Khukuri: Historical Authenticity vs. Modern Preferences
Aug 18, 2013 22:02:51 GMT
Post by Timberwolf on Aug 18, 2013 22:02:51 GMT
Khukuri: Historical Authenticity vs. Modern Preferences
As in the rest of the world, with debates regarding Ford Vs. Chevy, .45 ACP vs. 9mm Parabellum, Harleys vs. Sport Bikes, and much more, there are differences of opinion regarding the khukuri. I want to explore this and I invite all of you to toss in your 2 cents.
I'm coming to some final decisions about designs for my khuk collection, but a lot of people out there are definitely looking for a lot more info about these fine and unique knives. I want them to walk away from here with the knowledge they need to make a well-informed purchase. Providing links would be very helpful, and I'm also looking to become much more educated about the khukuri. You can never have enough knowledge.
This is a subject that has no right or wrong, it's all personal preference. I think it's fine to express your opinion and back it up with your reasoning, even passionately. Just keep it friendly. I'm not a mod, but I won't put up with anyone trashing what WILL be a good thread. OK?
First off, I'd like to express my sincere thanks to the following people/sites for their extensive research and knowledge of the khukuri, I've learned a LOT from all of you:
- Mr. Saroj Lama Tamang and the research team of Khukuri House Handicraft Industry, TheKhukuriHouse.com (KHHI)
- Mr. Bill Martino (deceased), Howard Wallace, John Powell, Kami Sherpa, and the people of Himilayan Imports, including Karda and the gang at the HI Forum at Bladeforums.com.
yhst-7333098713883.stores.yahoo.net/index.html (HI)
- Mr. Simon Hengle of Tora Blades and the people of the Torablades Forum, at
ToraBlades.com (Tora)
- Many other sources that would take up too much space to mention. Books, internet articles, etc.
OK, Let's get going. A brief overview of khuks:
In short, the khukuri, or kukri, either is acceptable, is the forward curved national knife of Nepal. It is both a weapon and a daily usage tool. There are many common lengths, weights, and designs. Typically, the blades range from 7" to 22.5", and the weights go from 300g to 1800g. Of the designs that are most popular, the main two are the Bhojpure/Angkhola, which have a wider profile, and the Sirupate/Chitlange, which are slimmer and more parallel. But it's really tough to pin the khukuri down to just a few categories.
Courteousy of KHHI:
"Shapes and sizes of khukuris from ancient to modern ones have varied intensely from place to place, person to person, maker to maker, and so forth. Khukuri made in the Eastern village Bhojpur, very famous for khukuris, make a fat, thick blade, whereas the Sirupate, the most famous khukuri in Nepal, is very slim and thin. Similarly, khukuris from Salyan are long and slender, with a deeper belly, and Dhankuta, a village in the east, make simple standard army type blades, but give emphasis to the scabbard by making it decorative and ornate. Khukuris made during the 18th and 19th century were much longer and more curved than their modern counterparts. The shapes were often very broad belly and heavy, or very curved and slender, thus very light. Only the standard army issue were, and are, made of the same dimensions and measurements, in order to bring uniformity and tidiness to the unit; whereas local khukuris still continue to vary from one another, making it impossible to characterize or distinguish a particular khukuri from the rest. Moreover, since all khukuris are totally handmade, even the same type and version tend to differ a bit, leaving the impression of the habitual of the maker and his individuality."
I don't have permission to use any photos from any of these manufacturers (yet?), so you'll have to go to their sites to see the differences. Plus, I'm writing a lot here, and I'm too lazy to go searching for pics right now!
Traditional handles are typically East Indian Rosewood or Saatisal. Water buffalo horn was a common material, but there are restrictions on using that now. I believe that the last of the horn handles will be produced in the next year, then it will be gone.
The traditional support in the handle has 3 basic constructions. The rat tail tang and stick tang have a very long history, and are hot glued/epoxied into the grip. Since the early 1900's, the exposed and riveted flat full tang has become common. This is said to be due to heavy British influence.
The traditional handle is flared or bell shaped at the pommel, and has no forward guard or quillon. Again, you can see pics of them on these sites.
The modern khukuris used as tools in Nepal cover the entire range mentioned above, and are subject to no real restrictions, although they mainly stay within those specifications.
Although common khukuris have been made in all shapes, sizes, and weights over the centuries, the common fighting khukuri has been made famous by the Nepalese warriors, the Gurkhas, since the British/Nepalese War of 1814-1815. If we consider the 1800's to the present to be the era of the modern khukuri, the fighting khukuri has been of medium length, has a wide profile, and is relatively light. 10" to 14" and 400g to 850g seem to be the most common specifications. Although not the standard issue, combat sirupati are not uncommon.
I won't get into the sheaths too much, I want to focus primarily on blades and handles. Sheaths/scabbards are usually custom fitted individually for each khuk. 2 pieces of lightweight wood are hollowed out and glued together. Then they are wrapped in hide or leather, colored with shoe polish, and that's the end of the story.
Also, I don't want to get into the small utility knife and the sharpening/flint steel, called the Karda and Chakmak. Good sized ones, 4"+, are cool with me. Smaller ones are decorative and usually not even practical. Just my opinion. Although I've heard that the Nepalese themselves usually don't use these things. Enough about them. Order good ones if you like them.
So, that covers the basics of the traditional Khukuri. Tell me if I missed anything, this is just a first draft that I tossed up here to get things started.
Now, to the modern Western style of khukuri. I'll make this very simple. It's whatever doesn't fit into the category of traditional khuks.
As far as any manufacturers of khukuris, I'm going to give you a combination of what I and many others have discovered. In other words, who to buy from, and some quick details about these people. I'm going to be VERY OBJECTIVE here, and leave out my personal opinions. After EXTENSIVE research, I've found this all to be factual. Yes, and many other people have said what I'm telling you now.
You'll notice that I mentioned only 3 companies before? Well, that is because they are the only 3 that I could honestly recommend. They are also the favorite companies of ALL the people I know who own khuks. Any other company making khuks is at best simply substandard, and more likely run by a copycat or even a thief, to put it bluntly. They mimic the company name of KHHI, and steal the product names and designs of ALL 3 reputable companies. So there!
You might get lucky and get a great product from these others, but you're doing it at the expense of the ORIGINAL people who put a LOT of time and creative energy into designing and producing what are usually very fine products. Granted, there are QC issues with each of these 3 GOOD companies, but we see that with the katana makers as well. Just remember you're not dealing with an American or European company cranking out CNC machined perfection. Like the katana, these are all handmade by poor people in a 3rd world country. Unlike the katana, the Nepali don't have huge forges like they do in Longquan. OK?
Tora Blades:
The focus here is to provide historically accurate, authentic fighting Khukuris that are truly based on real khuks used by the British Gurkha Army and other Nepalese forces. There are 13 combat models listed on their site, ranging from 10.4" to 13.8" and 425g to 750g. Almost all of their khuks are traditionally styled with a stick tang. The Tora Mk2 kukri has a full tang wooden handle.
Himilayan Imports:
The focus here is on a traditionally styled but heavy khuk, mostly stick tang, but I think you can order anything you want in a full tang, riveted "Chiruwa" style. HI also makes at least 15 models that fall into the authentic lightweight fighting category, but out of 28 khuks listed on the main site, most are very heavy for their size and they are very proud of that! There are a few that even warn you to be fit and strong before you engage in hacking away with these bad boys!
NOTICE: HI measures their khuks in OVERALL length! NOT blade length!
KHHI:
The focus here is? Well, take your pick. Their website says they focus on "genuine, handmade, Nepalese Khukuris". All of that is true. I say they make everything you can imagine and more. Of the over 130 models on their site, at least a few dozen fit into the category of being authentic lightweight fighting khukuris. They have lots of traditional stick tang models, as well as full tang, riveted "Panawals" and "Sirupanas". They are very proud of their variety, and will create almost any custom khuk you can design. That's all I will say about KHHI.
OK, back to the point of this thread. All 3 of these manufacturers make traditional, authentic combat khuks, but Tora is the only one that isolates that as their focus. Some people swear by that company and won't own anything else. Others love the weight of the HI stuff, and they also have dedicated customers. Still others like the Western styled khuks from KHHI and wouldn't own a stick tang traditional handled khuk unless you gave it to them for free. (EVERYONE likes free stuff! LOL!)
And some of us like it all and wonder what all the fuss is about. :lol:
So, have at it. What is your preference? Do you have one? Explain what it is and why, give us all the positives of your perspective. Focus on informing the new person who will come by, or educating those of us who want to know more. Comparisons and contrasts are fine, but refrain from slamming the other guys or a different perspective. This is supposed to be fun.
And if you're new to this? Look around and do a lot of research. Then come back and ask some questions. I might not be around, but we have a group of people here that know enough about khuks to help you get going.
-------------------------------------------
Well, that's all for now. I'll be back later, I have stuff to do. Play nice, now!
Thanks ...
(Edited to get the danged links to work!) :oops:
(Finally got all the corrections/typos) :roll: :lol:
As in the rest of the world, with debates regarding Ford Vs. Chevy, .45 ACP vs. 9mm Parabellum, Harleys vs. Sport Bikes, and much more, there are differences of opinion regarding the khukuri. I want to explore this and I invite all of you to toss in your 2 cents.
I'm coming to some final decisions about designs for my khuk collection, but a lot of people out there are definitely looking for a lot more info about these fine and unique knives. I want them to walk away from here with the knowledge they need to make a well-informed purchase. Providing links would be very helpful, and I'm also looking to become much more educated about the khukuri. You can never have enough knowledge.
This is a subject that has no right or wrong, it's all personal preference. I think it's fine to express your opinion and back it up with your reasoning, even passionately. Just keep it friendly. I'm not a mod, but I won't put up with anyone trashing what WILL be a good thread. OK?
First off, I'd like to express my sincere thanks to the following people/sites for their extensive research and knowledge of the khukuri, I've learned a LOT from all of you:
- Mr. Saroj Lama Tamang and the research team of Khukuri House Handicraft Industry, TheKhukuriHouse.com (KHHI)
- Mr. Bill Martino (deceased), Howard Wallace, John Powell, Kami Sherpa, and the people of Himilayan Imports, including Karda and the gang at the HI Forum at Bladeforums.com.
yhst-7333098713883.stores.yahoo.net/index.html (HI)
- Mr. Simon Hengle of Tora Blades and the people of the Torablades Forum, at
ToraBlades.com (Tora)
- Many other sources that would take up too much space to mention. Books, internet articles, etc.
OK, Let's get going. A brief overview of khuks:
In short, the khukuri, or kukri, either is acceptable, is the forward curved national knife of Nepal. It is both a weapon and a daily usage tool. There are many common lengths, weights, and designs. Typically, the blades range from 7" to 22.5", and the weights go from 300g to 1800g. Of the designs that are most popular, the main two are the Bhojpure/Angkhola, which have a wider profile, and the Sirupate/Chitlange, which are slimmer and more parallel. But it's really tough to pin the khukuri down to just a few categories.
Courteousy of KHHI:
"Shapes and sizes of khukuris from ancient to modern ones have varied intensely from place to place, person to person, maker to maker, and so forth. Khukuri made in the Eastern village Bhojpur, very famous for khukuris, make a fat, thick blade, whereas the Sirupate, the most famous khukuri in Nepal, is very slim and thin. Similarly, khukuris from Salyan are long and slender, with a deeper belly, and Dhankuta, a village in the east, make simple standard army type blades, but give emphasis to the scabbard by making it decorative and ornate. Khukuris made during the 18th and 19th century were much longer and more curved than their modern counterparts. The shapes were often very broad belly and heavy, or very curved and slender, thus very light. Only the standard army issue were, and are, made of the same dimensions and measurements, in order to bring uniformity and tidiness to the unit; whereas local khukuris still continue to vary from one another, making it impossible to characterize or distinguish a particular khukuri from the rest. Moreover, since all khukuris are totally handmade, even the same type and version tend to differ a bit, leaving the impression of the habitual of the maker and his individuality."
I don't have permission to use any photos from any of these manufacturers (yet?), so you'll have to go to their sites to see the differences. Plus, I'm writing a lot here, and I'm too lazy to go searching for pics right now!
Traditional handles are typically East Indian Rosewood or Saatisal. Water buffalo horn was a common material, but there are restrictions on using that now. I believe that the last of the horn handles will be produced in the next year, then it will be gone.
The traditional support in the handle has 3 basic constructions. The rat tail tang and stick tang have a very long history, and are hot glued/epoxied into the grip. Since the early 1900's, the exposed and riveted flat full tang has become common. This is said to be due to heavy British influence.
The traditional handle is flared or bell shaped at the pommel, and has no forward guard or quillon. Again, you can see pics of them on these sites.
The modern khukuris used as tools in Nepal cover the entire range mentioned above, and are subject to no real restrictions, although they mainly stay within those specifications.
Although common khukuris have been made in all shapes, sizes, and weights over the centuries, the common fighting khukuri has been made famous by the Nepalese warriors, the Gurkhas, since the British/Nepalese War of 1814-1815. If we consider the 1800's to the present to be the era of the modern khukuri, the fighting khukuri has been of medium length, has a wide profile, and is relatively light. 10" to 14" and 400g to 850g seem to be the most common specifications. Although not the standard issue, combat sirupati are not uncommon.
I won't get into the sheaths too much, I want to focus primarily on blades and handles. Sheaths/scabbards are usually custom fitted individually for each khuk. 2 pieces of lightweight wood are hollowed out and glued together. Then they are wrapped in hide or leather, colored with shoe polish, and that's the end of the story.
Also, I don't want to get into the small utility knife and the sharpening/flint steel, called the Karda and Chakmak. Good sized ones, 4"+, are cool with me. Smaller ones are decorative and usually not even practical. Just my opinion. Although I've heard that the Nepalese themselves usually don't use these things. Enough about them. Order good ones if you like them.
So, that covers the basics of the traditional Khukuri. Tell me if I missed anything, this is just a first draft that I tossed up here to get things started.
Now, to the modern Western style of khukuri. I'll make this very simple. It's whatever doesn't fit into the category of traditional khuks.
As far as any manufacturers of khukuris, I'm going to give you a combination of what I and many others have discovered. In other words, who to buy from, and some quick details about these people. I'm going to be VERY OBJECTIVE here, and leave out my personal opinions. After EXTENSIVE research, I've found this all to be factual. Yes, and many other people have said what I'm telling you now.
You'll notice that I mentioned only 3 companies before? Well, that is because they are the only 3 that I could honestly recommend. They are also the favorite companies of ALL the people I know who own khuks. Any other company making khuks is at best simply substandard, and more likely run by a copycat or even a thief, to put it bluntly. They mimic the company name of KHHI, and steal the product names and designs of ALL 3 reputable companies. So there!
You might get lucky and get a great product from these others, but you're doing it at the expense of the ORIGINAL people who put a LOT of time and creative energy into designing and producing what are usually very fine products. Granted, there are QC issues with each of these 3 GOOD companies, but we see that with the katana makers as well. Just remember you're not dealing with an American or European company cranking out CNC machined perfection. Like the katana, these are all handmade by poor people in a 3rd world country. Unlike the katana, the Nepali don't have huge forges like they do in Longquan. OK?
Tora Blades:
The focus here is to provide historically accurate, authentic fighting Khukuris that are truly based on real khuks used by the British Gurkha Army and other Nepalese forces. There are 13 combat models listed on their site, ranging from 10.4" to 13.8" and 425g to 750g. Almost all of their khuks are traditionally styled with a stick tang. The Tora Mk2 kukri has a full tang wooden handle.
Himilayan Imports:
The focus here is on a traditionally styled but heavy khuk, mostly stick tang, but I think you can order anything you want in a full tang, riveted "Chiruwa" style. HI also makes at least 15 models that fall into the authentic lightweight fighting category, but out of 28 khuks listed on the main site, most are very heavy for their size and they are very proud of that! There are a few that even warn you to be fit and strong before you engage in hacking away with these bad boys!
NOTICE: HI measures their khuks in OVERALL length! NOT blade length!
KHHI:
The focus here is? Well, take your pick. Their website says they focus on "genuine, handmade, Nepalese Khukuris". All of that is true. I say they make everything you can imagine and more. Of the over 130 models on their site, at least a few dozen fit into the category of being authentic lightweight fighting khukuris. They have lots of traditional stick tang models, as well as full tang, riveted "Panawals" and "Sirupanas". They are very proud of their variety, and will create almost any custom khuk you can design. That's all I will say about KHHI.
OK, back to the point of this thread. All 3 of these manufacturers make traditional, authentic combat khuks, but Tora is the only one that isolates that as their focus. Some people swear by that company and won't own anything else. Others love the weight of the HI stuff, and they also have dedicated customers. Still others like the Western styled khuks from KHHI and wouldn't own a stick tang traditional handled khuk unless you gave it to them for free. (EVERYONE likes free stuff! LOL!)
And some of us like it all and wonder what all the fuss is about. :lol:
So, have at it. What is your preference? Do you have one? Explain what it is and why, give us all the positives of your perspective. Focus on informing the new person who will come by, or educating those of us who want to know more. Comparisons and contrasts are fine, but refrain from slamming the other guys or a different perspective. This is supposed to be fun.
And if you're new to this? Look around and do a lot of research. Then come back and ask some questions. I might not be around, but we have a group of people here that know enough about khuks to help you get going.
-------------------------------------------
Well, that's all for now. I'll be back later, I have stuff to do. Play nice, now!
Thanks ...
(Edited to get the danged links to work!) :oops:
(Finally got all the corrections/typos) :roll: :lol: