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Post by MakChingYuen on Nov 17, 2012 20:38:33 GMT
Right! European swords are heavy and can't cut, that is one thing even Chinese (most of them) think.. and they say yeah your sharp one is a modern reproduction.. I am like WTF?! Okay now there are youtubers who release some clips with antiques euro swords that cut like a katana.. hahahaha! They go speechless..
If you watch Jet Li's sword fight, people think he is the greatest sword fighter with Chinese swords.. dang, if you read about him, all he does is WUSHU! The crap that no trad. martial artist will like! He is an actor man, of course things LOOK very good! But in his movies, he favor all the filmsy Chinese swords, oh well, who is right? Of course him! Cuz he look handsome in the movie, hahahaah!
Well not a movie for me, but it's okay for entertainment.. just that buddhist spell in Taoist magic is a no no for sure. It's like an insult to Taoist more.. like saying a kungfu-man use boxing, it's a total insult. haha...
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Post by MakChingYuen on Nov 17, 2012 20:46:26 GMT
Hahahah! Yeah that's right! Buddhist and Taoist symbol don't mix!!! If you find something with Tao and Bud in the same place, that GOT to be a bad one! I don't know why many still think Buddhism can mix with Taoism.. sigh... it purely can't. Only the crooked sects that want to bow down to the Mongolians back then and lick their @ss will agree to blend Buddhism into the religion of Taoism. Taoism isn't even a religion in the world's religion definition! For anybody who is interested, here is a few articles I wrote that explain the history and why TAo and Bud don't mix. If anyone wanna read, feel free to do so. First, what is TAOISM the religion really mean (the name)? www.taoistmasterblog.com/definit ... se-taoism/ Now the Quan Zhen Sect crap from Yuan Dynasty (Wudang is one of them) that tainted the whole thing: www.taoistmasterblog.com/quan-zh ... explained/ Later on, more crap brew up, white lotus and Yihetuan which form the later crap like Tien-Di Religion, Luk Yam Shen Gong and Mao Shan Shen Gong..etc,. www.taoistmasterblog.com/truth-w ... ociety-12/ www.taoistmasterblog.com/yihetua ... escendent/ www.taoistmasterblog.com/mao-sha ... -examples/ Yeah, Mao Shan Shen Gong is not the same as genuine Mao Shan too. oh well, people don't get the real history and made up some crappy fiction to disguise that sect, haha.. sigh. It's not even about politics, it's about knockoffs and real history here. Sad... I really feel bad about Taoism sometimes because the world is full of BS on this religion and tons of misleading crap is the major thing that polluted the whole culture and even the western Taoism society. Since this is a ranting thread, let me rant.. hahahahaha! |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2012 0:48:21 GMT
Mak, it sounds like China has had a lot of history and politics that have driven the belief systems, just Like any other counry I guess! I'm familiar with the history of Buddhism, and how itstarted as a philosopy in India and changed to various styles of religious practise as it moved across Asia, each nation almost ending up with a different version of it. I haven't started studying the history of Taoism yet, I'm studying the Tao Te Ching, and know that Lao Tze was a philosopher, who they later deified (worshipped as a God). I looks like there have been many changes in Taoism too, looking forwad to learning the actual history. Some of the other movements in Chinese history are interesting, i'm surprised that the White Lotus Sect took rot in China, it's based on the old Persian religion of Zoroastrianism, which I guess came about then the Middle Easter emprires extended into China historically. Just out of interest, I was looking at Middle Eastern swords, and I noticed that the fittings on the scabbards of historical shamshir were like those on a jian. With further research I realised that the style originally came form the Middle East, and in their interaction with China, the style came across to the jian! See examples below of a jian based on historical versions and an antique shamshir:   There are so many influences coming into everything you look at historically as different cultures influence each other, it's hard figuring out what all the influences and changes were from history to the present. I'm learning a lot working it all out for myself!  |
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Post by junon on Nov 18, 2012 3:21:29 GMT
Hi Kuya,
I believe you are right. Huanuo/Fred Chen made swords for Cold Steel and Dynasty Forge (katana & chinese swords).
Dynasty Forge model resemble Huanuo swords more closely (there seems to be minor/no change in specs) while Cold Steel seems to alter the specs a little bit more (to make it heavier & stronger)...
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2012 3:29:32 GMT
junon, yes, that's correct, the Huanuo forgeds do make the Cold Steel swords, but to their specifications and standards. With Huanuo's own line of Chinese swords, they have been getting feedback and guidance from Scott Rodell to make their swords more historically accurate in size/balance/feel, and tomake them as strong as the originals.
I can see you have a picture of a jian in your signature, is that the Huanuo Jue Yun Jian, Pivotal Battle with the Clouds Sword, with the folded sanmai blade?
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Post by Adrian Jordan on Nov 18, 2012 3:33:18 GMT
I must agree with the you, MakChingYuen(if you don't mind my asking, what name do you commonly go by?). I cannot stand when a company tries to take advantage of a group, religion or symbol and doesn't even have the respect to get it right. It's not as though the symbols used are vague and/or hard to find; they are among the most common in Chinese martial arts and philosophy! I do believe that this is a matter of respect, and pride of workmanship. Your examples show companies who do not display either with these models.
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Post by junon on Nov 18, 2012 4:22:42 GMT
Hi Blackthorn,
That's correct. I ordered directly from Seven Stars Trading. Mr. and Mrs. Rodell helped me to get the sword shipped overseas (and they checked the sword for any flaws before shipping! Great service!).
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Post by Nox on Nov 18, 2012 5:34:29 GMT
Aw man I like Jet li movies! heheh
I get your point on this, but I have to say I think Wushu gets to much hate sometimes, though I can understand why those who practice traditional martial arts do get upset about it.
When I was younger and was in martial arts class and we went to see a wushu performance, I could only wish to have even half the skill those wushu athletes have. After my class did a training routine with them and it was pretty tough.
They have insane speed especially with weapons (flimsy and heavy) the flexibility of a gymnast, stamina, strength, and good memory to remember all those forms. In short I am saying that whether people want to believe it or not those athletes have skill, sure it's done for entertaining rather than killing or harming people and sure they use flimsy swords, but honestly it would be pretty careless of them to use sharp real swords in wushu or film.
Also notice I refer to them as athletes rather than martial artist.
This same kind of thing happened to Japanese swordsman ship with kendo, and with Shaolin Kung fu where as most of the "shaolin monks" nowdays perform what looks just like what wushu athletes perform.
Though if you look on the good side of some of this, sometimes things like movies and wushu get people into chinese culture and they go on to learn the real culture and real chinese martial arts.
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Post by MakChingYuen on Nov 18, 2012 5:39:49 GMT
Great that you know what is going on with Buddhism too, many Asian don't, you know that? Taoism, well.. it was doomed a long time ago. I don't even want to go into religion much here since it's all about swords but all I can say is, majority of Taoism you can find today is BS. China gov is the main cause of this today, they manipulate over religion so much and the bad stuff get promoted to highest, good stuff already demolished since the Yuan Dynasty, What's left? BS. Tao Te Ching.. you are right, Lao Zi is only a philosopher, but more accurate is he is only a thinker. If you research deeper, you will find he is not the author of Tao Te Ching the final book. It's the King of Chow Dynasty that promoted and distributed it and the book is not even about Taoism. If you go with a translation that say "the tao that can be spoken is not the tao" you got the whole book wrong. Especially the western translation are all based on QuanZhen Sect crap, which is a crappy lineage brew up in the Yuan Dynasty and they bribe / suck up to the Mongo's... none of it make sense. I do have a doc here if you like which tell you the truth behind this thing. It's my own work but I don't mind to share. If you wanna read it, just e-mail me : celestialmastermak@chiinnature.com! and I can send that over to you to read. I am very fired up when I do this doc cuz I am so mad at the western translator that turn this book of virtues into book of bullsheet! You are right about the white lotus too, did you read that history on my blog? or you know it yourself before? Surprise that you know more than many Asian! haha! Nice! Oh and nice sword comparison as well, i do see some similarities but the Chinese sword one have better vibe. I like things with less rocks and stones kinda jewels on them. Engravings are okay, but no stones and stuff is better for me. When things look too delicate and fancy, it is not meant to be use.. hahahaha I use the name of Mak Ching Yuen, that's my Taoist name 麥 (my last name) 清玄 my Taoist name. Thanks for the support and yeah it is really important to get things right if you wanna do it the way it is suppose to be! Saying it is a TAI CHI sword meaning it is a tai chi theme sword.. that piece of art with a wrong diagram is like now a piece of sheet! Wha ta disgrace to the tai chi people holding it, haha.. like the flag with wrong colors in the stripes, scary! |
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Post by Kuya on Nov 18, 2012 5:46:17 GMT
Jet Li may be an actor, but he can still manage some decent looking martial arts. I mean, Bruce Lee was an actor too, but for whatever reason, people think of him as a "real martial artist."
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Post by MakChingYuen on Nov 18, 2012 5:50:50 GMT
Bruce Lee is good in fighting if you look at his speed, but it's not kungfu. His health preserving is no good in the long run, it's just the physical body that people look at, but the inside is so bad and he is going the wrong path and ended his own life with this kind of wear and tear method... totally not kungfu like. I ain't a Bruce Lee fans because of this but I find him very funny in movies though, especially when you see people start to do kicks with WA CHAA!!! sound!
I do agree with you there, yeah call them athletes, that's all. It's not martial arts, it's a sport, just like other sports, running, jogging, gymnastics,etc,. The problem with wushu is not only about the practical or not part, it's more about the side effect you get with the wrong stretching and trainings. many Wushu guys have to stop and become a coach when they get old because of the side effect too. It's really bad for health, which many people can't see if all you see is the staged performance. It looks cool now, but not too cool later on when things start to kick in and the pain and aches start to come to haunt you down. That's totally anti-kungfu. Kungfu is about health preserving and making your body stronger and stronger, but wushu is reversed. Yeah, I can see how you think it require a lot of skills and body condition to do those moves, but no, actually it doesn't "preserve and condition" your body for the long run. Sad...
Shaolin? Nah.. really, majority of it is more like a monkey show. Not my cup of tea. Btw, I know a bunch of shaolin guys here who are con man too, they are SUPER cheating with the performance with all sorts of shaolin-made-props, sigh.. too sad to see this but I was in that kind of crap federation before and got scammed/con'd to do work for them and luckily I heard all the tricks they used.. like baked-bricks, heat-treated boards! (not like heat treated swords man! hahahaha!) and so on. It's all a scam.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2012 8:10:45 GMT
hi Junon, I've ordered a Huawei liuyedao (willow leaf sabre) from Scott Rodell,, waiting for it to arrive!
Agreed, they are very helpful, and the prices at Seven Stars Trading are really good.
I like you're dao too, you have two fine swords there!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2012 8:37:52 GMT
Mak, I thing I know what you're getting at, many of the styles you mention have become very 'yang' and external, with the internal aspect has been lost.
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Post by junon on Nov 18, 2012 8:48:37 GMT
Well, Martial Arts is quite a big business now... For people who is looking for a good reading (it discussed sword development as well), I would recommend "Chinese Martial Arts" by Peter Lorge. It goes in depth about the state of Martial Arts development in China... www.amazon.com/Chinese-Martial-A ... rtial+arts |
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Post by MakChingYuen on Nov 18, 2012 9:05:29 GMT
It's not even about yang or yin, that's not right way to explain it. You can say it's getting more "westernized" instead and the traditional way of training is lost. Many people were influenced by Bruce Lee and that's why it's getting so bad. One of my student who is learning chi kung from me said.. she once got hyped into kungfu before and went for a class to learn some kungfu with her son, then all they do is "push up, sit up, jumping jacks, running and jogging and all kinds of workouts and then at the last 15 mins or so you get to follow them and do a form or something" hey, that is kungfu? Why don't you just do that yourself at home? Why do you need to go to a class to learn all that crap? It's not even kungfu!
It's not even yang or not, it's wrong.. hahaha.. Kungfu's yang is not like that, kungfu's yang is very traditional too, just like in the modern way, people start to do push up and stuff from the western workout methods, but that's not what we do in kungfu to gain those power though. It's totally different. The Yang way in kungfu uses the "lock weights" (you can replace it with dumbbells or other weights) to do a form with holding each movements for a breathing pattern.. that is extenral training method to gain the power. Imagine holding a position with 30 lb dumbbell in the hand for 15 sec, you will be shaking like hell right? um.. most people can't even do it. but that's kungfu~ You build that power up... not push up and sit ups... it's not even the way to go.
Remember horse stance training? That's consider to be the YANG side of kungfu too.. not jumping jacks!
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Post by Turok on Nov 18, 2012 9:42:48 GMT
Hi MakChingYuen, I agree with you too! I think its also a shame that Chinese swords are not as appreciated other cultures. It's kinda ironic that Hanwei produces more better quality katanas and western swords than jians and daos (it being a China based company). I think the best thing we should do is to ask Hanwei for more chinese weapons that are actually designed to cut, kinda like the Rodell designed jian. I've seen the company reproduce katanas, rapiers, and even "glow-in-the-dark" broadswords :roll: ! So why can't they make something original for the traditional Chinese martial artist. I know that there is a demand for this, I've seen people on this forum, SFI, and even the CS forum asking for more daos and jians for many years. Some people, including myself, are still waiting for the Rodell dao too. To tell you the truth, I really appreciate your comments and your threads. I think it really keeps the Chinese Sword forum active. I don't want to be rude but this part of the forum tends to be kinda quiet!  Gotta admit, the market really isn't good for martial arts weapons altogether not just swords. I've seen a lot of really (and I mean REALLY CRAPPY) nunchuckus, sais, tonfas, staffs, and anything related to martial arts out there. Guess it's sign of the times...BTW Jet Li really is just an actor imho. He uses props, wires, sfx, and even stunt doubles in all his work. The old kung fu actors LITERALLY did all there own stunts like Bruce Lee and Jackie Chan! That's why I will always admire them more than Li! |
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Post by MakChingYuen on Nov 18, 2012 10:27:47 GMT
Yeah I did realize this section of the forum is kinda quiet because I had been "watching" it for awhile by accident.. like I try to search up some swords and google got me here again and I just try to check out if there are any "new and exciting swords" but seems like it's always the same thing. hahaha.. too little fun in Jian section.  If you are into kungfu, you might know we got tons of exotic weapons but guess what, not much good stuff out there for those except the wushu special holy crap-steel that they use with chrome plated crap. You know what's so good about these steel that made is so well praised? I once heard from a "MASTER" saying this --- "This is nice... look, how shiny, how good balance, how nice the weight is..." and he was staring at the holy-chrome-plated-sword with his eyes like as if he found the best sword in the world... I pointed to a han jian beside and tell him that one is better, he said "No... no way. Those are not for kungfu, those are for decorations only, the balance is not good, too heavy, no good..." and he was like I was insulting him to tell him to try a han jian out. You see the problem with some "MASTERS"? I am not talking about those that only teach at home, this guy got a storefront man, and he is like that.. oh man.. Not only him, but a LOT of kungfu **masters*** are like that too, if you watch their performance, they use these "flexi-swords" that flex like a noodle all the time, it's really really really FLEXIBLE! hahahaha! It's a real experience! |
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Post by stickem on Nov 18, 2012 14:31:19 GMT
Since you guys are just regurgitating things commonly said about Bruce Lee, it is easy to forgive your not knowing the truth. No worries. However, it is a silly mistake people commonly make, so I'll name it here just to be clear. Namely, for some reason people inexplicably believe the way it happens in the movies is supposed to represent real life. Then they apply this logic to Bruce Lee without really thinking about what they are saying or what this means. Huh? The movies are make believe  To make this point clear, we'll use an example everyone is familiar with: For example, if we watch the movie Rambo, with Sylvester Stallone walking around totin' a machine gun, able to kill hundreds of "enemies" without himself dying, and then say to each other, "Hey, that's really the way they do it in the army! They just send one guy in who is really good, and he's so good that he always hits his target, never has to reload his gun, and is bulletproof 'cause they never get him!!! I wanna join the army and do that too!"Then how stoopid would we be? When we walked into the Army recruiting office and they didn't just hand us a machine gun and drop us behind enemy lines, who would be the idiot? Right  The same thing with Bruce Lee. The same thing if we watch Enter the Dragon and reach similar conclusions about one guy taking on the world in a movie being real. So if we assume the trampolines and screaming and theatrics and stunts we see in his movies are the real way to fight in real life, then go out and try to imitate this in the real world and call it "fighting," then who is the idiot? That was acting. Fighting is different. Seems obvious. But apparently some folks don't get it. The truth is Sigung Bruce did not fight the same way in front of the cameras as he did off camera. Not at all. I know this because I have spoken directly with more than one of Bruce Lee's direct students about this subject. The truth is, in the real world the way Bruce Lee fought was very simple, direct, and to the point. I assure you he was not looking for a trampoline to jump off of or screaming bloody murder :roll: Instead, he typically had a straight blast going, which would end up with his hand around your throat; the point being, this is not what you see happen in his movies. So my suggestion to you guys is maybe think a little deeper before forming opinions about people and then throwing them out there for everyone to hear. While I agree it is indeed sad to see many people watch Bruce Lee movies and come away thinking that flying through the air or screaming is the important part, then try to imitate these shenanigans without catching on to what martial arts really is about, the question is whether it is the right view to blame Bruce Lee for this, or the people who imitate his movies? Kung fu is really about time and effort.  |
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Post by StevenJ on Nov 18, 2012 14:33:33 GMT
Well I blame the destruction of Chinese culture on Mao but that's just me and certain 'westerners' in 'high' positions. Any more clarification will have to be done through a private message. This is a bit off topic but a lot of the esoteric Tao teachings in your blog remind me of works of Manly P Hall and other Masonic scholars. Heavily invested in alchemy, astrology, and the zodiac signs. I know a lot of the western esoteric, Rosicrucians, Masons, Theosophers etc borrow a lot from eastern culture as did old Gnostic sects. I don't know if you're familiar with odd off shoots like Manicheanism or know who the prophet Mani was. I know they are much outside Taoism but they all have similar spiritual world vs material world beliefs though probably more extreme in some sense than what you believe. Very interesting stuff and I wish there more cool Chinese people like you around.
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Post by MakChingYuen on Nov 18, 2012 15:36:21 GMT
Re your bruce lee stuff since you quoted my passage.
No I do know how he fight for real and it's not because I watched his movies, it's because I know people who witness him fight in real and so that's where it came from. Of course it is not like in the movies, but yet, he was fast, that's all I was saying. When people imitate him and go WACHAAA that was the funny thing I was trying to say.. like how people really think he fight like that and go WACHAAAAA like that. Of course that's not the real fighting. But then I was just saying that was the funny point.
Bruce Lee isn't your si gung unless you practice JKD. Do you do JKD? He isn't even a ip man wingchun inherit person to be accurate. Just that the JKD guys now claim he is the grandmaster or founder and respect him for it. So.. you JKDer?
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Gotta admit, the market really isn't good for martial arts weapons altogether not just swords. I've seen a lot of really (and I mean REALLY CRAPPY) nunchuckus, sais, tonfas, staffs, and anything related to martial arts out there.
