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Post by Judosailor on Mar 8, 2013 20:22:46 GMT
Seriously? I was responding to several comments that have been such as, "Yep I agree that there are better options at the same price..." I'm curious to see some examples. And I'm not asking this as some kind of challenge, but am genuinely looking to expand my knowledge of swords in the $400-$500 price range.
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Post by Jussi Ekholm on Mar 8, 2013 21:08:10 GMT
Here are quotes from David Goldbergs website. So while Mr. Goldberg does not state the forge name, it is indeed Skyjiro. Kinzan3 is his eBay name, and David has Skyjiro swords for sale in eBay as well, along with Gold Mountain Forge products. I don't want to advertise but I strongly believe that TSW Batto is the best production sword in that price range in Europe. Same price as Skyjiro's Warrior. I've just kept it under the radar for my 5 cheap sword comparison review I'll be making fairly soon . I like mine very much, just haven't reviewed it yet as I want that people see multiple budget swords side by side and see their differences. There just ain't too much good sub 300€ production swords in Europe, and I believe that Skyjiros low end offerings are at least fairly good for the price. And offer a good option to those who want diversity and don't want or can't order from outside Europe. As there ain't too many good models you can get for 250€ in Europe, I think Skyjiros Warrior is fairly good offering. Samurai Sword Shops Zhui Feng katana might be good too but they start at 50€ more. And Paul Chen's Practical XL and old PPK can be had under 300€. If you know where to look a Raptor for 300€ is possible. WKC Practical is under 300€. Cheness Mokko is bit under 300€. So those are some competitor options in Europe that I can think of fast. Possibly only good sword that I'm aware of for 200€ is old PC Practical, at least I can't think any other under 200€ fast. Europe pricing might be bit confusing to US collectors, but as David Goldberg and Kult of Athena sell Skyjiro Warrior for 199$, is there really a lot better katana for 199$? Not even many eBayers can match that, possibly HuaWei? But I too am curious of good sub 200$ swords even in the US.
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Post by kingrikoraru on Mar 8, 2013 21:50:17 GMT
Sorry bout that, my sick brain is slow haha. Anyway, best of my knowledge, RK2 Would have the best fittings and blade at the 400-500 mark. It'll be hard to find any other sword with fittings just as nice until you jump to the 800-1k+. Only down side is it's not a folded blade but it's not likely you'll get a nice folded blade at that price.
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Post by LastGodslayer on Mar 8, 2013 22:34:46 GMT
You guys are kidding, right? Would you like me to compare "cheapest you can get"? I am just doing a stat comparison and going from the pictures... and excluding shipping from the price. Please note, the comparisons are just from the top of my head Sorry for the ensuing wall-of-text Ahem... Low end:kultofathena.com/images%5CTJ301_l.jpgHere we have a Skyjiro Ancient Iron Warrior. Basically a folded steel, through hardened blade, fake hamon (regardless of how "nice" it may be) with (what appear to be) ferrous fittings. Price? 329 USD + geometry looks sharp kultofathena.com/images%5CTJ301_6_l.jpg- tsuka shape is poor and squished www.nihonzashi.com/tjline/ancient/DSC_0694.jpgwww.nihonzashi.com/tjline/ancient/DSC_0698.jpg- tsuka seems to be off line with the blade kultofathena.com/images%5CTJ301_5_l.jpgCompared by specs: kultofathena.com/images%5CSS816_l.jpgMusashi Feudal Daimyo. Folded steel, differentially hardened blade, real hamon, non ferrous fittings. Price? 199 USD + flow looks good kultofathena.com/images%5CSS816_2_l.jpg+ tsuka has an actual shape and centered kultofathena.com/images%5CSS816_3_l.jpgkultofathena.com/images%5CSS816_5_l.jpg- geometry seems rounded kultofathena.com/images%5CSS816_6_l.jpgCompared by price: i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy10/huaweiswords/hw363/hw363_05.jpgHuaweiswords HANDMADE T10 FOLDED STEEL FUTASUJI-HI HISHI-GAMI YOKOTE SHINKEN KATANA (phew...). Folded steel, differentially hardened blade with ferrous fittings Price? 310 USD + geometry looks good i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy10/huaweiswords/hw363/hw363_06.jpg+ nice kissaki i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy10/huaweiswords/hw363/hw363_03.jpg- run of the mill tsuka i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy10/huaweiswords/hw363/hw363_08.jpgCompared in Europe: www.katana-samurai-sword.com/fuji-forge-shakudokatanafujiforgesamuraisword-p-667.html (you'll have to browse for pics). Monosteel, differentially hardened blade with ferrous fittings Price? 285 EURO + geometry looks decent - strange tsuka Mid end:kultofathena.com/images%5CTJ5_l.jpgA Skyjiro Emperor katana! Folded steel (2x as the Ancient Warrior), differentially hardened blade with silver plated (most likely non ferrous) fittings Price? 679 USD! + nice flow kultofathena.com/images%5CTJ5_2_l.jpg+ same level of geometric crispness as the Ancient Warrior katana kultofathena.com/images%5CTJ5_6_l.jpg+- tsuka is neither good nor bad kultofathena.com/images%5CTJ5_3_l.jpgComparison by specs: www.trueswords.com/images/prod/musashi_white_falcon_katana.jpgMusashi White Falcon Folded Elite. Folded steel, differentially hardened blade with non ferrous fittings Price? 199.99 USD + - its folded steel with a hamon www.trueswords.com/images/prod/folded_elite_without_bo_hi.jpg- soft geometry & kinda cheap looking all around www.trueswords.com/images/prod/musashi_falcon_katana_detail.jpgComparison by price: Hung Shing True Sharp 2013 Budo. Special tamahagane-like alloy, differentially hardened blade with ferrous fittings. Do you really need me to cover this bit? Price? 685 USD Compared in Europe: Nope, not a single sword I can remember with these specs for less than 530 EURO High end:www.skyjiroforge.com/bmz_cache/7/739c725f4bd455c66c0c11a6c3002167.image.714x481.jpgSkyjiro Kokoro. Oroshigane (yep, that is actually the correct term for this) blade, differentially hardened blade with non ferrous fittings Price? 3347 USD + original tsukamaki & fittings! www.skyjiroforge.com/bmz_cache/d/d857de62ecf288e28e4c48de7e61f5ad.image.714x481.jpg+ nice geometry but not as crisp as the others www.skyjiroforge.com/bmz_cache/8/8a02b964b754efdbc09c1fe3cb89b62d.image.714x481.jpg- the polish on the blade seems waaay too rough www.skyjiroforge.com/bmz_cache/2/20c38b544f7590661fa351b96548e1a2.image.714x481.jpgComparison, by price, specs AND in Europe: www.thesamuraiworkshop.com/product_images/55/6f694363d48e95994f40a28f3b074cfe.jpgKaneie (through The Samurai Workshop) Moon Light katana. "Tamahagane" blade, differentially hardened blade with ferrous & precious metal fittings + just look at it. geometry, polish, shape, tsuka... www.thesamuraiworkshop.com/EN/catalogue/swords/tamahagane-collection/tamahagane-moon-light/shop_mode=product_detail&product_id=55Price? 2682 EURO or under 3500 USD In summation: Its not like Skyjiro doesn't have a product, but from a budget point of view there are usually much cheaper option for the same spec, or better spec for the price. We NEED a review of Skyjiro's blades to see if the choice can be justified by build quality, balance or any other feature that cannot be easily observed from picture.
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Post by Judosailor on Mar 8, 2013 23:16:21 GMT
KingHaha. I totally thought you were yanking my chain there for a minute. Thanks for the suggestion.
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Post by Judosailor on Mar 8, 2013 23:24:07 GMT
Wow, Lastgod. Thanks for all the work you put into that post, it is appreciated.
I mean, I have my opinion on some of the comparisons that you posted, but my intent is not to argue. For the sake of discussion I'll just say that, to me, the Musashi Daimyo looks like a $200 sword, and the Skyjiro doesn't. It looks much nicer, imo. I thought the Huawei comapred nicely, though. Beautiful sword.
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Post by LastGodslayer on Mar 8, 2013 23:37:50 GMT
No Judosailor, do argue. I see what you are saying about the musashi, but I was just going for the specs. The skyjiro, in my opinion, doesn't look like a 300+ blade either. TH, fake hamon and off axis tsuka, place it far below the Huawei.
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Post by kingrikoraru on Mar 9, 2013 0:05:55 GMT
Yea it's fine I'm just really really sick today for some reason. Pounding headaches and stuffed everything. Anyway I'll try make this post makes sense. You could also try for a bamboo mat at around 600. That and the shinto are perhaps some of Hanwei's best mid range piece. The thing with skyjiro that I have a problem with is their marketing strategy and product description. Sure it could be a decent sword, but the way they advertise here along with their "secret techniques" and Skyjiro's -insert object or verb's name here- made it seem really fishy. Is their Skyjiro's bronze and Skyjiro's superior polishing technique really that great? When they are putting it that way, they are making it sound like they have their own secrets to doing things. You hear things like Hanwei's Swedish powdered steel and HSW-1/2, which mean it's their proprietary, special steel only found in their swords. This mean Skyjiro's polishing techniques must be different than other forges' polishing methods right? (Also you don't hear Hanwei's (Or most other trustworthy brand) superior polishing technique or any or any other gimmicks like that because they don't need to use that to sell their product since the product speaks for itself). It's always a bit suspicious if a company claim that what they do is special from the rest. Oh and then there's this little gem: SkyJiro Forge's Special Proprietary Hamon (SF's Secret Ancient Hardening Method ) Like...really....You don't yell out secret and ancient in the same phrase when describing a method of doing something unless it's a gimmick for sale. Just their entire description of a sword screams fishy. Their price list made very little sense to me because this www.skyjiroforge.com/takachigai- ... s-p-9.html , is less expensive than www.skyjiroforge.com/hotategai-scallop-p-14.html , which made no sense because shouldn't their "super secret ancient hamon method" cost more? And look at these comparisson for those 2 Tsuka Ito/Sageo: Genuine Japanese man made silk Tsuka Ito/Sageo: Man made Japanese Silk 2s Mekugi: Aged Bamboo Wood 2x Mekugi: SkyJiro Forge’s Bamboo Wood Besides these the 2 are almost exactly alike in other specs, so in theory the only difference is the way they achieved that hamon, in which case their "ancient secret method" should've cost more. Not to mention the cheaper one uses: Saya(Scabbard): premium grade wood & lacquer with genuine Water Buffalo-Horn fittings while the more expensive one use, what seems to be lesser grade fittings? Saya(Scabbard): Genuine Water Buffalo-Horn Scabbard So in the end, it seems like they are throwing up every words related to a katana's description to justify its price and why people should buy it...If their product is that good in the first place, their name would be much bigger around the sword forums and searching them up would not bring up their various...underhand?....tactics to advertise on this forum. This is not from looking at the pictures, but from the way they describe their product which just turns me away. Picture wise, it looks decent to maybe good but compared to...say an 1095 Beater (their 200-300 dollars sword I believe) it's below in quality imo. Even this musashi www.musashiswords.com/shop/produ ... =34&page=1 looks just about as good as their 400-700 range swords. And let's not forget munetoshi's sword which also looks just as good great, if not better and is at the very least cheaper imo: www.swordnarmory.com/4-000-Layer ... 3301rd.htm ($330) www.swordnarmory.com/Munetoshi-H ... h-8803.htm ($450) www.swordnarmory.com/Munetoshi-H ... h-8805.htm ($400) www.swordnarmory.com/Munetoshi-K ... h-7201.htm ($300) And these can still compete with their 750 katana. When you take another competitor from that price range, namely a bamboo mat from hanwei or budo, there's no comparisons.
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Post by Jussi Ekholm on Mar 9, 2013 14:37:39 GMT
Well I have to agree with you Godslayer, however as the Warrior is the only offering from Skyjiro that I might consider buying (or did maybe consider before I went to their website and fully read it's contents) I think at 199$ or 249€ it would be fairly good buy. And I was talking about the Warrior model all the time when I made my statements about it being worth the price. When I look at production models I mostly look sub 500$ swords, as I don't want make big investments on them. Being a nihonto collector I can't wrap my head around why someone would invest 3000+$ on a Skyjiro etc. as you are getting in to authentic sword range. But people collect various things. But by looking at pics alone, I don't see any of their 300$+ models as something I would personally buy, but I know that people have different tastes. Then on to possible explanations to things on their site, I've made this all up and could be totally wrong with this. I think that: Skyjiro Forge's secret ancient method = oil quench and traditional Japanese method = water quench. Genuine Japanese man made silk = Chinese silk and Premium Skyjiro Forge Japanese Pure Silk = Japanese silk Genuine Water buffalo horn = Some horn parts and Premium Water Buffalo Horn = Water Buffalo Horn So I believe that their classification on things goes like this, Japanese made -> Genuine Japanese made -> Premium Japanese made, and in relation they mean churned out at Chinese shop -> higher quality stuff made at Chinese shop -> authentic Japanese stuff. In reality on cheap production swords it doesn't matter even the slightest if some parts are made in China, Finland, Russia etc. When it's honestly told and the part is of decent quality. Anyone else noticed the funny thing that Skyjiro Forge's website has a non-working button for Japanese translation of the site On their articles pages, the articles/pictures about polishing are ripped off from Moses Becerra and John de Mesa + wikipedia. Then I took a look on Skyjiro's new online forum where the admin tries to constantly fish reviews of their swords, and reviews on Skyjiro vs. other manufacturer. I find that bit odd, surely someone will review the sword on their own will if he wants to. And after reading some of the stuff that has happened with them in here before, I am very disappointed on their behaviour on the Internet. After spending a good amount of time on their website today, I do not approve their business methods, and most likely will never do business with them. So I've given them warm welcome at least in 2 or 3 threads where I have been open minded about Skyjiro. As these threads have never gotten anywhere, I think the only way that Skyjiro can convince people of this forum is real honesty like Vue said earlier. But guess after everything I've seen and read of them I'll join on the barricades too... Guess the first thing that can help Skyjiro is when SwordFan receives his sword and we see an unbiased review of one of their products.
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Post by LastGodslayer on Mar 9, 2013 14:56:38 GMT
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Post by aussie-rabbit on Mar 10, 2013 4:49:46 GMT
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Post by Unit731 on Mar 10, 2013 13:55:55 GMT
You know, if you want your reviews/advertisements to look more genuine, you shouldn't make them look like advertisements. You know, with the big, bold, attention grabbing, multi-colored lettering. Or maybe you guys should hire guys who know how to make fake reviews for you.
Keep in mind you guys are entirely obvious. NO ONE reviews swords like you just have.
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Post by LastGodslayer on Mar 10, 2013 14:07:10 GMT
Not sure I'm with you on the ebay kats as there is something I just don't like which are the fittings and tsuka. For that investment, I recommend going custom at Sinosword. Totally agree with the .
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Post by Jussi Ekholm on Mar 10, 2013 14:44:44 GMT
Angelo I agree with you that Jeffreys Batto line is amazing. I love mine, and can't wait to cut with it. Black on black goodness (don't know why my pic came out so blurry?). Like I said above, I think it's the best 250€ katana in Europe. And their feel is pretty unique to any other production sword I've handled. I don't know about Fuji Forge, I have never seen their blades in person, but they might be ok. Thanks for noting out the Feilong Swords, it's sister site of Dave's right? I looked their models at Samurai Sword Shop and I like them too. I agree on too, some of the best price vs. quality swords I've seen. It's funny how Skyjiro threads always turn out as chatter about other makers, but I don't mind chatting about swords.
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Post by LastGodslayer on Mar 10, 2013 15:15:52 GMT
Hehe... I already knew you had one :lol:
Yeah, feilongswords is Dave's new project. I think that Jeffrey and Dave have some of the best options for European customers, and both have a pretty clear view on what they want to bring to the market. I'd love to see here in Europe (so no import taxes). Lots of money to be made over here hint hint...
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Marc
Member
Senior Forumite
Posts: 3,229
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Post by Marc on Mar 11, 2013 0:10:14 GMT
At that point, I don't know if I really ad to the topic, but I have meet Mr Goldberg in Montreal last summer. I hadn't the time to speak with him for hours, but he made clear that he was in a business relation with Skijiro. At the moment I had'nt read anything about Skijiro. Mr Goldberg had with him a couple of sword to sell, and since I'm not really interested in "low" end katanas, I didn't pay to much attention to the Skijiros. I must ad Mr Goldberg was really a nice guy.
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Post by LastGodslayer on Mar 11, 2013 0:39:34 GMT
I was gonna say something but I'm not. Instead I'll say this: Times are tough.
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Post by aussie-rabbit on Mar 11, 2013 6:15:42 GMT
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Post by Vue on Mar 11, 2013 8:13:10 GMT
Yeah I agree times are tough now but quite a few years ago gold mountain forge was remounting Chinese made blades but seems to claim that they were made by Mr.Goldberg himself. Questions was raised then but never came to a conclusion and in light of this new information, it's safe to assume that those old questions have been answered.....for better or worse you decide.
Yep that's them Aussie, pretty nice stuff there and they ship directly from China to Oz so us Australian do benefit from much cheaper shipping rates.
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Post by Judosailor on Mar 11, 2013 11:46:28 GMT
Well, it appears it has already been confirmed, but Mr Goldberg did respond to my email. It was a nice enough response that I don't feel posting the whole thing would be appropriate. But suffice it to say that he is working with them and believes in their product. So despite the fake reviews they post in forums, at least that much of their advertizing is correct.
I also contacted Skyjiro, because I am interested in their Hanabira Katana. They list it as having their "proprietary hamon" and I wanted to know if that meant the blade is differentially hardened. They said it is differentially hardened through their proprietary technique. So, I may be picking one up some time in the near future. If I do, I will post full text and video reviews with lots of pics.
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