|
Post by stickem on Apr 9, 2012 20:15:06 GMT
Hi all! I am new to this forum and Japanese blades in general. As my first katana, I bought a Hanwei Raptor from Kult of Athena at their scratch'n'dent section for $200. This saved me $85 off the regular price. The only issue with the sword is it came with a significant crack in the mouth of the saya, which is visible both on the outside of the saya and from the inside of the opening. It got worse when I drew the sword for the first time, and obviously this is a real functional problem to have. I humbly chose to buy a Raptor becasue it is supposed to be forgiving on virgins like myself learning to make cuts on bamboo and straw and such. Here is their description of the Raptor: kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=SH2414&name=Hanwei+Raptor+Shinogi+Zukuri+KatanaI am asking for help here, because I figured you all collectively have as much experience in these things as anyone... but I have spent some time and effort on my own doing research as well and have a guesstimate as to what might work... So here's my idea for fixing the Raptor: I measured the top of the saya. It comes to a length of 44mm and a width of 23mm. This measurement was done using a wooden metric ruler, so I make no claim of the exact accuracy of the measurements, but they are the best I can do with the tools at hand, and should be close enough to precise. So I found this website offering metal bands for saya repair: www.japanese-swords.com/pages/kojiri.htmHere is the image of the bands currently available: The koiguchi labeled "C" (the one which looks rather like bronze with some bamboo leaves design) has listed measurements of 44x23mm, which is the same as my saya. Although this is an expensive item to buy at $95, the fabrication of a koiguchi on my own from raw metal is a little above my paygrade on the metelsmithing scale. Not exactly sure how to attach a metal koiguchi to a wooden saya, but could use some sort of Gorilla Glue or even an epoxy if need be. Because I do have carpentry skills, I think I can do the woodworking necessary to repair the split mouth on my Raptor saya if it requires a little cutting with an X-acto knife and some filing with a fine wood rasp. So the bottom line is I am thinking of purchasing this specific koiguchi and using it to repair my saya cracked mouth. What are you all's thoughts on my thinking process? As stated before, I am a beginner, but not a complete idiot. I am willing to learn how to do this myself, with guidance from folks who have been here before. You have to get started fixing your own katanas somewhere, as well as understanding the terminology and how the fittings are originally designed to work anyway... I did do some homework and found these sites for some suggestions: ejmas.com/tin/tinart_fowler_0602.htmejmas.com/tin/2005tin/tinart_forbes_0105.htmlsayashi.com/project%20pages/koiguchi.htmThanks in advance for your input and suggestions on how to proceed with repairs :? Is this a reasonable solution? Best wishes, ~ Stick'em
|
|
|
Post by ineffableone on Apr 9, 2012 22:15:04 GMT
Those bands I think are for the middle of a saya I think not for the mouth of the saya. Typically buffalo horn is used for the saya mouth. Though metal has been used it is not a common choice.
|
|
|
Post by lamebmx on Apr 10, 2012 0:42:40 GMT
+1 on that, and you work the horn just like working wood.
If you are intent on using metal. You cant take some fishing line, and measure the circumference at the mouth. Take that and a little bit of work with pi and you can determine the diameter of a circle with that circumference. copper pipe is readily available and sold by the diameter. You can get away with the cheapest fitting that will provide you with the depth of ring you want. You might want to pick up a couple unless you dont mind driving back if you screw up. Now that you have fitting in hand, cut it to the depth you want, and tap it with a hammer to make it the proper oval. Take it slow, and if it starts to feel a bit harder, heat with a propane for a slight glow then let it cool and repeat. I dont know if an oven will get hot enough, and hopefully someone can chime in with ideas. Tongs and bonfire will work though. Or I just thought and am too lazy to go back over this, you can just clip the fishing line with precision and take it to the ace hardware or home depot of your choice. "I need a copper fitting in this circumference" they love stuff like that, its kinda like a working break.
|
|
|
Post by zentesukenVII on Apr 10, 2012 15:05:54 GMT
I use samegawa. Sand down/chisel the exterior of the koiguchi and fit a piece as big as you want around it. Make sure you soak it for at least 3 hours, then glue it in place with wood glue or some form of epoxy. I've done it on two swords with cracked koiguchi and it fixes them like a charm. Not to mention it makes a good grip for drawing and re-sheathing. Make sure you try and glue the crack together too.
|
|
|
Post by Adrian Jordan on Apr 10, 2012 23:58:59 GMT
Can you post a picture of the crack itself? That would aid in identifying the best course of action.
|
|
|
Post by stickem on Apr 12, 2012 2:46:45 GMT
Adrian ~ Ask and ye shall receive... Here is the Raptor's saya as viewed from the outside, inside, and top. If you click on the thumbnails, the images will get big enough so you can actually see it pretty well. The spit itself goes all the way through, as you can plainly see from these images. The crack measures 4cm in length on the outside of the saya surface. I do not have the tools available at the moment to measure the split length from the inside to confirm the split goes all the way through for the entire length of the crack visible from the outside surface. What would you suggest? Thanks again, ~ Stick'em
|
|
|
Post by Adrian Jordan on Apr 12, 2012 4:04:12 GMT
If you can, I'd fill the crack itself with some wood glue or epoxy first. Give it a good long while to cure. Then I'd either apply a partial rattan wrap or have a new koiguchi made. I love partial rattan wraps. Bull horn makes for a great and attractive koiguchi, but one made of metal may be better suited. Or, as had been suggested, you could apply some samegawa. With real samegawa, you can get a raw hide and soak it, then wrap it around the saya like one the tsuka. When it dries, it will shrink to fit the shape of the saya. It is extremely tough and provides a great amount of support. It would look something like this. Be careful to make sure there is room for the shrinkage, though. Wouldn't want to have it shrink too much and re-crack the saya. I'd get more explicit instructions from one of the customizers here before undertaking this particular option.
|
|
|
Post by ineffableone on Apr 12, 2012 4:14:22 GMT
Honestly I would suggest buying a new saya at that point, rather than trying to fix that crack. I am not sure if these would work but Swords Of Honor sells replacement saya for some of the Hanwei line. www.swordsofhonor.com/sword-blades.html?pg=1html=sword-bladesOr since you mention your decent with carpentry you could try making your own saya. You can use poplar wood, or buy the traditional Japanese hinoki wood. Fred Lohman sells some hinoki as do a couple other places. There is an explanation on making saya here www.scnf.org/saya.htmlThere are many videos and other tutorial web pages if you want to go with making a new one idea. I think you could end up making one for under $100.
|
|
|
Post by ineffableone on Apr 12, 2012 4:26:46 GMT
|
|
|
Post by Lobster Hunter on Apr 12, 2012 10:18:29 GMT
I see folks have made a lot of good suggestions. Buying a replacement saya is certainly the easiest solution but if you want to try fixing it without replacing the koiguchi, you could try using ray skin: sbgswordforum.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=swordcustom&action=display&thread=5708After gluing the crack shut, if you've determined that the opening is too narrow for the habaki, you'll have to file the inner walls down a bit. Most of the friction fit should be provided by the narrow sides that make contact with blade edge and spine sides of the habaki, not the wide parts that cover the "flats" of the blade. If you want to use just a small bit of ray skin to help reinforce the opening, I can send you a 2.25" x 9" strip, free of charge.
|
|
|
Post by stickem on Apr 13, 2012 4:43:26 GMT
LH ~ As they say in the gangster flicks, "You've made me an offer I can't refuse!" I'd be glad to reimburse you for postage; this is the least I can do to repay your generosity... BTW, what color is the ray skin? Since I've already ordered and payed for the metal koiguchi (which is non-returnable according to the maker, who happens to be a hilarious guy, BTW), I'll replace the split one with his metal one for the sake of structural stability, then wrap the rest of the crack in the surface of the saya to hide the remaining defect with your ray skin, and hence keep the crack from creeping further down the saya... brilliant! How should I go about getting you my contact info, LH? Should I send you a PM with it... or shoot you an email? Thanks again for doing me such a solid with the advice and materials. You've made this virgin repair job much less daunting... Yours on the path, ~ Jeff (Stick'em)
|
|
|
Post by Lobster Hunter on Apr 13, 2012 5:18:30 GMT
The samegawa is white. After making your 2.25" wide "trench" near the koiguchi, measure its circumference and mark the length & cut the skin while it's still dry, NOT when it's wet and pliable. It expands when it's wet. It should come out to be around 4" long. Don't worry about postage, the 9" long piece will fit in a regular letter envelope. PM me your mailing address. And as some gangsters say, 'forget about it!'
|
|
|
Post by Charl on Apr 14, 2012 7:14:28 GMT
Sorry to hijack this thread, but im going through the same thing at the moment! Refering to the maths of making a metal ring to go around the horn koigutchi and top of saya:
So if i take a piece of paper and measure the circumference of the saya to be at 112mm the diameter of the metal ring would end up being 36.5mm?
|
|
|
Post by Lobster Hunter on Apr 14, 2012 8:21:34 GMT
|
|
|
Post by stickem on Apr 14, 2012 21:52:53 GMT
No worries about being a hijacker I am delighted to have found a forum where people help each other so freely, and hopefully I can be of some small help to your situation to reciprocate the kindness of others. At the beginning of the thread, I showed some images of prefabricated koiguchis (rings/bands, whatever you wish to call them) and was lucky enough to find one which fits the dimensions of my saya exactly (44mm x 23 mm). What that tells me is the mouth of my saya is almost twice in length what it is in width, right? Meaning if I doubled the width (23mm), we'd come up with 46mm (which is approximately the same as the 44mm length-wise dimension I measured). This tells me the koiguchi/rings/bands and saya mouths are not circles. Instead each is an oval, which makes sense because we all know the blade itself that fits inside the saya is flat, and not round. So since we aren't dealing with circles, the usual equations we use to work with circles, like so: won't apply in this case of making koiguchis or bands to fit the saya (unless you have some bizarro saya that is really a circular cylinder, like the shape of copper or PVC pipe). So, I think the answer to what you are asking is, if you've used a piece of string or paper to measure the circumference of your saya, this sounds to me like the right method for measuring c. If c = 2 pi r Then 112mm = 2 pi r So r = 112mm/ 2 pi Which reduces to r = 17.8 Since the diameter = 2r Then 2 x 17.8mm = 35.65mm Which is the diameter of a circle with circumference = 112mm Which also is the same # Lobster Hunter came up with... Dunno if this math is helpful or not. But remember there is a difference between the inside diameter and the outside diameter of the ring, depending on the thickness of the metal to consider as well... My guesstimate is you probably could start out with a straight piece of metal measuring 112mm in length, solder the two ends together, and then shape it to conform to the mouth of your saya by heating it, beating it with a hammer, and so on. But the truth is I am not a metal worker who has any personal experience with doing this, so please rely on the input of someone else here with more experience in these methods if you decide to manufacture a koiguchi/ring/band yourself from scratch. Good luck with the project and let us know how it turns out. ~ Stick'em
|
|
|
Post by Charl on Apr 14, 2012 23:15:37 GMT
Thanks for the MAthematical help guys, That is the number I did come up with as well, I just needed someone to check my work!! I will be trying to find a copper fitting of the correct inside diameter at the hardware store today and use that to get the final result. If i cant find aything close to the inside diameter i need then ill be making one from scratch!
|
|
|
Post by lamebmx on Apr 15, 2012 3:34:02 GMT
come on man, you got the skills, just get the next size up, channel the says, wrap the ring and cut to fit, then solder it up. and yea, the math is triple checked for decent accuracy.
|
|
|
Post by Charl on Apr 15, 2012 7:55:42 GMT
Thanks for the vote of confidence Lamebmx! I will be doing this very soon. Just gotta buy a blowtorch!!
|
|
|
Post by stickem on Apr 17, 2012 3:59:22 GMT
Head's up: The koiguchi I ordered arrived today It is silver (90% silver/ 10% copper) and almost exactly correct in the dimensions of shape, width, circumference, and thickness as the FUBARed one I need to replace! Talkin' a-whisker's-width-close in every dimension... Amazed the maker pulled it off having never seen the original cracked saya himself. So, if anyone wants a koiguchi made for them, Fred Lohman is the guy to go to: katana4u.com/index.htmHe's an easy and funny guy to talk with on email as well, and wouldn't be surprised if he'd help you with any specific questions you have re: fabricating your own koiguchi: www.japanese-swords.com/mail/dd-formmailer.php
|
|
|
Post by Adrian Jordan on Apr 17, 2012 5:37:41 GMT
Lohman is well known for great work. I can't wait to see what you are able to do with the new piece.
|
|