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Post by metinemre on Jul 11, 2012 20:43:21 GMT
Can you tell me the best beater swords you have/had.
For what purpose you have/had these? Stage combat/steel to steel/back yard cutting/abusing it for fun/testing over shields/armour. How good is/was your beater.
I`ve read somewhere on the forum, someone was mentioning the historical accuracy on weight about swords.
Considering the medieval swords are at least 500-700 years old. I guess it was about metals losing 30% of their weight until they survived to our time. And museum inspections are made with today`s weight.
Considering high end swords are really light and easy to handle(most of them) with today`s muscle % average normal men. (not talking about the daily gym attenders) in our century.
Maybe those swords that are measured in museums were all considerably heavy before they rusted underground? And actual swords were all beaters until the civilised era?
Also men at that time were more muscular especially soldiers who train with sword and other weapons everyday.
One was mentioning on youtube how easy Jason handles and cuts with DSA guardian and sword being super heavy and other mentioning Jason a muscular tank. Or Conan if he was real 7lbs sword could be a cake for him with that muscle build?
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Lunaman
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Post by Lunaman on Jul 11, 2012 20:51:06 GMT
I can't even begin to dissect this one, I have to leave for a meeting, but it suffices to say that these conclusions are very far off the mark. I appreciate your enthusiasm, though. Somebody else please explain.
As for the first question, my only beater is a starfire, for stage combat, it's a good piece for that. And that's all it's good for--it's not much like a real sword.
Later.
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Post by metinemre on Jul 11, 2012 21:03:19 GMT
 Yeah someone commented about erosion of the metal in time would be around %30 person of the total weight for a medieval swword. A new big confusion for me haha.
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Post by ShooterMike on Jul 11, 2012 21:22:28 GMT
Measured weights on historic swords, used to recreate modern interpretations, are seldom based on wasted away specimens. There are many swords from the medieval period that survive intact. Some of them look like they could have been made a dozen years ago. Then there are somewhat wasted away specimens that are very similar to intact surviving specimens. Through analysis of weights of both, we can guess pretty well as to how the weights and measurements of the wasted specimens would have changed, and thus figure out what they were like as newly made swords with great accuracy. For a masive amount of information about medieval swords, watch this (rather long) video. It starts a little slow, but the last 3rd of the video is more than many people learn in a lifetime of studying medieval swords. See the 5th video from the top of the page. forums.dfoggknives.com/index.php ... ntry223115 |
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Sean (Shadowhowler)
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Post by Sean (Shadowhowler) on Jul 11, 2012 21:31:44 GMT
The guys that make swords based on surviving examples take into account the lost material in a sword that has seen significant corrosion... to NOT do so would be a pretty glaring and obvious mistake, wouldn't you agree?
As to men back then being stronger... evidence suggest the opposite in fact. Look at the years of recording athletic endeavor... we have been getting stronger and faster as medical science and training techniques have improved.
My favorite beater sword is a Generation 2 Chaos sword. A Beast.
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Aaron
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Post by Aaron on Jul 11, 2012 22:23:10 GMT
I've only owned one "beater" sword, a Global Gear Templar that I got in a trade. I promptly gave it away.
I can't say that I have any interest in owning a beater, since it does not replicate the function of a sword very well. Mike's post about sums it up.
And Arnold swings that sword around for a couple of minutes at a time, TOPS, before the scene ends. Then he got nice and rested before the next scene. Films are glamorous and as much as I enjoy film production, many films (especially sword films) present an unrealistic benchmark and do not reflect reality. Especially something like Conan, which does not even attempt to portray anything besides a fantasy world.
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Post by Ceebs on Jul 11, 2012 22:39:32 GMT
It's an interesting theory about swords losing weight over the years but I've never seen any scientific evidence for that. If they were to lose such a significant amount of mass whilst rusting then we'd definitely know about it as the swords in question would have most likely fallen apart. This doesn't account for many period swords in collections that are almost pristine or mildly degraded whose weights we can judge accurately. I fear this is simply another idea harking back to the '10 pound sword' myth.
I have an A&A Fechterspiel Trainer that I use for WMA stuff but there is absolutely no way I'd use it for something like stage combat (edge on edge parries) or mindless whacking of random objects. 'Horses for courses' and all that. It excels at its purpose which is sword combat. Probably the closest thing I have to a beater though.
This goes back to 'Horses for courses'. An overbuilt heavy sword made purposefully to be a 'beater' will no doubt be adept at
carving up random objects in the back yard. A piece made simply for sword combat does not need to weigh 7 pounds nor does the person wielding it need to be completely buff. Yes, muscular endurance is good, but a conan-esque physique is unnecessary. Technique trumps brute strength.
If Conan knew anything about swords he would know that weight does not necessarily equal quality/cutting power/survivability.
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Aaron
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Post by Aaron on Jul 11, 2012 22:46:48 GMT
Ten pounds?? You sissy, a good sword weighs at least forty! :lol:
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Post by Ceebs on Jul 11, 2012 22:56:30 GMT
Ahhhh yes, how silly of me! :oops:
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Post by Sneakypete on Jul 12, 2012 0:53:59 GMT
Best beater I ever had was the 12th Century Two-Hander from Darksword Armory. This one here: www.kultofathena.com/product.asp ... rd+-+Brown It was a beast, no doubt about that: 45 inches from stem to stern, and 4 pounds if it was a gram. I wouldn't call it a flattened crowbar, it was just... heavy. But if you want something you can bash against telephone poles, garbage cans, stop-signs and fence-posts and still have it come back for more without a scratch on it, well look no further. Don't know if this is typical for all of them, but mine had the most gorgeous ring I've ever heard from any sword. So yeah. You want a beater, get yourself a Darksword. Not everyone likes what they do, but they are the best at it. |
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Post by metinemre on Jul 12, 2012 1:35:43 GMT
Thanks for the explanations again guys.
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Lunaman
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Post by Lunaman on Jul 12, 2012 5:52:10 GMT
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Post by metinemre on Jul 12, 2012 9:19:04 GMT
Great info with prove Luna, thanks.
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Post by Rabel Dusk on Jul 12, 2012 14:11:02 GMT
Beaters don't have to be crowbars. I have the Gus Trim made SB1450, an XVIIIb made for reenactment/stage combat. It was designed to act as much like a real sword as possible, the same weight and balance. Unlike something like a Starfire, it is quick and handy. Unfortunately, it hasn't been available for some years. I also have a Tinker Pearce custom made XVIa that serves the same purpose. It's even faster that the SB1450. They've both held up well to years of use.
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Sean (Shadowhowler)
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Post by Sean (Shadowhowler) on Jul 13, 2012 0:24:57 GMT
Yeh, sorry bout that. 
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jhart06
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Post by jhart06 on Jul 13, 2012 0:38:03 GMT
My counter to that is with stage fighting (and I can speak with some experience) you don't need the handling on a regular euro one or two hander, and the jump in price will usually rule out the more costly forms. But then again, I never bothered with the higher end on stage as my starfire was always enough. If I want a tougher stage blade in the next price bracket, BKS is a no brainer. The warranties on the blades of both companies make the difference in handling more than negligible in trade.
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Aaron
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Post by Aaron on Jul 13, 2012 17:11:01 GMT
No sweat on your part, Sean. You were 100% upfront about what the sword was. Just wasn't either of our cup of tea.
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Yeah someone commented about erosion of the metal in time would be around %30 person of the total weight for a medieval swword. A new big confusion for me haha.
For clarification, here's a few photos of the condition of some medieval swords that obviously haven't lost mass to corrosion. Certain specimens are in superb conditon.
