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Post by Bushido on Feb 1, 2012 9:23:06 GMT
Hi everybody! I'm in the market for a cutting Jian, and I've contacted sinosword for a quote on a custom sword... Their prices are very humane, and the options are plentyfull. But what about the quality of the finished product? Anyone here with experience of this company and their swords? Any and all help/advice would be much appreciated! Regards, Anton. Edit: Go to page six for pics of the finished sword!  |
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Post by junon on Feb 1, 2012 11:57:58 GMT
their jian is full tang, so that's a start (compared to zhisword rat tail tang). not sure about finishing quality for jian; but the katana seems to be pretty nice. there are some reviews about jkoo/sinosword on this forum. if their jian is as good as the katana, then it would be a good deal. if you do order one, please post a review!  there is very little information about jian from them on the web... *the sanmei upgrade is very reasonable! be sure to check it out* |
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Post by Bushido on Feb 1, 2012 12:08:12 GMT
So I hear, and a full tang is an absolute must as this is going to be a functional sword rather than a display one. I've specifically asked for a durable cutter without frills as I don't want to pay a lot of extra money for visual stuff when it's performance I'm after. They do have a lot of upgrades and options, and the prices are very reasonable! I got a quote for the plain fitted Jian: www.sinosword.com/ProductShow/?p ... sword-Jian Options and prices are as follows: "T10 steel price is US$162 differential hardening price US$197 1095 high carbon Folded steel price US$201 with differential hardening price US$236 insert steel(no folded) price US$192 with differential hardening price US$228 " Seems extremely reasonable to me when you consider your other options such as the hanwei cutting Jian etc, as long as the quality is good it'd be a bargain for sure. The fact that they make you whatever you want for these prices is just unbelievable... I'm still thinking about the options, and I'm waiting for a recommendation of the strongest possible blade. A folded T10 insert steel blade (say 1045 or other soft steel for the core) with differential hardening is very tempteing at the moment, and if they agree that this would make for a strong blade then I'll probably order one like that. I will post a review if I decide to buy one, promise! |
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Post by Sir Tre on Feb 1, 2012 18:20:17 GMT
keep us posted on what you are buying and how it turns out
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Post by Bushido on Feb 1, 2012 18:39:30 GMT
Will do!
Still could use some advice as to the quality of the works of the sinosword company though:) Anyone done business with them? any opinions?
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Post by Bushido on Feb 2, 2012 10:11:54 GMT
Just wrote an email to the guys at Sinosword, designs are nearing completion and as soon as we make out a couple of small details concerning specifications and measurements and come to terms on payment options, shipping costs, during production follow up and progress reports (and of course clear the intial payment) they're going to start making my sword! So, what is it that I have "ordered"? The base of the design is this sword: www.sinosword.com/ProductShow/?p ... rged-sword I have then asked for the design to be simplified and minimalistic, removing all of the engravings and extra frills etc and giving it a blackened antique look. The blade will be a Sanmai laminated one with folded 1095 steel for the outer layers, and then differentially hardened. I have also asked them to give me a slightly thicker blade, closer to the 0.8cm thickness of for example the Twin Dragons sword than the original 0.7cm, for increased durability, and if possible a slightly heaftier Tang for the same reasons. Razor sharp edges of course, and for extra grip a black samegawa handle wrap. The finished result should look something like this: Only with visible hada and real Hamon. I think it looks badass, a properly dark and mysterious sword. Looks mean, an evil functional cutter! All of this in the sub $300 range! Ooh, this is very exciting... Attachments:
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2012 18:11:59 GMT
VERY cool! Did they mention a typical wait time?
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Post by Bushido on Feb 2, 2012 18:20:37 GMT
Thanks! 40 days of manufacturing, and it will be the longest 40 days of my life I reckon! I also reckon it will be so worth it in the end :mrgreen:
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Post by WEWolf on Feb 2, 2012 22:15:00 GMT
Congratulations in advance! May the time fly by!
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Post by Curgan on Feb 3, 2012 0:22:11 GMT
Their quality is pretty good for the buck. Communication is excellent, but be very specific about what you want. Make sure that there are no misunderstandings as they are not that good with english.
I 'd buy from them again.
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Post by Bushido on Feb 3, 2012 15:15:03 GMT
Thanks mate! I sure hope it will! :mrgreen:
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Post by Bushido on Feb 3, 2012 15:31:02 GMT
Sounds good!
Yeah, I've noticed. Very prompt responses, although I feel like they forget to answer part of the message so to speak :lol:
I've really tried to be specifik, specifying materials, lamination style, measurements, hamon style, POB and esthetics (or rather, they provided the pictures and I said "Good, make it look like that!" :mrgreen: ) etc. I think I got most of it covered. This is my order confirmation email:
"I would like to order the Antique blackened Jian With the Sanmai laminated steel blade, 1095 folded steel on outer layers, with differential hardening (straight hamon) and samegawa rayskin handle please. If possible I would like the blade to be slightly thicker than the standard 0.7 cm, closer to the 0.8 cm thickness of the Twin Dragons Jian for added durability would be nice. Full tang, and if possible I would like the tang to be thick and wide for increased strength. I also want the edge of the sword to be razor sharp, as sharp as sharp can be. blade length 78 cm, POB around 11cm from the guard, 18-20 cm handle (not including the guard)."
That should pretty much cover it, right? What I think is important in this sword is the blade and handling, and I think my spoecifications covers at least these aspects.
Update! I've just sent the payment for the sword, us$299 including shipping to a hotel in Beijing where my father (who is an airline pilot) will pick it up for me! they should get started on the blade anytime now! So excited! :mrgreen:
One thing I've been thinking about though, seeing as how I have been asked to review this sword once I get it... Is this information I should share with the company making the sword? I mean, I for one would want to make sure that my product is properly made if I knew that it was going to be reviewed... Who knows, it might just make them go the extra mile to make the sword great... On one hand, that might mean the information I get about their swords in general could be inacurate... On the other hand, I want them to make the sword as good as possible... On the other hand, I wouldn't want them to think that I'm "threatening" them to perform better than usual. It's a dilemma... What do you guys think? Would it be fair to the company or unfair to the public to inform the makers of the sword that I will review the final result and post said review on a respected sword community forum?
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Post by Bushido on Feb 9, 2012 15:45:16 GMT
Small update and initial impressions:
Received confirmation of received payment today, and was told that production will commence today as well. Not exactly lightning speed progress, but perhaps paypal payment to china takes some time to clear, I don't know. Never mind. What I do mind slightly is part of the contact. You see, I received this very long and incomprehensible email consisting of random letters and numbers from the company a day or so after I had made payment, and my attempts to shed light on this matter (Sent two emails asking what this email I had received was and if there was something wrong with it, or if it wasn't really anything I needed to be concerned with) went unanswered. Only today, five days or so later, did they contact me (not replying to my previous emails though, just a short confirmation of payment). So, initial impressions are that contact could be improved slightly.
Also, I've asked if it was possible to receive regular status reports on the progress of the sword (perhaps a picture or two showing how things are going etc), but these requests of mine have also gone unaswered. Instead, in todays mail of confirmation they let me know that "we will send pictures of the sword once it's completed". Oh well... Perhaps regular status reports on a custom piece is asking too much, I dunno... What do you guys think?
As long as they deliver a solid product these small things won't really matter, just thought I should mention them as part of the first customer impressions I'm getting from this company. Might be of interest to others thinking of dealing with this company.
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Post by Wes on Feb 11, 2012 3:59:31 GMT
I would be surprised if they delivered you regular status reports. Also expect the wait to be longer by a month or two. They may finish exactly on time, but from the experiences I've read and personal experience from the Chinese forges things always seem to happen in slow motion. Can't wait to see your thoughts on the end product. I've been dancing around buying a jian from them for years now.
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Post by junon on Feb 13, 2012 8:34:04 GMT
Hi Bushido, The pics of your sword (with blackened fitting) looks great. I got a question though; Sanmai lamination blade usually means hard core with softer steel on the skin (based on the discussion at swordforum a while ago - www.swordforum.com/forums/showth ... on-JiaGang)  so the choice of 1095 as the 'skin' in sanmei is kindda odd (should be 1095 for the core and 1050 for the skin?)... Anyway, I have no doubt about sinosword ability to make a beautiful and complex sword... A while ago Mr. Kane shared images of Han Jian he got in stock (I was in dicussion about jian discussing about sanmei lamination; he said he could do it and shown a recently finished project ; the feather grain on the steel seems to be twistcore method even though I'm not sure... It has been a while ago over skype chatting) Octagonal (8 side) blade:  Feather grain pattern (I think it's twistcore)  Looks very sharp!  Bushido, please do keep us update on the progress (the good, the bad)... There is little information available about chinese jian on the web and your review about sinosword product would certainly be a great service for chinese sword community! |
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Post by Bushido on Feb 13, 2012 10:45:46 GMT
Hi! To be honest, that is the same question that I have (but as of yet it hasn't been answered). Thing is, when I ordered the sword I asked what they would recommend me for a blade, and the recommendation I got was "sanmai lamination 1095 steel on outer layers". I'm assuming (or hoping rather) that they know what they're doing and will do the correct method of lamination (perhaps what they meant was that the outmost part of the blade, IE the edge, will be 1095?), bu I am worried. I've tried sending them an email to get these questions answered, but as of yet no reply. Contact is so so... I hope they know what they're doing, especially as this structure was their own recommendation. But you are of course right, the sanmai lamination in the picture is what I want. :? Wow! That sword looks absolutely stunning! Very beautiful indeed, the lines are so crisp and straight! I can only hope my sword looks even half as good, that would make me a happy bloke :mrgreen: Will do! I promise to give a thorough review at the end of all this, both good and bad and on both the product and the customer service etc |
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Post by junon on Feb 13, 2012 14:21:41 GMT
outer layer is the cutting edge, I believe. So it would be correct to use harder steel.
But to be sure, perhaps you should email him the diagram above to ensure the sanmei is done properly.
One thing I am looking for is a clamshell/apple seed geometry instead of diamond flat that's so common with production jian these days. So far only hanwei cutting jian and Arm & Armor jian got this profile.
it would be a real steal if sinosword can execute a full rayskin wrap on scabbard, clamshell geometry with sanmei folded steel and proper balance for under $400! (I'm asking for the blade profile now; hopefully they can do clamshell).
bushido, are you practicing chinese sword art?
how do you come up with the number (length, pob, etc)?
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Post by Parasanctus on Feb 13, 2012 17:30:44 GMT
I have a jian with clamshell profile being made by them. They said they were experienced at doing it for their katanas and have done the same thing to the jians. They even sent me a picture of different amounts of niku that they can do:  |
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Post by Bushido on Feb 13, 2012 23:03:45 GMT
I hope so... It would sort of make sence, since the "outer layer" could be the part of the blade which first comes in contact with the target and therefore would be the edge/core. But then again, outer layer doesn't sound like the core... Just to be safe I have done just that I wouldn't be surprised if they could do it at close to that price. For reference, my sword cost just under $300, and $30 of those were for the full rayskin wrap on the handle. So $400 for what you're asking doesn't sound impossible. Nope, I just practice various martial arts and swordsmanship in general and happen to like asian swords. I'm sort of in love with straight blades, and I'm very much in love with metallurgy, so a chinese Jian with a straight blade and a complexely folded and laminated blade hits the spot right on :lol: About the numbers, I simply provided my own meassurements and preferences and had them recommend me some numbers. I specifically asked for a quick and well handling sword, and based on that they decided on POB. For the lengths of the blade and the handle I simply told them how tall I am and how big my hands are and they recommended what length would be suitable for me. It's going to be very exciting to see if they got things right! I myself don't know all that much about chinese swords or how they are supposed to handle, so I let the ones with actual expertise on the subject set me up. Hopefully this will teach me a great deal about this sort of blade so that perhaps in the future I can decide for myself what numbers I like. |
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Post by HouShe on Feb 13, 2012 23:37:59 GMT
In correct sanmei construction, the harder part is sandwiched between two softer sheets. On a properly made jian constructed thus, you can actually see the difference between the steels (assuming the polish is sufficient). The harder steel definitely hits first.
The reason for having the softer steel on the outside is for shock absorption. The whole point between things like Hardening and Tempering, Differential Hardening, San Mei construction are all methods of various efficiency at achieving the balance between hard cutting edges and the ability to prevent the blade from shattering.
In san mei, the softer steel absorbed the vibrations from the edge and dissipates it. Hence, why the softer steel is always on the outside.
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there is very little information about jian from them on the web...
