Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2012 21:20:02 GMT
Hey guys. Never owned a sword before, and honestly finding the right one is a hard task. I like sabres, in design and looks, so finding a strong sturdy sabre that handles well would be great. Preferably infantry as I have no horse to hang it from.  |
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Lunaman
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Post by Lunaman on Jun 24, 2012 3:17:01 GMT
Most repro sabers on the market are cavalry weapons, but don't worry--no one requires you to have a horse to wear one.  Cold steel's sabers are pretty good. One of these might suit you, depending on how heavy you want your weapon: ArmyPrussianAustrian1796Dave Kelly is the person you want to ask, though. I dunno much about sabers in general. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2012 4:00:47 GMT
I'd prefer it as light and "lively" as possible, without losing it's effectiveness.
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Post by Dave Kelly on Jun 24, 2012 13:02:07 GMT
Obviously, "light" and effectiveness pose a dilema. The lighter the sword the less force it exerts at the the point of percussion. There are ways to compensate for that. Usually something like the Brit 1796 did it by keeping the blade very wide in order to provide more mass at the striking point (and sharpened to penetrate). Unfortunately the Cold Steel 96 has too much steel in the foible. ( The advertised weight is also wrong, as mine was delivered at 2.5 lbs. ) Goodbye to "liveliness. The late era service swords such as the US 1902 are too light for cutting. They will cut. But unless well tempered they will also bend and fail with any sort of load put on them. Middle ground the Prussian M1852/76 is a fair choice. Light weight, but the pipeback provides rigidity. Windless makes some civil war swords that are cheap and serviceable, just need to be sharpened to cut with. Stay under 2.3 pounds if you want light. For the neophyte who does'nt know what they want I most often recommend the Cold Steel Shamsir as a first commercial saber. A military grade blade which comes sharpened. The British and Napoleon brought these back from the mid east and they have been fashionable ever since ( the Marine Corps still uses theirs).  Whatever you decide on have fun. If it was easy to decide your house wouldn't look like this....  :mrgreen: |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2012 14:27:49 GMT
Nice collection! Is the Marine Corps sword worth checking out? I was looking at the "light" cavalry saber but apparently it's not so light. Also my problem with the Prussian is it's threaded which concerns me.
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Post by Dave Kelly on Jun 24, 2012 15:46:49 GMT
Which one ( Officer naval clone or the NCO mamaluk - same as shamshir)?
Problem with the modern service swords is that they start out with a 7/8th inch wide blade and go down from there. They are weapons, but I think that's to slight a blade. Better for thrusting than cutting.
I wouldn't worry too much about the thread bolts. Lots of late 19th century industrail swords went to thread Bolts. The Patton 1913 and the Austrian 1904 among them.
'nother concern. Any saber you buy that has etching at mid blade will have the etching spoilt in the process of cutting. Natural state of affairs.
Cheers
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2012 16:00:23 GMT
I was talking about the CS Marine Corps. Also at their light cavalry sword. So far people seem to think Cold Steel fs the way to go on this.
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Post by Dave Kelly on Jun 24, 2012 16:27:24 GMT
If you want a cut ready modern era saber there aren't that many options. Weapon Edge India has one of the larger, and diverse catalogs of modern euro sabers, but their blades are all ahistoric out of taper pieces. You can sharpen them and use them to cut, but they won't handle to saves their butts.
Thee area few Windlass and Hanweis worth looking at.
The Windlass 1860 is only $89.00 and is a very legitimate cutter. (Order sharpened or do yourself.)
( course you've already learned, I hope that u never but direct from CS. KoA and Trueswords are the best for pricing)
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2012 16:56:56 GMT
Yeah, I must say that finding a light, "lively" sabre is not an easy task. All the sabres I've owned were very heavy bladed. That never bothered me personally, as I could still swing them around like any other one-handed sword... but I used to spar and train as a kid with baseball bats (one-handed, as a sword). Compared with other swords though, they throw all the weight into a swing and do not return easily for a counter. I don't think sabres were meant to carry on long man-to-man melees. If you've ever taken modern fencing, there are three different styles used - foil, epee, and sabre. Sabre matches are very different from epee or foil fencing, instead being very quick on-off passes. With saber fencing two opponents rush at each other from opposite ends, and try to land a single blow on the pass. How well that blow is executed is what awards points. I believe this is somewhat accurate to how the saber was meant to be used, given the design of the blade. Of course many sabres were used on horseback so naturally they would be used "on the pass", but even on foot I believe they were primarily a single-attack weapon. Out of all modern western fencing styles, sabre fencing was the one that interested me the most as it is the only swinging style (as opposed to thrust-only) in modern fencing, and doesn't require awkward wrist positioning (modern foils and epees even use a pistol grip now!). Of course, I like kendo a lot more though for a full-on sparring match.  I hope this isn't going too off-topic... the mention of a "light, lively saber" just brought this subject to mind for me. More on the topic of the swords themselves... I will also have to say that there is a very large selection of production sabres that are made in India. They seem to be largely heavy bladed though, and I don't know much more about their quality except that they are sharp and can certainly cut. I had one, but only used it as a machete, lol. |
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Post by Dave Kelly on Jun 24, 2012 17:31:12 GMT
 :shock: Amazed you managed to grow up and join us instead of becoming a stain on the pavement. Hockey sticks would have been more civilized... :mrgreen:
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2012 17:33:49 GMT
lol, just because I'm from Canada doesn't mean we have to use hockey sticks for everything. :mrgreen: Never had any injuries from sparring with baseball bats btw, but bruised knuckles were the norm coming out of any match. We always felt it was better to train with something heavier than a sword, lol. We were just dumb kids, and I'm sure it didn't help my technique much. I'm happy with an oak bokken now. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2012 18:48:30 GMT
Thanks guys. I have no problem with a heavy saber if that's how they were intended. I was under the impression a more close-to-original saber would be easier than say, a medieval or viking design.
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Post by Dave Kelly on Jun 24, 2012 20:12:39 GMT
Just when I think I know how to answer your query, you throw a brain fart up for grins... :roll: Rooooooookie  Swords have an historical continuum of competing cultures and technologies. "What's intended" is constantly in flux. Sabers styles vary. At one time cavalrymen carried a menagerie of weapon systems to deal with differnt sorts of targets. You said you wanted a light saber. Got my suggestions ( I left out the Cold Steel French 1830 which is in fact a Fr 1813 light cav saber, much closer to it's Polish roots than the Hussar sabers based on the German 1733 saberasaurous. ) Do you want to talk heavies? |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2012 21:15:51 GMT
Haha sure. How are the CS heavy and light sabers? And by intended purpose I mean functional enough to be used in warfare, though I didn't want to come off as the, "I WANT TO KILL PEOPLEZ WITH TEH SWORDZ" kind of guy. |
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Post by Dave Kelly on Jun 24, 2012 22:56:33 GMT
Are Cold Steel swords of military grade?
Won't address their medis or oriental types, but the modern euros are military grade, carbon steel sharpened swords. Yes.
CS doesn't make anything they market. It's all sub contracted to "mystery makers". But there are just so many makers out there, so who they are is pretty easy to guess. Windlass, WEI and Hanwei. CS may ask for contract mods to the designs, but far as I can determine these are all oriental exports.
Far as being sharp. The culture. craft and ethos of swordsmanship doesn't see anything illogical is having sharp swords. ( cept for training) Not an issue. As a disciplined lover of the sword I don't plan to gratuitously cut down anyone for gits and shiggles. (Gets ya in the newspapers and sent to very unfashionable rubber rooms...)
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2012 23:59:40 GMT
Exactly. Only cut a persons torso open in defense. But yeah, that basically was the jist of what I meant. I'm a total novice when it comes to swords, even worse when ti comes to sabers. Up until now I've been more a high end knife guy. |
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Post by Anders on Jun 25, 2012 17:51:31 GMT
In a saber, I would actually look for something medium weight - not too heavy or clumsy, but something that feels reliable and packs a decent punch. I own an antique infantry saber from ca 1850 and it actually strikes me as too light - flimsy, almost.
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Post by Rabel Dusk on Jun 25, 2012 20:56:40 GMT
So why isn't anybody making historically accurate sabers? They can't be that big a secret - there are plenty of originals kicing around, and it should be possible to reverse engineer one of them.
Of course, many antique sabers are relatively inexpensive compared to other antique swords, and shouldn't cost much more that a modern replica.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2012 23:48:29 GMT
Who knows man. :/
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Post by Anders on Jun 26, 2012 1:14:57 GMT
It's not that nobody knows how to make them. It's that there's not as much of a market for them as there is for say Asian or medieval European swords. Historical examples also tend to have very strong distal tapers, which makes making accurate replicas via stock removal pretty wasteful. So, finding good replicas at all is kinda hard, let alone for $300 or less.
There's that, too. People who are both into this type of swords and have means to spend on them - Dave, for example - tend to be just as or even more likely to go for antiques.
Personally, I would much rather own a good reproduction than an antique, unless that antique was in damn near mint condition, because I don't really like old swords. But I suppose I'm in a considerable minority.
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:shock: 
