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Post by junon on Jun 15, 2013 4:48:33 GMT
IntroductionThis sword was first discussed around March 2012 by a fellow forumite in Chinese subforum ( viewtopic.php?f=35&t=9863). Apparently this is a new Hanwei product that is only available in Chinese market (or at least not available through CAS Hanwei). It's a saber model with wootz steel... This is the 2nd hanwei wootz steel sword, after the short lived Shaolin Wootz Han Jian model. Historical overviewThis is taken from Hanwei description: ( www.hanweibladecenter.com/khitan ... 9-prd1.htm) The Khitan were a nomadic Mongolic people that dominated northern China and the steppes beyond. They established the Liao dynasty through their skill in mounted warfare and their expertise in edged weapons. The wootz steel in our Khitan sabre is reminiscent of the ancient watered-steel blades used by the finest nomadic warriors. The sharp curve of the blade is evidence to the fast cavalry charges that ruled the Mongol steppe and eventually China itself. Our recreation features a horse theme throughout the hilt and scabbard. Deer antler provides an elegant and practical grip.Full DisclosureI bought this sword from a friend. The MSRP of this sword is $4095! However he is a reseller of Hanwei so I paid less than MSRP (but still retail price, I was told). However it does cost in the same Albion Museum line level though, so it's not cheap by any standard. This is not my most expensive sword, but pretty close to what I paid for my Brescia Spadona (brand new) - so you should have idea how much I spent on this one. Initial ImpressionsThe sword come in nice presentation box. So far this is the best box I have received from Hanwei (well, it's the most expensive Hanwei I have ever bought, so it's expected to be nice at least!). StatisticsDon't have time to take my tape, so I will copy what Hanwei said on the website: Length:88cm Blade: 65cm Handle: 17.5cm Weight: 875.5g HRC: 50-54 ComponentsThe blade:The blade is made from Wootz steel ; My knowledge in steel is still limited, so I will not describe it to much... but it supposed to be made from crucible steel if I'm not wrong and would have a 'waterly' pattern on it. The Handle:The grip is made from deer antler. The GuardScabbardHandling CharacteristicsThis is my first saber/scimitar... so I have no idea how it should feel. It's kind of short (25") so it does feel quick. Test CuttingNot tested ; only test on cutting paper; sharp enough to do it well. ConclusionsIt's pretty OK. I'm disapointed with the fit of the loose scabbard though. For something that cost that much, I would expect a better fit. Also the width can be made bigger in my opinion. In the end... would I buy it again? Not sure... I do have a wish for a good scimitar, and this is a pretty good one. But it's pretty expensive. If I have to pay MSRP, I would not buy it. There is no way this sword worth $4000! Pros- Wootz steel (not sure how correct to historical wootz, but it does look good!) - Nice grip - Light weight - beautiful blade! Cons- Scabbard fit need to be improved - Very expensive!
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Sean (Shadowhowler)
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Post by Sean (Shadowhowler) on Jun 15, 2013 5:54:43 GMT
For your first Saber/Scimitar you don't mess around huh? Surprised you wouldn't pick up a Windlass Scimitar or something along that line to see if you even like that style of sword before dropping Albion Bressca money on something.
Its an interesting weapon to be sure... but I don't see anything that would make me pay that much.
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Post by junon on Jun 15, 2013 6:59:48 GMT
Hi Sean, I was tempted several times to pick up Windlass Scimitar... Unfortunately the shipping cost & custom hassle really would increase the price significantly... so I decide to save up the money and get something better... I would spend at least couple hundreds of dollar for shipping and custom clearance, etc... (would be more than the windlass itself costs)... If I didn't bought this sword first, I would snap this one! www.kultofathena.com/product.asp ... o+Scimitar Too bad KoA posted this after I bought the wootz saber... if not, most likely I would go with Lundemo's kilij... and save some $$$ in the process...
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Post by William Swiger on Jun 15, 2013 7:01:10 GMT
It is a beautiful sword. Not to my liking for the money invested but that is because it is not my area of interest. I used to have a Windlass Scimitar and figured it was not my thing.
Congratulations!!
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Sean (Shadowhowler)
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No matter where you go, there you are.
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Post by Sean (Shadowhowler) on Jun 15, 2013 7:05:15 GMT
That Odin sword is pretty awesome looking... I've been very tempted by it, I'm surprised its still there. The last time there was an Odinblade for sale on KoA it lasted only a couple hours and 10 people tried to buy it. :lol:
I have a Cold Steel Shamshir, which is the same blade as the Windlass Scimitar but different fittings... and its actually quite a nice sword.
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Post by randomnobody on Jun 15, 2013 8:05:04 GMT
As much as I really want to like this sword, something just strikes me as "off" in the steel. It's just unattractive to me, personally.
The rest is very interesting, and a very nice overall presentation of a seldom-seen sword type. I thought I'd not like the excessive decoration, but it's clean and well executed, so it works. I just can't like the steel. Such a far cry from all the wootz I've been looking at in my recent antique hunts, looks more like someone just scratched in the patterns and dunked it in acid for the finish...but I'm just spoiled, I guess.
The important thing is that you like it, and you certainly seem to, so I'd say you did well. It's definitely something different that will surely stand out in your collection for many years to come.
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Post by stickem on Jun 15, 2013 11:26:49 GMT
First off, I always love it when a big forge does something different. By their nature, these sorts of pieces will really appeal to some people, but probably not the masses. About the horse theme: I have a friend who is in Mongolia working through the Peace Corps. Anyway, he says that to this day there are nomadic peoples living outside the cities and migrating. Thing is, they have this very important relationship with their horses. They ride the horse, use the dung to heat their yurt, eat the horse... you name it. The point being, American folks (and probably most people in most countries) have no idea what a Mongolian's relationship is like with his horse. In America, we have a bald eagle... there are some nesting at the lake I go visit when I get time actually... we have it on a quarter... and so on. Yet I'd venture to say most Americans have never even seen a live bald eagle up close and personal. Having a symbolic relationship is nothing like having an actual symbiotic relationship with an animal. So the horse fittings on this sword make sense when viewed in this context. They are pretty clean looking and I like 'em. Anyway, last year we went to this exhibition: naturalsciences.org/exhibits/special-exhibits/genghis-khanand they had sabers in it. Can't tell you how much energy I could feel coming from some of those weapons. Certainly many of them were sabers. Wish I had some pics to share of these pieces, but at the moment, I can't access where they are stored at the moment :roll: Re: wootz steel Here is an article which will fill you in a bit on what it is: Sci Amer - Damascusand I'll leave it up to you to decide how well Hanwei pulled off making it Highly recommend you play this loud to get you juiced up when you go out and play (hopefully on horseback) with your new toy:
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Post by Kilted Cossack on Jun 15, 2013 18:52:34 GMT
Now how cool is that? It's SUPER COOL!
Mongolia is my favorite out of all the places I've been, even more so than the rest of Central Asia. I mean, I'm kilted cossack because of my Scots origin, and because I could pass for a cossack, but otherwise I'd have been the kilted mongol (except I can't pass for Mongolian).
That Hanwei is about the pure distilled essence of prototypical saber, right there.
What's the point of balance?
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Post by Jussi Ekholm on Jun 15, 2013 19:38:42 GMT
Thanks for this review. I must say I have never heard of this sword before and it's very nice to see your pictures and thoughts on it.
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Post by justin520 on Sept 28, 2013 16:50:27 GMT
How is the handle secured on these? Also are these still available for purchase, possibly at lower price?
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Uhlan
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Post by Uhlan on Sept 28, 2013 17:12:44 GMT
And here is the cheap version, forge unknown:
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Post by johnwalter on Sept 28, 2013 17:18:03 GMT
DAMN!Now THATS a nice sword!
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Post by justin520 on Sept 28, 2013 18:21:05 GMT
Where is that cheaper one sold at? Also is it similar blade geometry?
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Uhlan
Member
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Post by Uhlan on Sept 28, 2013 18:48:51 GMT
Schwertshop.de: www.schwertshop.de/schwerter/mit ... tetes.html A while ago I posted about it on the forum, here: viewtopic.php?f=32&t=15141They have, last time I looked, 4 left in 2 separate listings under the same heading, but I think there are 2 normal steel ones and 2 damascus, this meaning industrial made damascus stock,probably etched. Info they give is sparse, no forge. That's why, when I did the above mentioned post, I did some research and via Google Images was able to sniff them out, ( kudos to Alibaba). Longuan made, sold in small quantity, like 4 or 5 wholesale, so, I think, directly marketed to the more enterprising webshops, trying something new, byond standard Windlass'es and the rest. They were at Schwertshop for at least 1.5 years. Schwertshop is trusted, more members than me deal with them, with excellent results. Also, compaired with most other Euro shops they are quite cheap, though sometimes a certain sword can be found cheaper at for instance SwordsandMore.de I am into old models and I found the Windlass German HaH at Kaiserstuhl.de for €199. Euroland can be a goldmine for digging up older models. Back to the horsehead sabre: I roam around looking for sword related stuff everywhere and I never once found a shop that sold these, so, maybe last chance to get one! Bickering ladies and wives be damned!
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Post by junon on Sept 29, 2013 0:03:23 GMT
hanwei put two rivet/'mekugi' on the handle...
I believe it's still available for purchase, but not from CAS Iberia yet... My understanding you need to get from hanwei directly (or its reseller - since hanwei dalian doesn't do retail sales).
My friend is a hanwei reseller and he knew I have been looking for this so he ordered one from hanwei for me.
I was told hanwei only produce a very limited number of wootz sword - the first one was the short lived shaolin jian... the fire destroyed most of the equipment and the khitan saber model was almost cancelled (it took a year for my friend to get it and there was only one available).
Of course things might have been better now for hanwei and I do hope they would expand the wootz lineup and lower the price as the sales volume picks up...
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Post by justin520 on Sept 29, 2013 4:56:32 GMT
What about that cheaper one dude pictured above? Though deer antler and doe skin would be super nice on a sword.
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Uhlan
Member
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Post by Uhlan on Sept 29, 2013 9:24:12 GMT
Dude says: Depends on where you live. Importing into the USA will cost you. Also and related to the above, it is not clear what you will get. Customising seems to be no problem as I am quite sure the grip is epoxied to the tang and it has a screw on pommel. Absence of a picture of the pommel showing the peen tells me all I want to know. Schwertshop does the peen picture only WHEN the pommel is peened and lets the buyer figure it out for the rest. They state though that it has a full tang and I trust them on that.
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Sept 29, 2013 20:43:13 GMT
More horse-heads: www.ebay.com/itm/Horse-head-shap ... 0871001443 Not having seen any confirmed Khitan/Qidan swords, I wonder at the historicity of this "Khitan" sword. Not very much, as it isn't very plausible. It's in a western style - this type of guard turns up relatively later (seems to be descended from Syrian sword guards), and never makes it all the way to the East. So not likely as an eastern Khitan/Qidan sword. More geographically plausible as a sword from Kara Khitai, but AFAIK the guard would be anachronistic. Perhaps the other (cheaper) horse-head swords would be more plausible, but I'd still call them fantasy swords rather than historical. Plausible as a sword from the same region (i.e., Transoxiana) in post-Mongol times. I've not seen a horse-head pommel like this on a relevant sword (only on more recent European/American swords), but the rest is OK. But not Khitan/Qidan. (Would be pleased to be shown otherwise by antiques or contemporary art, but I won't hold my breath waiting.)
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Uhlan
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Post by Uhlan on Sept 30, 2013 11:57:23 GMT
About the O.P. sword:/post/431236/thread
The price mentioned here is MSRP $1950.( Sun Mar 04, 2012, after the fire). Did the price go up to MSRP $ 4095 in such a short time? Wow!
To Timo: I Googled around a bit, but no luck. Only horseheads I keep seeing are those daggers and stuff, made in India, sold on Ebay. The only time I saw a horsehead sabre was in some Chinese epic movie about the invasion by the Yuan, so hardly evidence or fact.
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Post by Turok on Oct 2, 2013 6:05:32 GMT
Wow, I really like the look of this saber. How comfortable is the grip? I've handled a lot of expensive knives with stag horn but this is the first modern manufactured saber I've seen use it. Also they got some horse head daggers. I wonder how much the knives are. It would be cool if CASIberia had some in stock. In fact all their Chinese products are out of stock!
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