silk grip is harder to the touch than the Raptor and is black. The diamonds are smaller and nicer looking than the Raptor, but still a bit uneven. The ito does alternate and is wrapped tightly. The samegawa has no emperor node, and the nodes are smaller than those found on the Raptor.
Advantage: Dojo Pro
The Raptor so-called "axe-handle" tsuka is a bit large to grip easily and isn’t very well tapered at all. This is perhaps the sword’s biggest flaw. The Dojo Pro feels better in hand. The Dojo Pro tsuka is approximately an inch longer, and is thinner and more tapered, giving me a better handle with which to work.
The Guard/Tsuba
Raptor:
As mentioned before, the tsuba is of a raptor, which appears to be an eagle. Although the tsuba is described as being “traditionally blackened iron” on Hanwei’s website, it definitely is not so on the sword I received. The black (paint?) finish wears off the rim with normal handling, revealing a silver-colored metal beneath. Since it does not exhibit ferromagnetic properties when I tested it with a magnet, my best guess is the tusba is made of stainless steel. For more on this topic, please see this thread:
forum.sword-buyers-guide.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=13349
Dojo Pro:
The tsuba is ferromagnetic and seems to be made of iron (or more accurately, mild steel) as advertised. Although the tsuba is not super-thick, it does have graceful curvature and a simple elegance. It is of a different design than the #2 model (ochou) butterfly motif currently pictured on the Ronin website. Instead, it is more of an abstract design with four non-symmetric spaces cut out.
Advantage: Dojo Pro
As stated before, the eagle theme does not seem to fit a Japanese sword well. Add to this the problem with the tsuba losing its paint and not being made of iron, and the Dojo Pro wins easily.
Fittings
Raptor:
The menuki are brass feathers, and look decently cast. The seppa and habaki also are brass. The fuchi and kashira both have eagles on them. They are described as being blackened steel, and my guess is since neither is strongly ferromagnetic on this sword, they are composed of stainless steel as well.
Dojo Pro:
The menuki appear to be brass and are a shi-shi/lion dog theme, though it is a bit hard to make out what they are supposed to be as they aren't well done. They are of a gold color which is darker than the Raptor menuki. The seppa and habaki are brass, with the habaki showing some filing and nicer detailing than the Raptor. The fuchi and kashira are of a plain smooth design, and both are ferromagnetic, appearing to be made of iron (as advertised) aka mild steel.
Advantage:Dojo Pro
The Raptor fittings beg to be changed out, while the utilitarian look of the Dojo Pro fittings suit the sword well. I’ll keep the Dojo Pro fittings. The Raptor… well probably best to use something more Japanese looking and made of the materials they are advertised to be.
The Scabbard/Saya
Raptor:
The finish is a black matte with texture. It has some grip to it and does not show fingerprints easily. When I received it, the saya mouth was split and the sword fell out easily. As noted previously, the individual sword I bought was discounted $80 off the price because of this. I used the $80 saved to buy a silver koiguchi and fitted it to the saya mouth. In the future, I plan to wrap the mouth in rattan and shim the inside of the mouth with a sliver of wood to tighten the fit to the habaki a little. Since this problem was specific to the sword I bought, it may be caused by shipping or storage issues, and does not necessarily reflect a defect in the manufacturing process. Since the saya is fat, Raptors in general probably do not show this splitting issue with the wood being pretty thick.
Dojo Pro:
The finish is a shiny lacquer look which does show fingerprints. As noted previously, there is a tricuspid crack in the saya. However, this is probably isolated to the finish and does not seem to go through the wood best I can tell. It is located in an area where I cannot see it from the inside to be certain. The sword was discounted $125 on this point, so no complaining here.
Advantage: Raptor
Overall I like the black textured matte finish of the Raptor better, as it is more in line with the utilitarian nature of these swords than is having a shiny finish you’ll have to wipe down, as found on the Dojo Pro.
Handling Characteristics
Raptor:
It feels a little heavier than the Dojo Pro. If it were not for the soft suede on the handle, the Raptor probably would feel more like a farming/gardening tool than a sword, in my opinion, because of its large handle.
Dojo Pro:
In hand it just feels “like a sword should.” Dunno how to explain this in technical terms, but it feels right to me for fighting purposes. I never really know what people mean when they say things like “perfectly balanced” since this seems rather subjective and specific to the individual.
Advantage: Dojo Pro
I am 5’10” and 150 lbs with little body fat. I prefer to be able to move smoothly with speed and power when fighting rather than using brute force and strength. So the weightiness and handle thickness of the Raptor are not pleasing to me. I come from a martial arts background where using a sword one-handed (rather than two-handed, as a katana is usually implemented) is common. I could get away with using a Dojo Pro one-handed. The Raptor? Not easily.
Test Cutting
This is the interesting part of the review. Based on the overall appearance and feel of the two swords, I really liked the Dojo Pro. Many people with first-hand experience extol the virtues of these swords' toughness. Unfortunately, though in my heart of hearts I was rooting for the Dojo Pro to outperform the Raptor in cutting, this was not the case.
For testing, a friend and I harvested 30 stalks of green bamboo, with a diameter ranging from ½" to 3". For testing, we actually cut only 10 stalks with the swords, with a diameter of up to 2" because of the cutting environment (more on this later).
For background, my friend and I have several decades of martial arts experience between us, including weapons training (primarily Filipino blade and stick arts, as well as Chinese internal arts swordsmanship). However, neither of us has specifically practiced with, trained in, nor cut anything with a katana or had formal instruction in Japanese swordsmanship, at all, before doing this cutting. In my opinion, this is a good thing for purposes of this review, as the average new sword buyer doesn’t have formal training in Japanese swordsmanship either. We do, however, have enough experience with weapons to not injure ourselves (at least on this occasion).
A quick digression about safety: both my friend and I are health care professionals with some level of skill in crisis management/medical methods. Although we performed cutting in the middle of the woods, we were located within 10 minutes of the nearest ER, and had medical supplies on hand.
My first time cutting with a katana. Using a 2" stalk of bamboo...
My friend's first time cutting with a katana. He was so surprised to make the first cut cleanly, he completely botched his 2nd cut out of wonderment...
As you can see from these short videos, we both cut several thick stalks, we both handled both swords, and we both had some misaligned cuts. If you wish to criticize the technique and so on, go ahead. However, please keep in mind we claim absolutely no experience prior to testing with using a katana, so “sensei says” type comments will probably fall on deaf ears. All we claim to be able to do is cut 2” bamboo safely, not do instructional tameshigiri videos or be authentic-expert-ninja-samurai-warriors-using-nihonto-demostrating-most-excellent-skills-like-Mr.-Miyagi-san-says-to-Daniel-san-after-painting-his-fence :lol:
Test cutting showed the Raptor stood up to different thicknesses of beginners throwing both good and misaligned cuts at it without taking a scratch, set, or chip. The blade was a tough as advertised.
Please note, we did not hit any of the bamboo nodes, though we obviously did not have perfect blade alignment on every cut. I also can judge distance and aim well enough to use the kissaki only as the cutting surface. The kissaki of both swords were able to cut through the front half of the bamboo, leaving the back half intact. The kissaki of the Raptor showed little damage as a result of this “tip-only” cutting.
On the other hand, the Dojo Pro started taking damage immediately. There are two large chips, which I have tried to capture in pics, though my camera does not do focusing for close ups. The “tip-only” cutting damaged the kissaki, blunting the tip a little, making a chip, and sustaining scratches. The appreciable damage appeared on the distal third of the blade, indicating we probably did not accidentally use the proximal 2/3 of the blade as the cutting edge during testing.
We actually stopped using the Dojo Pro altogether about halfway through the testing, and then used the Raptor for the rest of the cutting. This was done because we weren’t doing destruction testing; rather we wanted to have fun cutting without worrying about tearing up the Ronin blade further.
We did not cut all the bamboo harvested because, as you can see, this little munchkin showed up at our campsite:
so we decided not to do any more cutting with the little one wandering around for safety purposes.
Conclusions
In almost all aspects (price, tsuka, fittings, feel, authenticity) the Ronin Dojo Pro outperformed the Raptor, save one... The blade just wasn’t tough. And when your primary motivation is to cut bamboo, this is the most crucial criterion to evaluate.
In the future, I would like to see and perform more of these head-to-head type tests. I am a scientist by training, so please note during testing the variables were controlled as closely as possible. For instance, the only cut we used was a 45 degree diagonal downward strike, from right to left, as this is the easiest cut to perform, called kesa-giri in Japanese. All the bamboo was from the same source. All cuts were made during the same session, and so on...
For the moment, I will be practicing more cutting in the backyard with the Raptor. Once I have achieved a little more skill, I hope to do head-to-head reviews of other entry-level cutting swords (e.g., Kris Cutlery, Dynasty Forge, and Hung Shing True Sharp) to give you all a firsthand account of how they hold up in a real environment, rather than just how they look coming out of the box.
Pros
Raptor:
~ Blade holds up nicely to cutting tough targets in the hands of folks new to Japanese style swords, like us. This is its best asset, in my opinion.
~ Suede tsuka ito feels good in hand when cutting.
~ Blade geometry showed no problems getting hung up when cutting as long as we had good blade alignment.
~ Matte textured finish is a nice thing on a saya you are going to be using practically, though overall the saya is a little fat like the tsuka.
~ Price tag was less than half of MSRP.
Cons
~ Tsuka is too thick and weight is a little heavy for my body type and fighting preferences.This is its biggest flaw, in my opinion.
~ The tsuba is not what it is advertised to be composed of and the overall styling of the fittings does not suit my tastes. Their finish rubs off under normal conditions. This appears to be a case of false advertising.
~ The blade shows some mysterious browning (rusting?) near the habaki.
Dojo Pro:
Pros
~ The sword feels authentic in hand. It is not at all difficult to imagine myself as Ogami Ittō slaying folks left and right with this sword in one hand, and a baby cart in the other. This is the sword’s biggest asset, in my opinion.
~ The fittings are utilitarian and nicely done for this price range.
~ The buffalo horn on the kurikata is nicely polished and shows some marbling.
~ The price is significantly reduced from the MSRP of $275, and the saya ding it came with is well worth the discount.
Cons
~ The blade did not hold up to cutting bamboo. Before anyone gets out the pitchforks and torches in an attempt to lynch me for saying this, I can only relate my own experience. Your mileage with a different blade of this same type may indeed vary. I may have got a lemon in this case as far as tempering goes or some other factor which affects the blade's toughness, given others’ accounts of this blade’s toughness under similar circumstances. Also note the bamboo I use is from my personal grove, which contains really mature and thick culms. These ain't spaghetti or pool noodles! They are hard.
As an example of other results people with more experience than I have gotten, please see this destruction testing review of the Dojo Pro:
and this cutting video from James Williams with the Raptor:
The Bottom Line
I would recommend either of these swords to anyone who is a beginner at cutting with Japanese swords, especially for the prices I paid for them. If you want something to cut hard targets with, my experience is the Raptor holds up better than the Dojo Pro to heavy use on bamboo during the learning curve. If you are gonna cut hard targets, I say you can't go wrong with a Raptor.
Hope this helps you all in making your buying decisions, and happy cutting!
~ Stick’em
Introduction
Hi all! I came to SBG Forum just six months ago with the same question many people have when they get here. Namely, “What sword should I buy?”
In an effort to repay the time and effort shown by Forum members when I posed this question, the following review is my humble attempt to show the results of what I bought with their advice and my currency. Although really all I wanted to get out of this was to have some kicks cutting up stuff, my hope is this review may prove of some use to those in the future who so often ask the Forum this same question.
Since my intention was to buy something to cut with and stay within the $300 budget criterion which characterizes the SBG Forum, I decided to get a through hardened blade. Two of the most common suggestions made were a Hanwei Raptor and a Ronin Dojo Pro. I was fortunate enough to buy both swords; however, at heart I am admittedly a cheapskate, so bought both swords scratch’n’dent. In this way, I was almost able to stay under budget, finding a Hanwei Raptor for $200 at Kult of Athena and a Ronin Dojo Pro for $150 directly from the manufacturer.
You can find the Raptor at KoA here:
kultofathena.com/product.asp?ite ... uri+Katana
And the Dojo Pro here:
www.roninkatana.com/dojopro2.html
for reference and pics of what new ones look like.
Both the swords I received had issues with the saya. I knew about these in advance, so no worries. Neither sword came with any other flaws of which I am aware. The blades appeared new (swords appeared to be in unused condition).
This review actually will be a double feature showing both swords head-to-head, Raptor vs. Dojo Pro. So grab some Orville Reddenbacher and Reese’s Cups, ‘cause this will be Godzilla vs. King Kong style B-movie review.
Historical Overview
While I enjoy learning about Japanese swordsmanship and forging, I am no historian. So perhaps ‘tis better to let the designers speak for themselves on this…
Raptor:
The Raptor is specifically made for folks like me, who have never wielded a katana before.
Here is a (lightly edited) quote from the Hanwei site describing the history of the style:
Designed under the auspices of cutting master James Williams, the Raptor series has been created for the cutting practitioner who does not necessarily have access to mats, and who wishes to practice and perfect his cutting technique. The blades are forged in 5160 high-carbon steel and are specially heat treated to produce very high resilience and greater tolerance of misdirected cuts than a conventional differentially tempered blade. This steel structure also avoids the need for excessive thickness, allowing the blades to replicate the weight and handling characteristics of Japanese originals. The edge geometry is configured to facilitate the cutting of both soft and semi-hard materials without chipping, allowing the cutter a wide choice of targets.
The Raptor Shinogi-Zukuri blade, which has evolved as the most common Japanese katana blade design, provides both speed and cutting power. Featuring a distinct yokote, such blades were originally produced after the Heian period, around 987 AD.
The Raptor Shinogi-Zukuri blade, which has evolved as the most common Japanese katana blade design, provides both speed and cutting power. Featuring a distinct yokote, such blades were originally produced after the Heian period, around 987 AD.
This version of the Raptor is shinogi-zukuri. You can find another review of it here:
www.japaneseswordsmanship.com.au/Raptor_Zukuri_Katana_sword_revi.html
Dojo Pro:
The Dojo Pro also is made specifically to be forgiving of a beginner’s first efforts at cutting.
Here is a (lightly edited) quote from the Ronin site describing the history of the style:
Dōtanuki is a Japanese swordsmithing school developed in the Higo province of Kyūshū during the Kamakura period. The Japanese kanji for dōtanuki translates to sword that cuts through torsos. While samurai routinely tested their blades on the bodies of convicted criminals to judge their cutting ability, dōtanuki blades were renowned for cutting through the bodies of armored opponents.
The thick wide body blades were forged in both bohi (with groove) and no hi (without groove) styles, although the solid no hi blades were by far the most common. The dōtanuki's thickness and durability helped them obtain their vicious reputation during the Japanese conquest of Korea, where they were heavily used by daimyō Katō Kiyomasa's personal samurai. Their popularity peaked during the Azuchi-Momoyama (1568-1600) period, and began to fade
rapidly thereafter as Japan entered a period of relative peace and stability.
The dōtanuki style was all but forgotten until Japanese manga writer Kazuo Koike reintroduced it the famous ‘70s magna series Lone Wolf and Cub. (In this series and the movies and TV shows it spawned) the ronin Ogami Ittō uses a dōtanuki blade in his quest for revenge on the Yagyū clan.
The thick wide body blades were forged in both bohi (with groove) and no hi (without groove) styles, although the solid no hi blades were by far the most common. The dōtanuki's thickness and durability helped them obtain their vicious reputation during the Japanese conquest of Korea, where they were heavily used by daimyō Katō Kiyomasa's personal samurai. Their popularity peaked during the Azuchi-Momoyama (1568-1600) period, and began to fade
rapidly thereafter as Japan entered a period of relative peace and stability.
The dōtanuki style was all but forgotten until Japanese manga writer Kazuo Koike reintroduced it the famous ‘70s magna series Lone Wolf and Cub. (In this series and the movies and TV shows it spawned) the ronin Ogami Ittō uses a dōtanuki blade in his quest for revenge on the Yagyū clan.
This version of the Dojo Pro is model #2. You can find another review of it here:
www.sword-buyers-guide.com/Dojo-Pro.html
Full Disclosure
I have no connection to the manufacturers or vendors of these swords. As noted above, they were paid for out of pocket. These vendors did not know prior to shipping them that I planned to review them. Please note, I am not a technogeek. My video and picture taking skills and equipment are admittedly novice level. As in, we took this stuff with my camera phone. So please don’t expect too much from the images in this review, and you won’t be disappointed.
Before anyone complains, please note the pics in this review are attachments, so you can get a better view of 'em by clicking on the thumbnails...
Initial Impressions
Raptor:
It arrived in a well-fitted piece of Styrofoam inside a cardboard box. My impression is Hanwei must have some pretty good ability to produce uniformly shaped swords if they are all to fit in the same pre-made piece of Styrofoam.
Two things jumped out at me when first handling the sword:
First, the tsuka. The wrap on the tsuka is a black suede, which feels pretty comfy on the hands. However, the tsuka is rather large, making the overall feel of the sword rather like a tool. It is often called an axe-handle tsuka for this reason.
Second, the fittings. They are an eagle theme. Which is cool if we are talking about a pack of Marlboros or belt buckle in Houston… but on a Japanese sword? Don’t get me wrong, I am American and we have bald eagles at a local lake I go watch on my way home from work sometimes. However, the theme just doesn’t fit a katana, in my opinion.
Dojo Pro:
First impression when drawing it from the saya was, “This is what a sword should feel like. It just feels like you could do some mayhem and mischief with this sword.
To be clear, the intention of this review is to provide a more functional review of what these swords are like following some cutting, rather that the look-what-I-just-got-in-the-mail type of review. So don't expect pictures of the boxes and bags they came in...
Statistics
I did not collect these data myself on the individual swords received. Rather, these data are taken directly from the manufacturer/vendor’s websites. So there may be some variation from what I actually have in hand…
Raptor:
Blade - Forged from 5160 high-carbon steel, marquenched to an edge hardness of 57HRc.
Tang (Nakago) - Full length, double pegged.
Ferrules (Habaki) – Brass
Handle (Tsuka) - Wood core, genuine rayskin (Same), special non-stretch sueded wrap (Tsuka-ito) for firm grip and wear resistance. Raptor feathers hilt ornaments (Menuki).
Guard (Tsuba) - Traditional blackened iron, Raptor motif.
Fittings (Fuchi/Kashira) - Blackened steel, Raptor motif.
Scabbard (Saya) - Wood, non-fingerprinting textured lacquer finish.
Overall: 40 ¼ "
Blade Length: 28 ¾ "
Handle Length: 11" (Hanwei) or 10 1/8'' (KoA)
Weight: 2lb 9oz (Hanwei) or 2lb 11 oz (KoA)
P.O.B.: 5 1/4''
Thickness: 7.2 mm - 5 mm
Width: 33 mm Grip Length: 10 1/8''
MSRP: $490
Tang (Nakago) - Full length, double pegged.
Ferrules (Habaki) – Brass
Handle (Tsuka) - Wood core, genuine rayskin (Same), special non-stretch sueded wrap (Tsuka-ito) for firm grip and wear resistance. Raptor feathers hilt ornaments (Menuki).
Guard (Tsuba) - Traditional blackened iron, Raptor motif.
Fittings (Fuchi/Kashira) - Blackened steel, Raptor motif.
Scabbard (Saya) - Wood, non-fingerprinting textured lacquer finish.
Overall: 40 ¼ "
Blade Length: 28 ¾ "
Handle Length: 11" (Hanwei) or 10 1/8'' (KoA)
Weight: 2lb 9oz (Hanwei) or 2lb 11 oz (KoA)
P.O.B.: 5 1/4''
Thickness: 7.2 mm - 5 mm
Width: 33 mm Grip Length: 10 1/8''
MSRP: $490
Dojo Pro:
Steel: Through hardened 1060
Saya: Hand cut and polished buffalo horn Kurikata, Koguchi and Kojiri.
Weight: 2.6 pounds
POB: 4 1/2- 5 inches
Length in saya: 42 inches
Tsuka: 11 inches
Blade: 28 inches
Habaki to tip: 27 inches
Ito: Silk
Sageo: Synthetic silk
Fuchi: Backened iron
Kashira: Blackened iron
Menuki: Brass
MSRP: $275
Saya: Hand cut and polished buffalo horn Kurikata, Koguchi and Kojiri.
Weight: 2.6 pounds
POB: 4 1/2- 5 inches
Length in saya: 42 inches
Tsuka: 11 inches
Blade: 28 inches
Habaki to tip: 27 inches
Ito: Silk
Sageo: Synthetic silk
Fuchi: Backened iron
Kashira: Blackened iron
Menuki: Brass
MSRP: $275
Components
The Blade/Nagasa: Both blades are through hardened, and so have no hamon. Neither has a bo-hi.
Raptor: Shinogi-zukuri shape with a satin finish.
Dojo Pro: Dōtanuki style with a more mirrored finish.
Advantage: Raptor
Based on aesthetics, the Dojo Pro has crisper lines and a nicer finish, in my opinion. The Raptor shows some browning (rust?) near the habaki as also noted by another owner in this thread:
forum.sword-buyers-guide.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=13332
This staining appeared not long after I used some Mother’s Mag to polish the blade.
Based on utility, the Raptor blade outperformed the Dojo Pro (more on this later). Hence, although it looks nicer, based on my cutting results, the blade is the Dojo Pro’s biggest flaw in my opinion.
The Handle/Tsuka
Raptor:
As mentioned before, the Raptor has a rather thick tsuka, with what looks to my rather untrained eye like a morozori shape. The black suede grip provides a nice positive grip which doesn’t slip in hand, and is soft to the touch. However, the diamonds are large and a bit uneven and the ito isn't super tight, but it does alternate. The samegawa has no emperor node, but this isn’t to be expected in this price range.
Dojo Pro:
The tsuka is thinner and more of the tapered rikko (hourglass) shape, which I prefer. The silk grip is harder to the touch than the Raptor and is black. The diamonds are smaller and nicer looking than the Raptor, but still a bit uneven. The ito does alternate and is wrapped tightly. The samegawa has no emperor node, and the nodes are smaller than those found on the Raptor.
Advantage: Dojo Pro
The Raptor so-called "axe-handle" tsuka is a bit large to grip easily and isn’t very well tapered at all. This is perhaps the sword’s biggest flaw. The Dojo Pro feels better in hand. The Dojo Pro tsuka is approximately an inch longer, and is thinner and more tapered, giving me a better handle with which to work.
The Guard/Tsuba
Raptor:
As mentioned before, the tsuba is of a raptor, which appears to be an eagle. Although the tsuba is described as being “traditionally blackened iron” on Hanwei’s website, it definitely is not so on the sword I received. The black (paint?) finish wears off the rim with normal handling, revealing a silver-colored metal beneath. Since it does not exhibit ferromagnetic properties when I tested it with a magnet, my best guess is the tusba is made of stainless steel. For more on this topic, please see this thread:
forum.sword-buyers-guide.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=13349
Dojo Pro:
The tsuba is ferromagnetic and seems to be made of iron (or more accurately, mild steel) as advertised. Although the tsuba is not super-thick, it does have graceful curvature and a simple elegance. It is of a different design than the #2 model (ochou) butterfly motif currently pictured on the Ronin website. Instead, it is more of an abstract design with four non-symmetric spaces cut out.
Advantage: Dojo Pro
As stated before, the eagle theme does not seem to fit a Japanese sword well. Add to this the problem with the tsuba losing its paint and not being made of iron, and the Dojo Pro wins easily.
Fittings
Raptor:
The menuki are brass feathers, and look decently cast. The seppa and habaki also are brass. The fuchi and kashira both have eagles on them. They are described as being blackened steel, and my guess is since neither is strongly ferromagnetic on this sword, they are composed of stainless steel as well.
Dojo Pro:
The menuki appear to be brass and are a shi-shi/lion dog theme, though it is a bit hard to make out what they are supposed to be as they aren't well done. They are of a gold color which is darker than the Raptor menuki. The seppa and habaki are brass, with the habaki showing some filing and nicer detailing than the Raptor. The fuchi and kashira are of a plain smooth design, and both are ferromagnetic, appearing to be made of iron (as advertised) aka mild steel.
Advantage:Dojo Pro
The Raptor fittings beg to be changed out, while the utilitarian look of the Dojo Pro fittings suit the sword well. I’ll keep the Dojo Pro fittings. The Raptor… well probably best to use something more Japanese looking and made of the materials they are advertised to be.
The Scabbard/Saya
Raptor:
The finish is a black matte with texture. It has some grip to it and does not show fingerprints easily. When I received it, the saya mouth was split and the sword fell out easily. As noted previously, the individual sword I bought was discounted $80 off the price because of this. I used the $80 saved to buy a silver koiguchi and fitted it to the saya mouth. In the future, I plan to wrap the mouth in rattan and shim the inside of the mouth with a sliver of wood to tighten the fit to the habaki a little. Since this problem was specific to the sword I bought, it may be caused by shipping or storage issues, and does not necessarily reflect a defect in the manufacturing process. Since the saya is fat, Raptors in general probably do not show this splitting issue with the wood being pretty thick.
Dojo Pro:
The finish is a shiny lacquer look which does show fingerprints. As noted previously, there is a tricuspid crack in the saya. However, this is probably isolated to the finish and does not seem to go through the wood best I can tell. It is located in an area where I cannot see it from the inside to be certain. The sword was discounted $125 on this point, so no complaining here.
Advantage: Raptor
Overall I like the black textured matte finish of the Raptor better, as it is more in line with the utilitarian nature of these swords than is having a shiny finish you’ll have to wipe down, as found on the Dojo Pro.
Handling Characteristics
Raptor:
It feels a little heavier than the Dojo Pro. If it were not for the soft suede on the handle, the Raptor probably would feel more like a farming/gardening tool than a sword, in my opinion, because of its large handle.
Dojo Pro:
In hand it just feels “like a sword should.” Dunno how to explain this in technical terms, but it feels right to me for fighting purposes. I never really know what people mean when they say things like “perfectly balanced” since this seems rather subjective and specific to the individual.
Advantage: Dojo Pro
I am 5’10” and 150 lbs with little body fat. I prefer to be able to move smoothly with speed and power when fighting rather than using brute force and strength. So the weightiness and handle thickness of the Raptor are not pleasing to me. I come from a martial arts background where using a sword one-handed (rather than two-handed, as a katana is usually implemented) is common. I could get away with using a Dojo Pro one-handed. The Raptor? Not easily.
Test Cutting
This is the interesting part of the review. Based on the overall appearance and feel of the two swords, I really liked the Dojo Pro. Many people with first-hand experience extol the virtues of these swords' toughness. Unfortunately, though in my heart of hearts I was rooting for the Dojo Pro to outperform the Raptor in cutting, this was not the case.
For testing, a friend and I harvested 30 stalks of green bamboo, with a diameter ranging from ½" to 3". For testing, we actually cut only 10 stalks with the swords, with a diameter of up to 2" because of the cutting environment (more on this later).
For background, my friend and I have several decades of martial arts experience between us, including weapons training (primarily Filipino blade and stick arts, as well as Chinese internal arts swordsmanship). However, neither of us has specifically practiced with, trained in, nor cut anything with a katana or had formal instruction in Japanese swordsmanship, at all, before doing this cutting. In my opinion, this is a good thing for purposes of this review, as the average new sword buyer doesn’t have formal training in Japanese swordsmanship either. We do, however, have enough experience with weapons to not injure ourselves (at least on this occasion).
A quick digression about safety: both my friend and I are health care professionals with some level of skill in crisis management/medical methods. Although we performed cutting in the middle of the woods, we were located within 10 minutes of the nearest ER, and had medical supplies on hand.
My first time cutting with a katana. Using a 2" stalk of bamboo...
My friend's first time cutting with a katana. He was so surprised to make the first cut cleanly, he completely botched his 2nd cut out of wonderment...
As you can see from these short videos, we both cut several thick stalks, we both handled both swords, and we both had some misaligned cuts. If you wish to criticize the technique and so on, go ahead. However, please keep in mind we claim absolutely no experience prior to testing with using a katana, so “sensei says” type comments will probably fall on deaf ears. All we claim to be able to do is cut 2” bamboo safely, not do instructional tameshigiri videos or be authentic-expert-ninja-samurai-warriors-using-nihonto-demostrating-most-excellent-skills-like-Mr.-Miyagi-san-says-to-Daniel-san-after-painting-his-fence :lol:
Test cutting showed the Raptor stood up to different thicknesses of beginners throwing both good and misaligned cuts at it without taking a scratch, set, or chip. The blade was a tough as advertised.
Please note, we did not hit any of the bamboo nodes, though we obviously did not have perfect blade alignment on every cut. I also can judge distance and aim well enough to use the kissaki only as the cutting surface. The kissaki of both swords were able to cut through the front half of the bamboo, leaving the back half intact. The kissaki of the Raptor showed little damage as a result of this “tip-only” cutting.
On the other hand, the Dojo Pro started taking damage immediately. There are two large chips, which I have tried to capture in pics, though my camera does not do focusing for close ups. The “tip-only” cutting damaged the kissaki, blunting the tip a little, making a chip, and sustaining scratches. The appreciable damage appeared on the distal third of the blade, indicating we probably did not accidentally use the proximal 2/3 of the blade as the cutting edge during testing.
We actually stopped using the Dojo Pro altogether about halfway through the testing, and then used the Raptor for the rest of the cutting. This was done because we weren’t doing destruction testing; rather we wanted to have fun cutting without worrying about tearing up the Ronin blade further.
We did not cut all the bamboo harvested because, as you can see, this little munchkin showed up at our campsite:
so we decided not to do any more cutting with the little one wandering around for safety purposes.
Conclusions
In almost all aspects (price, tsuka, fittings, feel, authenticity) the Ronin Dojo Pro outperformed the Raptor, save one... The blade just wasn’t tough. And when your primary motivation is to cut bamboo, this is the most crucial criterion to evaluate.
In the future, I would like to see and perform more of these head-to-head type tests. I am a scientist by training, so please note during testing the variables were controlled as closely as possible. For instance, the only cut we used was a 45 degree diagonal downward strike, from right to left, as this is the easiest cut to perform, called kesa-giri in Japanese. All the bamboo was from the same source. All cuts were made during the same session, and so on...
For the moment, I will be practicing more cutting in the backyard with the Raptor. Once I have achieved a little more skill, I hope to do head-to-head reviews of other entry-level cutting swords (e.g., Kris Cutlery, Dynasty Forge, and Hung Shing True Sharp) to give you all a firsthand account of how they hold up in a real environment, rather than just how they look coming out of the box.
Pros
Raptor:
~ Blade holds up nicely to cutting tough targets in the hands of folks new to Japanese style swords, like us. This is its best asset, in my opinion.
~ Suede tsuka ito feels good in hand when cutting.
~ Blade geometry showed no problems getting hung up when cutting as long as we had good blade alignment.
~ Matte textured finish is a nice thing on a saya you are going to be using practically, though overall the saya is a little fat like the tsuka.
~ Price tag was less than half of MSRP.
Cons
~ Tsuka is too thick and weight is a little heavy for my body type and fighting preferences.This is its biggest flaw, in my opinion.
~ The tsuba is not what it is advertised to be composed of and the overall styling of the fittings does not suit my tastes. Their finish rubs off under normal conditions. This appears to be a case of false advertising.
~ The blade shows some mysterious browning (rusting?) near the habaki.
Dojo Pro:
Pros
~ The sword feels authentic in hand. It is not at all difficult to imagine myself as Ogami Ittō slaying folks left and right with this sword in one hand, and a baby cart in the other. This is the sword’s biggest asset, in my opinion.
~ The fittings are utilitarian and nicely done for this price range.
~ The buffalo horn on the kurikata is nicely polished and shows some marbling.
~ The price is significantly reduced from the MSRP of $275, and the saya ding it came with is well worth the discount.
Cons
~ The blade did not hold up to cutting bamboo. Before anyone gets out the pitchforks and torches in an attempt to lynch me for saying this, I can only relate my own experience. Your mileage with a different blade of this same type may indeed vary. I may have got a lemon in this case as far as tempering goes or some other factor which affects the blade's toughness, given others’ accounts of this blade’s toughness under similar circumstances. Also note the bamboo I use is from my personal grove, which contains really mature and thick culms. These ain't spaghetti or pool noodles! They are hard.
As an example of other results people with more experience than I have gotten, please see this destruction testing review of the Dojo Pro:
and this cutting video from James Williams with the Raptor:
The Bottom Line
I would recommend either of these swords to anyone who is a beginner at cutting with Japanese swords, especially for the prices I paid for them. If you want something to cut hard targets with, my experience is the Raptor holds up better than the Dojo Pro to heavy use on bamboo during the learning curve. If you are gonna cut hard targets, I say you can't go wrong with a Raptor.
Hope this helps you all in making your buying decisions, and happy cutting!
~ Stick’em