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Post by Sullivan on Jan 20, 2013 18:13:13 GMT
I third the Hanwei Banshee...
It's based off the Dha- perfect mid-ground between a sword(saber style, repeatedly noted for it's ease of use with little-to-no-training) and the Machete that has been mentioned. The thai, khmer, burmese, and other jungle-dwelling populations have been carrying them for centuries for just that, a good mid-grounds between tool and sd/melee weapon... A utilitarian-sword, so to speak.
-It covers most of the ground in regards to concerns brought up for a bladed, pack-carry weapon. It's well-balanced, short, monosteel, with a deadly tip, and is made with enough heft in the spine to carry it through most objects you would need it for. -Very conventional means can put (and keep) an edge on it, unlike some collector's style blade that require something more along the lines of "polishing" as opposed to "sharpening". -It is also properly heat-treated, something a lot of cheaper-made, ground-to-shape sheet metal mass-production machetes aren't. I've seen it treated with extreme abuse and survive much more than just saplings.
I understand that nothing REALLY replaces a respective tool, especially in this day and age, where if we still have the rudimentary tool in question- it's proven it's great at doing it's job. A sword does not replace a hatchet does not replace a machete, so-on-and-so-forth. *BUT* if you really feel safer with a nice sword, that can overlap usage in survival situations, it's the Banshee in my book.
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Post by gbayes on Jan 20, 2013 18:38:53 GMT
Actually I'm pretty sure anyone in my Hema class could kill an untrained attacker with a machete. And that includes the 22 year old girl that started a month ago and weights about 120lbs.
Most of what you do with a long edged weapon and no training is wrong and easily exploited by anyone who knows the basics.
You would actually have a much better chance with a small knife or no weapon at all
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Post by Lukas MG (chenessfan) on Jan 20, 2013 21:14:45 GMT
As I was saying, don't underestimate organizations like HEMA. Now I'm not very familiar with the US but here in Germany there's at least one group in every decently sized city and it's spreading like yellow fever Some consider this a bad development because obviously more practitioners and schools mean a higher chance you get schools teaching utter crap (as witnessed with every popular martial art) but I find the positive aspects (generally more knowledge and public acceptance) outweigh the possible negative developments. I wouldn't be TOO confident if you have a couple years of HEMA under your belt though... someone actually determined to kill you is different than every sparring match. Sheer malice and rage can balance out a lack of skill to a certain extent. I wouldn't bet on the girl just yet Actually, I find total newbies harder to fight than people who have just a little bit of knowledge. Newbies tend to go all suidicial, someone running at you with a sword isn't all that easy to stop cold. It's quite likely you'll get hit as well. At least the people who have been in for a bit can be expected to follow certain rules.
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George
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Post by George on Jan 21, 2013 0:32:21 GMT
I feel u guys are missing a key element to fighting. Luck. To say 'you would be better with no weapon or a knife' against a HEMA person, is stupid. People fall, people make mistakes when high on adrenalin. Training turns the tables alot but there have been many times a weaker untrained opponent has been 'lucky' and beaten a trained professional.
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Post by demonskull on Jan 21, 2013 1:45:46 GMT
While circumstances or luck if you prefer, can go against you, training puts the odds in your favor.
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Post by oolong dao on Jan 21, 2013 9:14:08 GMT
no what thay are forgetting is that no amount of flynning can stop a bullet. That and survival situation require more than a longsword can provide.
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George
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Post by George on Jan 21, 2013 11:39:34 GMT
Yep i agree of course! But there are so many variable, time of day, light, terrain, skill the lists go one. Bullet wins.
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Post by KentsOkay on Jan 21, 2013 15:26:07 GMT
In my experience, there is no such thing as luck, only training. Training helps you anticipate and prepare for bad situations.
There is also no substitute for a purpose built tool or weapon. Full length swords don't clear brush as well as a machete, and machetes are inferior to swords in combat. A kopis/parang doesn't chop as well as a hatchet. A pistol or shotgun isn't as effective at neutralizing threats in a variety of situations as a rifle. A rifle cannot be carried undetected easily like a pistol. Diet coke is neither coke nor healthy. The list goes on and on.
In a full blown PAW/WTM scenario, I have no qualms about carrying a purpose built tool if it is substantially more effective than some hybrid multi-purpose tool, and the job that tool performs is important to me. So yes I would carry a hatchet, machete like object, a full length sword, and a spear/staff. All of these tools do their jobs so well, it would be senseless to leave home without them. Overpacking? Maybe, but with all those high speed, low drag options in modern camping/survival/bugout gear, why not take your saved weight and convert it over to more pointy sticks and rocks?
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Post by Anders on Jan 21, 2013 16:45:04 GMT
So, wait, you're saying you don't belive in random chance? You don't think it's possible to lose a battle simply by accident?
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Post by gbayes on Jan 21, 2013 17:42:48 GMT
It's an interesting question. Yes and no. In any competitive situation (not just battles) there are a million unplanned / random factors. Generally things balance out more or less, sometimes one side if left with a real advantage. There is a cognitive bias called Self Serving Bias which humans have which tends to assign the root cause of their victories to their own skill and assign their losses to luck. It's very easy to forget the other guy is probably getting his share of bad luck as well That being said, random factors can play a major role. The degree to which they influence outcomes can still be influenced by training. A good example is the Battle of Antitiem Which was probably the single greatest example of an event influenced by random chance
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Post by lamebmx on Jan 21, 2013 17:54:09 GMT
I think it was also Japanese won some.thanks to typhoon season or something like that
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Post by feral on Jan 21, 2013 18:01:10 GMT
I'm just going to make a couple of these and see how they perform.
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Post by Onimusha on Jan 21, 2013 19:01:51 GMT
A man doesn't have to be better than you to kill you. He just has to be luckier. The problem is that there's no accounting for dumb luck. So, you can't waste time worrying about it.
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George
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Post by George on Jan 22, 2013 2:37:31 GMT
Sorry to sound rude but that above comment confirms with me you have never been in a real fight. To say you would never trip, you would never tire and let a guard down for even a split second who your opponent just happened to be looking in that direction and take advantage of that? No amount of training can ever extinguish ALL luck for a battle or fight.
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Post by KentsOkay on Jan 22, 2013 4:56:25 GMT
No, I have never been in an encounter where I feared for my life. If I was, either the opponent or myself would be dead right now. I have been in several encounters where both parties intended great harm to the other, each time I would like to think I came out on top (they gave up or submitted before I did).
Luck is walking down the street and finding a scratch ticket that gets you $50, then buying another lottery ticket with the proceeds that nets you the jackpot. Luck is not your opponent tripping upon himself and failing to recover quickly, that is simply poor training and preparedness on his part. If properly observed, most situations can be planned for. I can never pick perfectly where I put my feet, or what surface I will be on when a situation is forced upon me. I do however have a say in my footwear, my agility, and I can also practice taking action when I do fall so that I am ready and hardwired to get back up again, or even bring the opponent to the ground with me,perhaps to my advantage. In one of those testosterone fueled situations, this is exactly how I gained the upper hand. I am not a big guy, and knowing this I have practiced with the thought that my opponents will be larger. When my antagonist went to knock me down, I brought him with me. He landed with me knee in his breadbasket, I rolled him off of me with aid from his momentum (from a fall he failed to plan for), and proceeded to pound him into submission with knee strikes and punches.
I feel there is way too much emphasis in this thread about hardware, as opposed to software, but lets face it, talking about hardware is much more fun.
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George
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Post by George on Jan 22, 2013 5:23:21 GMT
Im sorry but luck is a part of life. I work in a job where there is every control possible to prevent death and injury BUT the one thing they cant plan for is luck. Being in a huge hole 700 meters deep, the walls can decide to fall in at anytime. Its happened before. The have sensors and radar, geologists and cameras. Wire rocks and pillars, basically everything you could think of for an early alarm and prevention system to stop rock fall. But they cant prevent it all. The only way to get rid off all luck where i work is not go to work. The only way to prevent luck in a fight, don't be in a fight.
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Post by KentsOkay on Jan 22, 2013 6:12:01 GMT
See, where you say luck, I would say "chance of -".
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Post by Onimusha on Jan 22, 2013 16:18:41 GMT
Call it luck, chance, fate, or whatever you like. It is a factor, and you can't do anything to prepare for it.
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Post by Sullivan on Jan 23, 2013 1:40:07 GMT
@ LameBmx, Yes, that was how the Japanese were fortunate enough to escape an invasion by the Mongols, twice! It is part of what lead the Japanese to proclaim that they were a divine domain, protected by the gods. In fact, that is where the word Kami-Kaze comes from, Kaze being wind (most sword nuts know that) and Kami being the traditional Japanese word associated with Gods or divinity, so you get "Wind of the Gods/ Divine Wind". Funny how the term was re-purposed for planes on a suicide-dive.
Sorry for the overly didactic post.
Originally, this thread was to discuss what we thought the best sword or bladed weapon would be in this situation, no? Back and forth on which weapon we'd like to have, of the sharp variety?
It kind of seems we've diverted the original purpose of this thread. It's become about the best training to have in a SHTF situation, or the efficacy of such training, or whether or not luck is a factor in trumping the skilled, or who would kill who regardless of the weapon they held. The old saying goes "It's better to be lucky than skilled." I think? Though I'd like to be lucky, AND skilled. I DIGRESS...
Hopefully we can get this thread back on track, because we could chew all day on the aforementioned argument, and should... in a different thread!
Forgive my brashness, I don't mean to be rude or intrusive. Also, I know I am not the person who started this thread, just someone who really liked reading everyone's ideas on what would be good to carry, for those of us who just feel more comfortable with a nice edged weapon to accompany whatever other tools we choose to keep on us in the scenario. I would just like to see the conversation on that topic started back up.
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Post by Sullivan on Jan 23, 2013 2:40:09 GMT
And feral, I love that Tactical style Leaf-Blade, really cool. Especially because I have a love of ring-pommel's, I love how Ashitaka uses his in "Princess Mononoke", he's holding his sword and then just slips his index finger through the loop so it hangs off his hand while he draws his bow, ready to switch back to his sword/machete blade after he let's his arrow fly. I think that would be a great blade to have in the situation.I think, in general, short swords are better suited to the "cut-and-run (and cut-and-run again)" environments that preppers are, well, preparing for. Let me know if you get any of those made, as I'd love to see that come to fruition.
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