Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2011 7:17:31 GMT
Hello, I am looking for a tough sword which can take a hell of a lot of punishment without anything becoming loose, or anything getting worn out and breaking. I am willing to pay up to 1-2 thousand dollars, though I don't want to spend that kind of money if it's not necessary. I need the strongest, most durable sword available anywhere, which is constructed focusing purely on durability and strength, and which doesn't rust or need to be maintained or polished. (preferably with a sword handle which is the blade itself, with no wood or attachments, and with a very strong cross-guard)
I currently own a very cheaply made (cost me $3 total, for the bolt and nut cross-guard) sword which I made myself, constructed of 2 different concentric hollow steel poles I picked up off the street (alluminium center, and probably cast iron outer pole) hammered flat while cold, on concrete. I left the hilt area un-hammered with black tape on it. A single bolt was drilled between the hilt and flattened part as the cross-guard. I burned it a bit just to make it look better, but it still looks very crude with thousands of marks from hammering it flat. You could barely call it a sword, but I like it. It is like a blunt heavy short sword, with a hilt long enough for 2 handed use. Its "blade" is 27-29cm long and 7mm thick and has absolutely no edge or tip whatsoever.
I want a sword which can cut through light steel and break cinder blocks without taking damage or shattering. I tested my current home-made sword on a broken computer, and cut it into small pieces by cutting through and breaking apart each chunk of steel and circuit board with repetitive strikes. The sword took almost no damage, except for a few minor dings (I was surprised.) This is my last sword, the one which has not broken yet, but I have been careful to not break or heavily damage it, because I cannot make a new one like it.
The type of sword I am looking for is a 1 handed short to medium length sword, with a hilt long enough for it to be used 2 handed. I plan to dual wield it with my current best sword mentioned above, because I love dual wielding. Weight is of no concern, but I don't want a long sword or a sword with a hilt designed for 1 hand. Though type does not matter too much, I like the shape of Medieval-type swords and Japanese-style Katana's the most. The thing I care least about is historical accuracy, I want something new, built to be tough, regardless of any sacrifices made to its appearance.
I have bought only one "real" sword in my life, 13 years ago, when I was 8 years old. It was the prettiest sword ever, but was so weak it looked like a mangled snake when I was done smashing it with my custom sword a few years later. I don't like having swords to look at if they aren't as strong as they look. From then I had the idea that all real swords were that weak, or they didn't exist. Then I found Sword Buyers Guide and realized that real swords didn't set when they were bent, or get dented as easily as fake ones.
I recently heard about Angel Swords being incredibly tough, but their swords cost like 20 thousand dollars each. I don't have that kind of money to spend on a sword at this time, though I do want to put all my money towards just ONE good sword which won't break, that is why I need your help. There must be some heavy short sword available somewhere that's very thick, and not so sharp that it loses its edge. Also, I don't know how real swords shatter, if I am hitting solid objects with one, should I be wearing a mask? I have never had to worry about that with my previous swords, they just bent and the metal eventually tore in half.
|
|
|
|
Post by Vincent Dolan on Sept 16, 2011 7:27:41 GMT
I'm going to leave this for a more experienced member, but I think you may have some misconceptions about what swords are actually capable of.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2011 8:09:24 GMT
Yes, I don't know how strong swords can get which are currently available for sale, but I do know for certain that it is not that hard to make a sword which is capable of what I described. I used to think swords were weak, but slowly realized that they didn't have to be that weak if people actually intended to make them strong, and not just have them to look at.
Swords were completely dropped as a weapon when guns arrived. Technology today is so far ahead of what it was 500 years ago, so you can only imagine what they would be capable of, if they had kept their sole focus on swords for military weapons.
|
|
|
|
Post by Vincent Dolan on Sept 16, 2011 8:24:42 GMT
Well, first off, 90% of swords aren't meant for bashing through cinder blocks (that's what a hammer's for!) and no sword throughout history was ever meant to cut through another sword; that's just Hollywood nonsense. Since that's not what they're meant for, that's not what they're built for. You wouldn't drive a car into a lake expecting it to turn into a sub because James Bond did it, right? Same principle.
|
|
|
|
Post by GUEST on Sept 16, 2011 9:23:30 GMT
I'm not going to give you any advise on swords, you have unreasonable standards. Just get a sledge hammer, you will hurt youself with a sword. There is no sword made which will do what you think it will do.
|
|
|
|
Post by Lukas MG (chenessfan) on Sept 16, 2011 9:24:04 GMT
OK, I honestly didn't make it through the whole post but one thing I can tell you right away is that you have to rework your image of swords.
There is no sharp sword in the whole world that will shatter cinder blocks without damage. Blunts, yes, but they not made for that either. Cutting light steel... hm, depending on what exactly you mean, good swords would probably get aways with some edge damage. The first time. Eventually every sword will fail. If you want to do that to a sword, fine.
You want a medium length blade with a two handed grip. OK, maybe the H/T bastard would suit you but that's a sword and not a crowbar or hammer so forget about the cinder block and steel cutting. If you're still keen on destroying swords, maybe pick up a DSA, that'll at least keep you busy for a few hours until you need the next one.
Seriously though, DSA are probably the most durable swords (OK, some of them are not really swords but they have at least the same shape) in the sub 300$ region so maybe you should take a look at that. As you don't mind the additional weight (DSA are overbuilt for stage fighting purpose) and don't require smooth cutting ability, a DSA should suit you.
If you want something japanese, I'd suggest a ko katana. Short blade, long handle. The tenchi ko katana is probably one of the toughest choices. Don't know if there's a Hanwei Raptor ko katana or a DF version. If they exist, any one of them would be as though as such a sword can be but no sword you could possibly get will withstand what you plan to throw at it. That should be clear.
|
|
|
|
Post by Theros on Sept 16, 2011 10:37:31 GMT
There are some some really tough sword like objects out there that can smash cinder blocks and be used to beat on volkswagons, while they may not be what most consider to be "real swords" a super tough beater sounds more like what your looking for than a historical repro or back yard cutter. There are a few companys around making overly beefy swords; Badger blades and starfire have reputations for being quite tough. I do not own a starfire blade, but they have been around for quite some time with a strong reputation. A Badgerblade was the first sword i ever bought and i can attest to the fact that its a monster, not to big but thick and tough, it survived my adolescence of "tree whacking" without any noticeable damage while i learned what to expect out of a more historically accurate sword. I still pull it out every now and then to split firewood when i have the urge to hit something, no way i would do anything like that with any of my other swords. As far as not rusting, i dont know of anyone making swords that are tough like crowbars in stainless, carbon steel is much stronger and thus much less likely to crack and break on you. in short, if you want a super tough sword shaped object, and care nothing about it handling like the weapons of our fore fathers then they may have what you want. However i would recommend you stick around for a while and read, you may find that s you learn your idea of what you want in a sword and what you want to do with it will evolve as you learn more. www.badgerblades.com/www.starfireswords.com/info/home.php |
|
|
|
Post by MOK on Sept 16, 2011 10:55:28 GMT
Hell yeah, I want a magic sword, too!  Well, it's not actually indestructible, but you could take a look at the Hanwei Banshee... But seriously, what you really want is a stainless steel crowbar. No sword - or any other weapon, at that - will survive deliberate abuse. You might as well be asking for a car that never needs to be refueled or maintained and will not break if you keep crashing into stuff. You should be wearing full body armor, as should everybody within several hundred feet. If a sword breaks in mid-swing, you'll have a pound or two of sharp steel flying in a random direction at a random velocity. That's the sort of scenario that can result in anything from no biggie through property damage to manslaughter. I am not exaggerating. PS. Have you considered getting a full metal mace or hammer instead of a sword? Honestly, that would seem to be more in line with your desired features. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2011 12:04:44 GMT
Hi DJK, With your criteria of being able to smash through cinder blocks and cut through light steel, there is indeed a weapon designed to do exactly this, and it does it effortlessly, only it isn't a sword - it's a warhammer! Check it out here: www.coldsteel.com/warhammer.htmlYou should see what it can do on the video! |
|
|
|
Post by Neil G. on Sept 16, 2011 12:51:41 GMT
I think you're going to have to readjust your perceptions as to what swords are. I'm sure if someone wanted to build a big ol' bruiser of a sword like object that is capable of whacking cinder blocks and striking steel you can do that, but you're going to have to give up three essential qualities that make a sword a sword - which are lightness, flexibility and edge. No sharp edge will stand up to that kind of use (or abuse) without rolling/taking damage. No sword that is capable of weathering constant smashing into cinder blocks will ever be lightweight enough to be wielded quickly and effectively, nor will it have any sort of flex to it. I think what you're looking for are the sword of blades made by YouTube user "Michaelcthulhu"... www.youtube.com/user/michaelcthu ... jm87jxO9z4 |
|
jhart06
Member
Slowly coming back from the depths...
Posts: 3,292
|
Post by jhart06 on Sept 16, 2011 12:56:37 GMT
I've owned Starfires and Badgerblades.. beefy weapons, but not possible to do any of the above. Not without making the smith want to smack you.
I hate to be harsh, but you need to take a step back from anime and fantasy films and find out what a real sword is before you want to purchase one. Or make sure you have your will written first.
|
|
SeanF
Member
Posts: 1,293
|
Post by SeanF on Sept 16, 2011 13:29:24 GMT
Such constructive and respectful answers, SBG I am impressed.
|
|
|
|
Post by Northern Wanderer on Sept 16, 2011 13:37:05 GMT
Sorry to say it bud, but these guys are right. some companies make damn tough swords, angelsword, DSA, the like. But they are tough FOR SWORDSA good sword can take a hell of a lot of punishment, as long it it is used in a context suitable for it, they were made for cutting flesh, bone, chain mail, and some even for armour. Truth is that in a real fight against an armoured opponent, even the best sword would come out looking like a steak knife, needing more than a good filing down and polish before they go back out into the field. All swords will eventually break under the circumstances that you test them in. I would second the option of a war hammer. I would also advise that you wear protective goggles, to shield your eyes from metal and rock splinters. As well as a mask to protect your lungs from dust, if you still intend to destroy cinder blocks Before you progress any further down the path to sword ownership, let go of what you think swords can do from the media, they cant do it. If you want a "beater", a heavy non historic sword then I would go with a Darksword, tough but not too expensive. Check this Vid of a test on the dark age sword Note that it doesnt cut through the steel, NOTHING CAN, what this demonstrates is how the sword will stand up to mistakes during cutting practice, such as hitting a stand, or nearby walls. You can get a darksword from the store on the main site, shipped free within the USA sbg-sword-store.sword-buyers-guide.com/darksword.htmlAnother option that would suit the integrated design that you specify would be a zombie tools Bone machete. www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=ZT002&name=Zombie+Tools+Urban+Bone+MacheteThese are relatively new, but are simple thick and heavy choppers. Please PLEASE heed the advice and stop smashing other swords and cinder blocks, We see enough sword related injuries already without that kind of thing. Observe (warning - blood and wounds) sbgswordforum.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=5150&page=1that was with a real sword, from a mistake in regular cutting. not a home made piece in what most swordsmen would consider abusive practice. I hope I didn't sound rude, but You need to step back and think. before you hurt yourself, or someone else. suitable materials for cutting would be bamboo, tatami, rolled newspapers around a wooden dowel, or bottles (sounds wimpy but you need a good edge and good technique to get them right) Look in the backyard cutting section of the forum to see what's being used and how - Knowledge is power. |
|
|
|
Post by Cole Chang on Sept 16, 2011 13:41:01 GMT
DJK - Ok, I'll try to take a stab at this too. I'm not an expert by any means, but I'll take a quick look through out history.
Now, a lot of this is based upon logic, conjecture, and maybe even a little fiction...
The first hand held weapons were probably crude maces...rocks tied to the end of a stick. After that probably came stone tipped spears. When spears could be yanked out of a person's hands, swords were invented. However, as armor improved from animal skins to hardened leather, to wood, to mail and plate, the sword became somewhat limited for a while. That's why in older movies about the medieval period, mounted knights always had a mace, warhammer or axe on their saddle. These were for other armored foes. Swords were typically used for unarmored, faster foes like archers, footmen, and the occassional peasant.
Even in the Asian side of things, things evolved similarly. Chinese foot soldiers were trained and armed with the dao and pudao which had shorter training curves and higher chances of hurting/killing armored foes.
Crossbows eventually made the plate armor less usable as a peasant with a crossbow could kill a mounted knight with minimal training. We saw swords getting thinner and lighter again as people wore less armor and relied more on speed.
What I'm trying to illustrate in a very round about way is that swords were never meant to cut through hardend objects. There were other more specialized weapons for that. There was this Mythbusters episode where they debunked the myth that swords could cut through other swords. A stainless steel sword broke on the rebound, but a carbon steel blade did not break.
Anyway, take another look at your requirements. And forget about the not rusting part. Every metal object requires some form of maintenance...especially if you're going to use it regularly.
I am interested in the Angel Sword site you mentioned. I looked them up. I didn't see a 20k sword on their site, but I watched that little video they showed. It figures that it would be a person with tons of money, and no experience at wielding a sword that would spend that kind of money on something he would never use! Still, I like some of their designs. Not very historically accurate, but I've always liked fantasy swords! Would I ever buy one? Probably not, but I'd be very interested if anyone on this forum had any actual experience with them!
Thanks!
Cole
|
|
|
|
Post by freq on Sept 16, 2011 16:49:18 GMT
Attachments:
|
|
|
|
Post by Anders on Sept 16, 2011 18:52:04 GMT
And I truly, honestly wish you the best of luck, good sir.
Should you actually find a sword like this, please let us know. I for one wouldn't mind one of those myself.
|
|
|
|
Post by mcapanelli on Sept 16, 2011 19:42:57 GMT
I really can't add to what's been said here. Pretty much everything I'd bring up has been covered. What I will say is this; It all comes down to what you truly want. If you want to hold on to your preconceptions of what swords should be, denying history and the knowledge of the good people of this forum, then that's really your choice and we as a collective of sword collectors, Martial Artists, and Cutting enthusiasts, will do our upmost to help you on your journey. Yet your short changing yourself in doing that. A sword is much more then you can ever realize. It's to my knowledge the only weapon built with one purpose in mind, designed from the ground up for it's deadly task. It was never meant to cut wood, water bottles, bamboo, cinder blocks, or even other swords. It was meant to rend flesh and bone. The techniques that evolved over the years at once change with as the weapon evolved and spurred the smiths to evolve it further. It is elegant, graceful, and deadly. I'll spend my whole life trying to master it and I'll never even come close, and I willing do so out of a love for the art and for my European heritage. I held preconceptions much as you do now once. Yet the passion that is HEMA inspired me to let go of my child's mind, to let go of what I thought I knew, and realize that in truth, knowing is a sign of not knowing much of anything. If you truly want to learn how to use a sword. If your willing to realize that what your holding on to is nothing more then fantasy formed by the pens of nameless and countless Hollywood producers and writers that couldn't care less about history or the proper use of a weapon. If your willing to lay down what you know and just know nothing, then you will see a world open up in front of you that you didn't see before. A world where masters of the art wrote down and expanded on techniques that they bet their very lives on. When they fought it wasn't a sparring match, it was for keeps. You'll see the truth of the weapon you hold in your hands and the elegance, grace, and power it can have in the hands of a truly knowledgable person. You can choose to be part of that heritage, part of a legacy that's spanned a thousand years and more. The choice is yours. Whatever your choice is, good luck on your journey. We'll all be here to help you as best we can along the way. You may not like some of the answers you get here, but we'll always be honest.
|
|
|
|
Post by Jakeonthekob on Sept 16, 2011 20:29:27 GMT
No offense man but you got too much into anime/hollywood crap. The real world does not work like how you think it does. Sure you can temper steel so that it can smash though concrete and cut through other steels but notice... NONE of those tools are swords!
Do more research about what swords are MEANT to do, not what you WANT it to do. There never was a sword meant to slice through tanks and buildings. Swords were meant to slice through flesh not industrial grade concrete. If you notice, if anyone does such extreme destructive testing/videos, they say it's REALLY DANGEROUS or they are just idiots who are looking to get hurt or hurt someone else. Swords cannot slice concrete, they will snap and the flying razor sharp piece/shrapnel can seriously injure a bystander or even kill someone, and that applies to the person wielding the sword as well!
Here's what good, durable swords (both Western and Asian) are meant to cut:
-Tatami
-Beach mats
-Wara/goza
-Bottles
-Bamboo (for people with more experience)
-Flesh (Please not anything living XD)
-Pool noodles
-Wooden Dowels (for people with more experience)
Also, I'd suggest that you spend $200 MAX on your sword. You'll only be harming your wallet if you buy a $2000 sword and break it within 1 hour of getting it. It just won't be a pretty sight... I would suggest perhaps the Hanwei practical Bastard sword for Western blades or the Hanwei Raptor katana for Japanese blades.
I'm sorry for the long post and negative tone but seriously... Do more research please! There are plenty of threads here that can help correct your misinterpretations and MANY members here who would be willing to answer your questions!
|
|
|
|
Post by nihontoman on Sept 16, 2011 20:42:05 GMT
Dude, have you tried to commission for a replica sword from Berserk? I'm sure that would be exactly what you're searching...
|
|
Sébastien
Senior Forumite
Retired Moderator
Posts: 2,967
|
Post by Sébastien on Sept 16, 2011 21:02:38 GMT
This seems like an entertaining thread, so I'll join it  DJK : Sorry if any offense was taken, I don't think any of us mean any harm. However, most of us have been around swords for quite some time and know what to expect from a sword that will be smashed through metal and concrete. Personnaly, I have heard that Busse Knives can easily chop through concrete, but these are knives, and they are usually sold for more than 500 $ each (they have a few 10'' + machetes, but these are in the 1k + price-point). If you go to Arizona Custom Knives website, you should find a few of these. However, if you do get a sword, here are two things to keep in mind .. They've been already said plenty of times but I'll type 'em again just for the heck of it ... -Swords aren't made to cut through metal and concrete. Any sword will break if it takes that kind of abuse. -If your sword breaks, it could hurt someone, you or a bystander. One more thing, and this is my personnal opinion, take it as such. It might be a bit shocking, so take it with some salt... Here goes ... If an accident happens and/or if others see and film you while your hacking through concrete and steel, I think you will be giving the sword-collecting community a bad name. Most sword-collecors/users on this forum advocate safe and responsible use of blades. Both to protect us and others from harm (swords are, in a certain way, continually loaded and armed guns), but also so that we don't look like dangerous fools to others. They are already plenty of dangerous sword-using fools on youtube, I suggest that you don't join them. My two cents on that. |
|
