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Post by kingrikoraru on May 10, 2013 5:26:37 GMT
There was a big fight about this between the owner of these 2 companies a while back that was quite furious
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Sean (Shadowhowler)
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Post by Sean (Shadowhowler) on May 10, 2013 5:43:48 GMT
^ What he said... To my knowledge, there is not anyone who has handled a current example of the Budo and a Ronin Elite in order to give an opinion. I myself have seen the two companies as making very different product... but some of the descriptions of recent swords by those who have handled them suggest that now they both might make some sword models that are more similar then was the case in the past. Still, one person handling and cutting with both would be informative.
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Post by kingrikoraru on May 10, 2013 5:59:18 GMT
I've handled both of them as I have a budo and had a ronin elite passed by me. They're both great swords. Budo is more cutting oriented while the elite is more of a traditional blade, though they're both beautiful. The only difference is that the fittings on the budo are light years ahead of the elite so in unless it's a blade on blade review/they're both in shirasaya, the budo's going to take my vote for a better VALUE OVERALL. Again, I don't want my comment to start a war on which blade is better as they're both very different but for the overall value of the blade, the budo is cheaper with better fittings. If you like a traditional blade, the elite is still a beautiful blade that also handles extremely well. Again, I don't want to get ino who has a better blade because they're both different in term of materials used, the way they are forged, and the purpose of the blade (I know swords are meant to cut but the budo has a cutting enhanced geometry with a very low niku and in ricky's word, it's not the average katana sharp)
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Post by SlayerofDarkness on May 10, 2013 6:37:21 GMT
That's kind of what I expected, Kingrikoraru. Both sound fantastic- I highly doubt anyone here would be displeased with either. Thanks very much for your informative opinion. Anyway, sorry for cracking the can and letting a few worms slither out... somebody grab a TSW and chop 'em up before they get away! :lol: -Slayer
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Post by adamthedrummer on May 10, 2013 11:09:36 GMT
I think its safe to say everybody has their favorites...being a noob who only handled a very few swords myself I respectfully bow out of this discussion. :-)
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Post by uchiha998 on May 10, 2013 14:30:43 GMT
I haven't handled either of these blades. So as far as handling goes I can't speak to that. However the value of the swords is something that I can offer an opinion on, due to the fact that I know a good bit about katana, though there are many forum members who have more knowledge, of course.
The Budo is a little cheaper and has better fittings. From the videos it seems that the Budo is the better cutter. Lets face it, The Budo seems to be one of the best cutters on the production market, maybe even the best.
Now the Ronin Elite is slightly more traditonal katana. Generally I like my blades to have a more traditonal look, but I don't need them to be perfect in historical accuracy because that generally reduces cutting performance. Or at least has the potential for more blade damage. The Ronin Elite is a laminated blade and I believe that this is something that probably raised production cost a good bit and therefore is something the consumer is paying for as well. Personally I am not a fan of lamination. It something I can't see(for the most part), something that doesn't seem to enhance the cutting performance or durability in a modern katana. If someone does know a reason why lamination does help improve cutting performance in a modern blade please do explain and enlighten me. I have no doubt that the Ronin Elite is fine cutter in its own right. But as good as the Budo? I somehow doubt that. However as a few people have already said what we really need is a side by side comparison of cutting tests. Preferably on a few different targets ranging from water bottles to tatami with a bamboo core.
It seems to me there is not much doubt that the Budo is the better value. Now when you get into $500 and above swords aesthetics plays a big part. For this price we all want something that looks amazing to us. When your talking about which of these 2 swords look nicer, well that is entirely a matter of opinion and it will certainly very from person to person. If the OP wants to get a Ronin Elite, then I say he has made a good choice.
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Post by Jussi Ekholm on May 10, 2013 21:45:22 GMT
First post by phone to the new forum, hopefully it works out well. Recommending swords to another person is a tricky thing.
Personally I like to buy used or slightly flawed swords. Why? Because they are much cheaper and usually still almost as good as new ones. And of course when it comes to production swords I'll try to save as much of my money as I can to antiques. Of course with my finances antique buys are a rare treat that I plan throughly. While saving for those I might grab a production sword if I see a good deal.
The above might be completely irrelevant but... As there was a talk about the 1095 Performance blade that I reviewed I think I should share the full story on it.
I like to do reviews on models which do not yet have reviews or which otherwise have already great intrest but 1 or so reviews. As I explained my buying habits there will be factory 2nds and otherwise damaged swords in my reviews, but I'll mention it and the flaws.
So I changed mails with Ricky and there was only 1 performance cutter left that had suguha hamon (that was a requirement for me) but it was flawed. Ricky told me he had other perfect examples with different hamon if I'd want one of those, but I was stubborn and wanted the flawed one and I asked about the flaws and Ricky told them. Ricky offered it at a great price and he even discounted it more after 2nd inspection. And he also held that blade at his workshop for a long time so I could get 2 swords in same package when 1095 Budgets came in. I would call that over the top service.
Now there was some felt on the nakago to ensure the tight tsuka fit, and there was that weird notch under the habaki. But this was not a 100% sword, and I was 100% satisfied for what I got for the price I paid. There aren't any other 1095 Performance reviews yet, but check out 2 Budo reviews by Bunny.
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Post by Jussi Ekholm on May 10, 2013 22:13:58 GMT
Long posts don't mix well with my phone, once I write over the typing box it gets super hard to scroll my text if I happen to misclick the cursor to wrong position. What I meant to include to last post about the flaws. Ricky informed me the one of the flaws was that the tsuka was cracked. Even though my initial feeling about the felt was a disappointment, now when I have had more time to think, I'm glad it was shimmed like that to ensure that nakago fit tightly. Without the felt there would have been play inside the already cracked tsuka. If you want you could check my and MK's reviews on Ronin Elites, of course both are their Scratch & Dent models, but good swords regardless of their miniature flaws. And of course if you have the chance to meet up with David and chat with him in person and alongside handle some Skyjiro swords, go and meet him. He can probably teach you a lot in face to face conversation and can point out things about the swords. And after you get to personally handle and inspect Skyjiro swords you'lo know
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2013 3:03:00 GMT
Sorry I have to do this. I was on you tube looking at the goldmountain forge video display for there high end katanas. And WOW. You can just see the attention to detail. I don't care what anyone says those blade look nice. I didn't say this to start anything. No debate. I haven seen a katana yet that looks like that beside dragonfly forge($20,000) katanas. Watch goldmountain on video. All the lighting shows the blade so much better. They look as good as a Howard Clark but I'm not saying they are. Of course I'm not gonna buy one. Can't afford it. I'm just waiting on either Ronin or to get back to me.
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Post by aussie-rabbit on May 11, 2013 6:51:27 GMT
Cable "damacus" blades have been made since the late 1800's -
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Post by Vue on May 11, 2013 7:32:06 GMT
Speaking of Dragonfly forge, I would happily take a piece from Michael Bell over a piece by David Goldberg any day. For the guys that don't know, Michael Bell was the one who taught Mr.Goldberg in sword making.
I don't know if it's just me but I was browsing through Goldmoutain's website looking at their high end pieces and it seems that none of those blades is made exclusively by Mr.Goldberg. The listing always states that it's designed by Mr.Goldberg and made with the assistant with other people, which doesn't mean much as those marketing statements are very vague. If you're familiar with Mr.Goldberg's old work then I don't see how any of these newer pieces could be made by him, Mr.Goldberg is a fine smith and if indeed these never pieces are made by him then the quality has dropped significantly.
IMO Skyjiro and Gold mountain is still way over price, I can understand that it is a business and profit must be made but use this kind of tactic is pretty undesirable in my book.
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Post by danmasamori on Oct 21, 2014 20:08:15 GMT
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Post by danmasamori on Oct 21, 2014 20:10:49 GMT
not quite sure what possessed me to reply to a post from May 2013.... :oops:
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Post by Robert in California on Oct 22, 2014 2:00:27 GMT
Hi, A few thoughts: 1. Just because a not well-known sword seller tries, however obviously, to give his business so publicity via employees, does not mean the swords are bad (or good or whatever). Just means the dealer wants more business...like any dealer. So no biggie there. 2. For full priced swords that are good...but kind of priced high...go Hanwei. For good swords at better prices, go Huawei. For budget swords and some better than budget go Wang-katana1980, Katana1980 and multiple others...they all try hard to deserve your business. 3. If the dealer is within driving range, I strongly encourage you to go in person and "try before you buy". The feel of a sword is very subjective. Go in person and buy in person if you like the sword. Your age, size, strength all are factors in how a sword feels in your hand. Hold and swing two and one handed (air cuts only!) everything you can. See what feels best to you. Hopefully among all the swords that feel "ok", there will be one that feels "good". But that one if you can and if it looks worth the money to you. Remember, dealers have to make profit to stay in business, so accept that. It is ok. If you like the sword. Nothing wrong with asking for a discount though. He can only say no. Orientals like to bargain, but not us Anglos. 2. re. ...the Budo is about $700 and a good sword. But in the months I have been on and off visiting the site, it is always out of stock. You could ask them when in stock. I have not. Because my funds are limited and I just bought another Huawei (and like it). Good luck, RinC
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Post by Robert in California on Oct 22, 2014 2:02:28 GMT
I replied because: 1. I am often late. 2. The coffee effect wore off hours ago and I am less than observant at the moment. (Oh bed, where art thou, oh bed?)
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Post by Kasey on Nov 19, 2014 10:58:12 GMT
No I don't own this samurai sword infact I am quite new to this also I don't think this is a quite popular sword (concluded while searching) also it looks quite an expensive sword.
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brifxr
Member
HI I'M NEW TO SBG. ANYBODY WANNA FILL ME IN ON HOW TO CONTACT A SELLER IF I SEE SOMETHING II LIKE?
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Post by brifxr on Oct 28, 2018 21:31:06 GMT
PLEASE ALLOW ME TO THROW IN MY TWO CENTS. FIRST OF ALL , I'M NO SWORD EXPERT, ESPECIALLY WHEN IT COMES TO THE JAPANESE STYLE SWORD. IN ADDITION TO BEING A COLLECTOR AND SWORD ENTHUSIAST, I'VE BEEN WORKING WITH METAL AND BEEN MAKING BLADES FOR ABOUT 25 YEARS . BEFORE I EVER ATTEMPTED TO MAKE A KATANA I BOUGHT AND READ EVERY BOOK I COULD FIND ON THE SUBJECT. AFTER A DECADE OF STRUGGLING, I FINALLY MANAGED TO CREATE A VERY INTERESTING BUNCH OF SCRAP METAL. I STILL ENJOY MAKING KNIVES AND OTHER BLADES, BUT TO MAKE A REALLY GOOD KATANA REQUIRES SKILL ,KNOWLEDGE, TENACITY, AND A COMMITMENT TO MASTERING SEVERAL MATERIAL AND TECHNIQUES. I DECIDED TO START BUYING AND COLLECTING JAPANESE STYLE SWORDS, INSTEAD OF MAKING THEM. I NOW OWN 5 HANWEI SWORDS THAT RANGE FROM A USED ORCHID, ALL THE WAY UP TO THE L6 BAINITE ONI KATANA. THESE SWORDS RANGE FROM $300 {USED}TO OVER $1000. EVERYHANWAI HAS A UNIQUE AND BEAUTIFUL THEME TO IT. THE SHINTO IS AN ORIENTAL DRAGON. THE BAMBOO MAT KATANA HAS A BAMBOO THEME{DUH} AND THE GOLDEN ORIOLE HAS, WELL YOU GET THE IDEA. I REALLY LOVE OWNING AND COLLECTING THE PAUL CHEN HANWEI SWORDS AND LOOK FORWARD TO GETTING MORE WHEN I CAN FIND THEM USED AT AREASONABLE PRICE. BUT....ANYONE WHO BUYS ONE AT FULL BLOWN MSRP HAS GOT WAY MORE MONEY THANI DO AND MAY BE REALLY DISSAPPOINTED. AS BEAUTIFUL AND UNIQUE AS EACH IS, SEVERAL OF MY HANWEI'S COULDN'T CUT BUTTER.WELL MAYBE BUTTER, BUT THEY FAILED MISERABLE TO SLICE PAPER. ALL I KEEP GETTING IS RIPS AND SNAGS, EVEN AFTER SEVERAL ATTEMPTS TO SHARPEN THEM. WHERE IS THIS ALL GOING YOU ASK? WELL JUST BECAUSE A DEALER IS ASKING A HEFTY PRICE DOESN'T MEAN YOU'RE GOING TO GET A GREAT PRODUCT....AND THAT COULD BE MEAN ANY PRODUCT{A CAR, STEREO OR DESIGNER JEANS.} I'VE ALWAYS FOUND THAT SEEING IS BELIEVING. NOW, ABOUT THE SKYJIRO KATANA YOU ASKED ABOUT. SEVERAL YEARS AGO, I SAW A USED SKYJIRO ON EBAY, AND THE PRICE WAS REALLY TEMPTING SO I TOOK A CHANCE AND BOUGHT IT. AFTER I GOT IT I RESEARCHED AND FOUND OUT IT WAS ONE OF THE LOWEST PRICED MODELS THEY MAKE. NOTHING FANCY AND RATHER PLAIN LOOKING, ESPECIALLY COMPAIRED TO MY SUPER FANCY BUTTER CUTTERS. BOY....CAN APPEARANCES BE DECEIVING. THIS THING MIGHT BE LOW END PRICE [$350] BUT EVEN IN USED CONDITION, IT CUTS LIKE A STRAIGHT RAZOR. I AM LOOKING AT GETTING SEVERAL MORE SKYJIRO'S IN THE FUTURE. I'VE BELONGED TO SBG FOR SEVERAL YEARS,BUT THIS IS MY FIRST POSTING. I WANTED TO SHARE WITH YOU MY EXPERIENCE IF IT HELPS ANYONE MAKE AN INFORMED PURCHESE. MY MAJOR GRIPE WITH THIS[AND OTHER BLOGS} IS WHEN PEOPLE RIDICULE A PARTICULAR SWORD, MAKER OR COMPANY, AND HAVE NEVER EVEN PURCHASED ONE OF THEIR PRODUCTS.AS I STATED AT THE BEGINNING OF THIS, I'M BY NO MEANS AN EXPERT, BUT ALL OF THE KATANAS I MENTIONED PREVIOUSLY I CURRENTLY OWN AND HAVE BEEN TESTED FOR SHARPNESS. LIKE I SAID, SEEING IS BELIEVING, AND I PERSONALLY THINK THE LOW END SKYJIRO OUT CUTS SOME OF MY HIGHER END HANWEI'S. DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH AND DRAW YOUR OWN CONCLUSIONS. YES, YOU MAY END UP BUYING A FEW DUDS{WE ALL DO}BUT YOU'LL BE MUCH WISER IN THE LONG RUN. LASTLY, I WOULD JUST LIKE TO END THIS WITH A WORD OF CAUTION AND TELL PEOPLE TO HAVE FUN, BUT ALWAYS BE MINDFUL THAT THESE CAN BE LETHAL WEAPONS AND THAT A MOMENTS CARELESSNESS COULD END IN SERIOUS INJURY OR DEATH,SO BE CAREFUL OUT THERE.... THANKS AND TALK TO YOU SOON SINCERELY BRIFXR
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Post by LastGodslayer on Oct 29, 2018 14:33:08 GMT
Look up Matthew's channel on YouTube. He makes an observation about the Skyjiros that is probably the reason why they generally cost 50% more than the competition: The flats are actually flat. This means there is a better level of fit and finish than other maker's blades in general. The problem is that they are not worth the 50% markup on that basis alone from a functional point of view. Its just that it appears to be a consistent feature of their blades.
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