Another Narnia film another sword on my list.

oops, yup you're right. still though... one can't help but notice the similarities between pan and puck (and robin goodfellow). i wouldn't be suprised if they were connected in some ways

did I see you mention feist in there? i'm a big fan... probably read just about everything he's done and loved it. though to be honest after a certain point you can see the sort of D&D forumula running over and over (bound to happen after like 20 books...) i've got "Into a Dark Realm" now, just havn't gotten around to reading it yet what with school and all.

did you know he started writing about Midkemia after college D&D sessions... as a sort of history of the world that he and his friends had created in their game

anywho... i think you're being a bit harsh on pullman.... i'm really suprised you read him in a christian lit class... that doesn't seem to make any sense to me... and in that context i wouldn't be suprised if it wasn't presented positively. he is a good writer though, certainly on par with feist (at least). did you read the whole trilogy or stop after goldan compass?

oh and i think brenno's being a bit to hard on lewis too. i guess i wont go into arguing each point you mentioned.... maybe later if anyone still seems interested in the discussion... i will say though that we should remember that lewis, like everyone, was a product of the society he lived in (i think i just said something like that about myself in the brainstorming thread... hmm... not too profound... but there you have it). and yes, that society does seem a bit racist and sexist when looking back on it today (not that we're perfect or anything...)

So we've got 2 evil female characters... in case you hadn't noticed, there were evil male characters too, both the shallow ones(giants in Silver Chair), and the big mean evil scheming ones(The Calormen Prince that tries to invade Archenland) and King Miraz. There's only TWO genders to pick from when creating characters(and let's not let this degenerate into any XXY debates), so really, just because an author writes an evil woman into his book doesn't mean he hates women. If he made all the bad guys men, then people would analyze that into saying that Lewis was feminist and thought that men were evil.

As for Susan - yes, she turned her back on Narnia, but she was the weakest of the four children, and in the original draft, was a Boy. But it's not a knock on Women, it's showing that even people with a lot of faith, who believe very strongly in something, can still fall away. It's not that she discovered sex and so was evil or anything, it's that she chose vanity temporal pursuits over Faith in Aslan(Jesus).

Also note that Lucy, a woman, is arguably the character with the strongest faith and morals. And the story is "Mostly about Lucy". She also appears in the most books(along with Edmund). It's she who first sees Aslan in Prince Caspian and has to convince the others. It's she who is first nice to Eustace. And so forth. She's always been the strongest character, and I fail to see how someone who is sexist negatively towards women can write a woman as his strongest and most loved character...

Racism? Puddleglum wasn't a slave or anything. He was a simple rural gentleman with manners and not much education who realized his (mostly self imposed) lot in life.

yes, the calormens are darker skinned than narnians. But it's well known Christian(and non-Christian) symbolism that White = Purity, whereas Brown/Black/Darkness = Evil. Note that this is SYMBOLISM not RACISM. He wants to portray one group as dark and evil so he does so - not only in their skin color but in their personalities and culture as well. As for their civilization being so high and powerful and rich and so forth - that represents Pride, which 'Goeth Before the Fall'. It's an interesting contrast to how they really are - which is so depraved - it's how they cover it up to make themselves feel better because they actually get NO comfort from their god which is a God of evil. They're CALMORMENES, NOT MUSLIMS. They're MADE UP. Yes there are elements in their culture which are found in actual cultures in the real world, but they appear to be a mixture of several to come up with something new, but believable.

Any other sexist or racist subtext you want to talk about?

I don't much care for that sword.

see now you got the hall monitor mad at us ha ha

Dan that was apPAULing.
I'll catch you behind the lockers at recess. No firearms; Only swords, flails, axes, bludgeons.

Praise Aslan!

We aren't discussing religion here we are discussing symbolism and authors.

David: Actually Jordan just slipped in there, I was reading him lately and well yeah. I have read everything Feist has written and have only missed one or two of the books that Eddings has written.

The Calormenes are dark skinned not because he is trying to create a racist dichotomy but because that is what they were. How many other novels is it that the white fair skinned guys are the good guys and the black skinned guys are "teh evil"? There are many books and I am not sure they are trying to say anything other than hey we needed bad guys and these guys seem to fit the role. Have any of you read the amtrak wars? Are they making a racist statement with the bad guys in that?

Also when we read the golden compass in christian lit class it was presented from a literary point of view and not from a christian idea at all. I just think pullman was an idiot to call himself the anti lewis and I personally don't think that he is anywhere near as good a writer as Feist. The golden compass was a massive flop of a movie and in my opinion so are the books.

What U mean anything else? Like Football?

I do two of those. I'll leave you to guess which ones ;D (Said in jest)

As long as we're talking about authors we like and dislike:

I find Tolkein's works tiring. He is a master of the adjective, to a fault. He uses WAY too many words to describe WAY too little most of the time, and then WAY too few words to describe WAY too much other times.

Anyway, I have a theory that I'm too lazy to test, but it is that in his work - The Lord of the Rings - there are as many or more adjectives than any other type of word - even considering that all sentences must have at least one verb or noun.