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Post by Daishikaze on Nov 19, 2012 16:56:24 GMT
I'm currently having an Octahedral Sanmai(T10 core steel, 150 folded outer layers) clay tempered Jun zi Jian made by Sinoswords. I went into the deal knowing full well what I wanted and was very specific about everything, and I think that is a major factor, take all the guess work out of it for them, and they'll do you right, but if you are too vague about certain details you might be left disappointed in the end.
However, I believe that if you are not satisfied with the effort the show you in the final pictures, They will make it again and try harder to meet your standards. as far as I know, they don't charge extra for that, you paid for a sword and until they deliver it, you don't pay one cent more unless you want them do change it to be more complex. I would also suggest to anyone thinking of ordering, Tell them to take their time and be extra careful. Waiting longer won't kill you and I think you'll be well rewarded for your patience.
Mak Laoshi, if you are thinking of having them make one with symbols and signs, give them visual references of how they SHOULD look, and stress that they must be exactly as pictured.
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Post by MakChingYuen on Nov 19, 2012 16:56:52 GMT
It's actually 2 hung gar sifu I talked to who also say the same fact and no, it is not what you were thinking, the chi doesn't flow to the finger... you got me wrong there. It's the way your finger is standing up during that position and so it pulls a meridian into action. It's not chi going to the finger, it's chi going from the lung meridian to the darn teen. This is clearly something in iron wire form as well. I doubt you will disagree with iron wire is a chi kung form or internal training form. So.. whatever you think is making sense for you, go ahead and use that but then I am just sharing what I heard in the past from 2 hung gar sifu I talked and learned from who share the same knowledge as well. One of them say his sect is kinda different and he use 2 fingers instead of one to push the chi flow differently which as a result ending with better internal training. After talking to them I was in doubt like you now, and so I did it myself in their way and tried it out for awhile, it worked, and it does show effect and results, now what is right or wrong really doesn't matter, what matter here is the results is there and so I can't say these 2 masters are wrong. I did not say you are wrong either because I know the same thing before as what you said, which is very common and well known fact, it isn't a secret at all.
Also, I am not a hung gar representative or anything and I am not a hung gar master either. I ain't even into hung gar nowadays, so... whatever. haha... But if everybody need to be a master in that thing to speak, then we all must shut up because we mostly don't even know how to make a sword ourselves! LOL!
I offered my heard-knowledge and so others can choose what they want to listen or accept or whatever, not debating anything here.
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Post by MakChingYuen on Nov 19, 2012 17:00:04 GMT
Thanks! Where is the website of this forge anyway? I am still confused about who they are and where to see some samples they made?
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Post by Nox on Nov 19, 2012 17:06:55 GMT
Sounds like it's going to be a nice blade, what did you choose in regards to fittings? I had a pretty good experience with sinosword, they were very friendly and made sure the sword was how i wanted it, even though it was not my own custom idea, but rather a similar jian to one that an other forum member who goes by the name (Bushido) designed. viewtopic.php?f=6&t=11240viewtopic.php?f=35&t=12690here is the link to the one I got from them, along with a Hung shing Jian. and a pic of the sinosword Jian (left) jade lion and, Hung shing Jian.
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Post by MakChingYuen on Nov 19, 2012 17:11:42 GMT
Hey, I just looked at the link above and "dadaochen" is the one making that sword? Very nice sword man! Good work! Wow, how much is that going to cost? Also, do you have more close ups of that sword? and how is the scabbard like? I hope more swords like that are out the market, they are so attractive!
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Post by Daishikaze on Nov 19, 2012 17:22:58 GMT
I chose the Jun Zi Jian / Gentleman Sword fittings, I think its going to come out very nicely, I told them to take their time and be very careful, so I imagine it will be a few months before I see the finished product, but I think they will do a great job.
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Post by Nox on Nov 19, 2012 17:25:13 GMT
I think he has a forge make them? not really sure, maybe he can comment on that, but the sharpest blades I own are Hung shing blades.
which sword did you want to see more of? the scabbard from the sinosword jian is completely destroyed, and some of the fittings fell off the Hung shing scabbard. (I'm a bit rough with my swords), but hey thats what training outside everyday in the summer does I guess.
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Post by MakChingYuen on Nov 19, 2012 17:36:00 GMT
I want to see the Hung Shing jian, that one is sexy, especially the fittings! The jade lion is still sexy in the photo and I don't really like the left one as it's kinda too plain looking. Would you be able to show me abit more of the hung shing jian? and how much / how long did it cost you to get it?
The Hung shing jian handle.. is that something you mod yourself with the red and black stuff? seems different from the photo in the link you posted though. I like the red cord wrap! Looks like x-mas with the jade lion!
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Post by stickem on Nov 19, 2012 17:40:43 GMT
Mak ~
Just to be clear, I'm not angry at you nor have I been.
The thing is, I don't really value the opinion of any one on the internet regarding Bruce Lee or kung fu enough to actually get bent out of shape about it. The point being, I have my own experiences and am quite comfortable with their validity. So I don't need you or anyone else on the internet to affirm this for me.
The thing is, Bruce Lee called his system of movements and techniques "Jun Fan Gung Fu." The point being, this is what he called it. This makes it presumptuous of you or anyone else to go around calling it "not kung fu." Same thing with the Wing Chun or insert name of style here.
My teacher calls it "Wing Chun Kung Fu." So it is presumptuous of you or anyone else to call it something else. Presumptuous because you, having never studied with my teachers, think you know what it is all about better than the people actually doing it. This is rude, and also untrue.
For instance, I don't agree with everything you say about Daoism, but that's OK. I'm not going to publicly come out and say "Mak is not a Daoist" because we do not agree exactly on every single point you have made about the subject. You are a Daoist if you say you are. It's not up to me to say what you are; that would be a great presumption on my part to tell you who you are and what you are doing.
My understanding is that the term "kung fu" means to have a certain amount of skill due to putting a great amount of time and energy into something. The Wikipedia link is simply a poke at Kuya because he's used that one before :lol: Again, I don't need you or anyone else to explain it to me or back me up with links and references. I already have my own experience for this...
So for example, I worked with a Chinese neurosurgeon who could do brain surgery on folks using acupuncture as anesthesia. Apparently many types of brain surgery go better if the patient is actually awake during the procedure so the surgeon can get feedback on the parts of the brain he is working with. Anyway, we said, "Dr. Yu has kung fu." meaning he was very skilled with his hands.
Another Chinese fellow worked in a lab at the same facility. He could warm the palms of his hands up by thinking about it, and actually make them sweat by conscious thought. Basically he had some voluntary control over what most people would call our "involuntary nervous system." So we said this Dr. "had kung fu" as well.
The point being neither one of these doctors was doing any fighting, but they had great skill. The point being, they were both Chinese, and referred to each other as having "kung fu" though neither did any fighting.
So Mak, when you go around saying "Bruce Lee doesn't have kung fu." I reply that you full of $h!+ because my understanding is to "have kung fu" means to have great skill because of all the time and energy you have spent training. This understanding of the word "kung fu" and its meaning comes to me from the various Chinese people I have had experience with during my life. So based on this experience, the insult is pretty clear to me, though you may or not have intended it this way; again I can't speak for your intentions because only you know what these are.
So no worries. I'm not actually upset at all, just pointing out the obvious to anyone who knows the difference.
The thing is, Mak, if you believe that your specific take on everything is the only right one to have, you are fooling yourself. I am American, but I don't speak for everything in America, for Christians, for Republicans or Democrats or anything else. I speak for me.
Again, it may be unintentional, but the things you write here seem narrow-minded, as if you speak for all things Chinese or all things Taoist or whatever, and that every other view point is somehow wrong.
Case in point, you call me "a monkey" because I don't just nod my head in agreement with every thing you say, Mak.
Again, I don't actually care what your opinion of me or my teachers is very much, because I already know who and what I am. However, there were points that needed to be made because not everyone knows these things and might just accept everything said here as gospel. It isn't.
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Post by MakChingYuen on Nov 19, 2012 17:51:46 GMT
(didn't quote everything cuz it's too long) I said already, no matter you read or not, or you understand or not. This topic is OVER already. Do you want to get into it again and try to be like you have not said a thing? Please, drop it or leave it. I am NOT replying back after this one just to clarify I am not ignoring you but I am ignoring this TOPIC we are on before. I did not say Bruce Lee have not kungfu, I said what Bruce Lee did is not kungfu. It's a martial art, or combat art. You read wrong, interpret wrong and you are STILL so full of yourself to think I am narrow minded. I don't mind, but you can say and think all you want. I am not your master and I don't have the responsibility to teach anything or give you a lecture too. What I know is history, and what you know is what your master told you. If you are still continuing to debate anything, I am not going to reply to you in this thread unless it's sword related. Please, drop it or leave it, stop coming back and try to start a fire again. You said you were not upset but your words proof you are already. Don't be hypocrite man, be a man, if you were fired up, why not admit it anyway? I did admit I was very fired up at you the monkey head before, so? I dropped my thing already and get back to swords. I do believe we still have the same common topic which is the love of blades and swords. If you can't get along with me in your "kungfu thing", sure, let's get back on blades and we can talk about swords. It's okay, we are not here to get married or anything, we don't need to be 100% matching couples, right? By the way, since you mentioned my Daoism/Taoism, I am up for any challenges when I open my temple, and many Taoist had came for challenge as well. If you don't know what I mean, then I can't help, but basically in the world of Taoism, it's not like what you think and see most of the time in the west. It's NOT about Tao Te Ching. Anyway, drop this topic since we are not talking about Taoism anyway. Back to swords, okay?
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Post by Nox on Nov 19, 2012 17:58:41 GMT
I put that cord wrap on it for a while so it was softer on the hands, the rayskin can be kinda rough, I wanted to eventually wrap it in black leather cord. The Sinosword Jian looked alot better when I first got it, but I used it as my beater sword, the hungshing Jian I only used a few times to cut some bottles, unfortunately I have to sell it to get money for my medical bills it's already listed in the classifieds. just a note, the blade on the hung shing Jian is pretty much twice as thick as the jade lion.
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Post by MakChingYuen on Nov 19, 2012 18:07:38 GMT
Very cool! TWICE as thick? that's a good blade1 Is it over 3lb in weight? I have a cold moon sword here which is very thick bladed and I love the weight of it! Is yours heavy like that?
Man.. you paid a fortune for these swords and you use them like a cutter! I feel pain for the blades.. hahaha! I hardly want to cut and smack with my jade lion man.. hahaha.. Lions are supposed to be petted well with care! ~~
I never know rayskin is rough though, the jade lion's scabbard is so smooth, maybe it's the polish job? Can you sand that down with sandpaper?
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Post by MakChingYuen on Nov 19, 2012 18:46:46 GMT
Now it's like a tai chi master saying they don't do "chi' stuff and it's all physics and balance and so on. I know what it's like but then really, different master explain things differently. I don't say you are wrong because I had heard how you explained it all my life with different people saying it. But then, chi is NOT what you said. It doesn't really require meditation and clarity at all. Our body live on chi and with chi, it's there no matter you cultivate it or not. When you use what you call "dynamic tension" which isn't even a word in Chinese, chi will be drawn to the spot. That's what happen in reality, not what you say but it is what happen really. No matter you accept it or not, it's there. Chi is flow and guided by your intention and your mind, it's only the matter of is your chi concentrated enough to do damage or it's loose and sloppy so you are using your physical power instead and chi is just there. But yeah, if you put a camera that can capture chi flow.. it's really when a person throw a punch, the IS chi involved and it's only the matter of how much, how condense it is. So in a way, you are right about hung gar's dynamic tension but chi is also there even you don't say it is. When you concentrate on a muscle, chi is there too. That's chi kung knowledge 101, not something new.
Noi Gung and Noi Ging is not the same thing, agreed, but they are related and noi-hay (nei chi) is also related as well, you cannot separate them as they are already part of you. It's like saying you are just kicking your foot but your toes aren't kicking, too weird sounding man.
I guess it's how the master explain it to the student only.. I had heard tai chi master saying tai chi is not chi kung, it's physics and push hands is all only about balance, etc,. Same to hung gar, and even mantis..etc,. Not something new already for my ears.
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Post by Nox on Nov 19, 2012 18:50:55 GMT
Rayskin is actually very rough and bumpy and coarse. the rayskin on he jade lion scabbard is coated with something I think, becasue it's as smooth as plastic, though the rough rayskin is good for grip and wrapping cord, which is why most katana have rayskin wrapped around the tsuka and then the cord which sticks well to the rayskin. I know the sword is atleast 2.5 lbs, and is a brutal cutter, I was not afraid to cut with it, and other than some slight discoloration from stabbing a soap bottle the steel is fine. the jade lion on the other hand...I tried to keep safe and barely cut anything and it still chipped :? I tried to capture the thickness of the blades in comparison.
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Post by MakChingYuen on Nov 19, 2012 18:59:31 GMT
Dang, that Hung Shing is pretty! I love the inside of the guard how it is constructed, very sturdy and secure! I think I will think about that when my budget is up again! haha! This one is damn good and thick for anything like zombies chopping, haha! Oh man, you must love it so much..
For the jade lion, actually I found the problem with the blade and it cut better now, had some abuse with it and still going good without chipping. The problem is the edge sharpening was not done good and the guard is kinda loosen up, so when you chop, the blade will A) not cut well cuz of the edge have a blur there.. and B) the blade wobbles and shake or vibrate cuz the guard moved a tiny bit.. dang..! bad construction! I took some JB weld and weld the blade to the guard inside that little space and now it is NOT moving no matter what you do.. and I refine the edge again with sandpaper which made the edge flawless and have no more silly blurs.. now it's cutting 100% good. I just chopped with it VS my computer CPU case box and it hit some hard nails at the corners too and did not chip, much better and I am gaining my trust with it again!
I think CS really mean what they wrote - it's a scholar sword!
In another word - don't mean for use much, it's just for cutting paper and books... LOL!
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Post by MakChingYuen on Nov 19, 2012 19:27:58 GMT
Great, a happy ending, haha... chi kung is like everyday eating vegetables for me as well. maybe I sort of forget how hard it was at the beginning. my bad... I am actually into chi kung more than kungfu cuz I do kungfu mainly for health purpose nowadays, it's really amazing to see the results! I got a poisoned leg and disabled in 2009 which I cured with my kungfu and chi kung without any medicine, that's why I kept going forward! Man.. this is fun! Btw, I love that Hung Shing sword you made, hope you can get your site more nice photos soon then I can haunt your website more later on and start dripping water from my mouth! Argh.. that HS sword is too good and now it made me like a dumb@ss to purchase the CS gim instead, haha! but well, owning a CS basic GIm was something in my mind a long time ago, so just something need to be done, but I wish I bought the old version that is abit heavier instead!
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Post by stickem on Nov 19, 2012 20:09:23 GMT
Mak ~ No worries. We certainly don't need to agree on everything 100%. The world would be a very boring place if we did. So I have a wife and certainly don't need you to be another one :lol: As I suggested at the beginning of this thread and another one you started on the butterfly swords, it is better to not get into the politics of martial arts styles and systems or have a religious discussion. Every one's cup of tea is different in these areas. So I stayed out of it for the most part until the subject of what I specifically practice came up, and so I thought it needed clarification since I have experience in this specific area others here do not. I wish you well in your practice. As the Dog Bros. say, all that matters is we are friends at the end of the day. Back to discussing swords. Carry on
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Post by MakChingYuen on Nov 19, 2012 23:39:19 GMT
Yup! let's get back to swords! My GIM review brewing up~
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2012 0:29:01 GMT
Daishikaze. thanks, that's great to know, sounds like Sinoswords are really making an effort to produce good swords! When it comes to custom designed Chinese swords, Sinoswords seems to be the place to go.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2012 0:55:49 GMT
Mak and dadaochen, it might be common everyday stuff for you guys, but the information you are sharing is something new to many of us who weren't brought up in Chinese culture. For what its worth, it sounds like you are both talking about exactly the same thing using two different types of explanations from two different world views/perspectives, a bit like how we westerners explain how acupuncture works compared to how it is explained traditionally... Either way, it's all very interesting to read.
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