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Post by tajima on Dec 29, 2007 1:15:37 GMT
I agree. This thread is out of control. I did not even see the original thing until Paul pointed it out in the "Negative Reaction" example that I realised how this small personal feud started.
I don't think anyone wants to be smited, and I do not want Rammstein to leave, and everyone has a right to their opinions.
In this thread, I thought it was a decent, hearty discussion about different styles with a generic title that is reflected as a basic metaphor. I do not think there was anything wrong with it, and it is a shame to think people would take it in the Negative way.
This thread deserves to be shut-down and sent to a high security vault before even more negative words are cast like stones unto a pond.
-Tajima
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2007 14:40:41 GMT
I'm doing my part right now. Brenno, Tajima, lukebailey, bloodwraith (jeez, the complaints kinda stacked up while I wasn't watching), and all the other fine forumites here at SBG, this Cap's for you. Thank you all for the kind admonition, and may I say, I feel better already, like I'm wearing new sneakers! (Never too old to learn!)*
chopchop, Ken, I've never read him, though I did try once. But after seeing "MAYBE Logic" featuring him, I'm determined to read Cosmic Trigger.
Ramm, I'm really trying to figure something out. It started with a book on Budo someone gave me years ago, and most recently has entangled itself with thoughts of Musashi's many adoptions. The question is: when did Budo begin? I understand there have always been elements of healing AND protecting AND killing, so is Budo just an emphasis of preference that was developed in relative times of peace? (I'd like to hear that it goes all the way back to our shamans.)**
*Taxes and service fees may apply. This offer may be rescinded at any time. Residents of Texas must pay a 12% sales tax. Offer not valid with coupons or other promotions. No substitutions please. Add shipping and handling.
**Update: Think I may have had Bushido in mind, rather than Budo? (Not sure of distinctions yet, except that Bushido may pertain to the warrior class, and Budo to the ruling?) In any event, Bushido seems at least as old as Japan herself.
Early history to 12th centuries There is evidence of Bushidô in early literature to suggest that the stylings of Bushidô have existed in the Japanese literature from the earliest recorded literary history of Japan. Kojiki is Japan's oldest extant book. Written in AD 712,it contains passages about Yamato Takeru, the son of the Emperor Keiko. It provides an early indication of the values and literary self-image of the bushido ideal, including references to the use and admiration of the sword by Japanese warriors. Yamato Takeru may be considered the rough ideal of the Japanese warrior to come. He is sincere and loyal, slicing up his father's enemies "like melons," unbending and yet not unfeeling, as can be seen in his laments for lost wives and homeland, and in his willingness to combat the enemy alone. Most important, his portrayal in the Kojiki shows that the ideal of harmonizing the literary with the martial may have been an early trait of Japanese civilization, appealing to the Japanese long before its introduction from Confucian China.
I guess there's nothing extraordinary or even exceptional about Musashi adopting those children, except maybe that he also had to travel with them! Still, I find it fascinating.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2007 15:39:48 GMT
Friends, Ronin, Countrymen!
Just did a search, which yielded the link below. It looks like it might not work from here, but it's for a book (2004) called Lone Samurai: The Life of Miyamoto Musashi. (Or google "musashi adopting" and see it 3d or 4th listing.) When I clicked on link, it connected to page 82 about an adoption. Then it started filling in the entire BOOK. I just finished 5 pages (re: 2 adoptions) and am going back for more. As for the adoptions, I couldn't begin to explain them here. I feel thoroughly undone, and strangely grateful.*
*Update: the above link didn't work, so I removed thanks to Tajima. And it will only provide pages 50-90 of this 200 page book. Still, there's plenty here.
Oddly enough, chopchop, the review picks up w/ the end of the famous 2d duel w/ Gonnosuke. You'll be glad to know that it apparently did take place, and that Gonnosuke seems to have taken the only draw ever from Musashi. How cool is that?!
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Post by tajima on Dec 29, 2007 20:34:23 GMT
Wow, four posts in a row, Lao! That's why they invented the Modify/Edit button...
But seriously, it seems the flames of war have dwindled...that is good that we may return to our peaceful (if not short lived) SBG discussions.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2007 21:23:06 GMT
Thanks Tajima, That cleaned up nicely.
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Post by tajima on Dec 29, 2007 22:02:57 GMT
Looks all the better. You are on your way to Grammarhood!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2007 8:14:44 GMT
I can't believe I missed this thread. I am gone for a few weeks and all hell breaks loose. Oh man, where do I even start?
Lets start with Ramm. It is clear he was making a strike at those who study JSA with his initial comment. If such an intent was not present then he would have simply stated that he likes to collect and "watch" rather than "do". But as we all know now, he felt it necessary to name belittle those who take their training seriously.
Chop, who we all know is proud of his dedication to JSA took offense to those comments and put in his two cents albeit in a less than warm and friendly way.
So, to Ramm, perhaps you can make an effort to refrain from making disrespectful statements in the future under the cover of "freedom of opinion". Just because you CAN do something, doesn't always mean you SHOULD.
Mr. Chop Chop, I can appreciate your passion, I am very much in the same boat as I take great pride in my training. However, I can rest assured that getting insulted by such statements is futile. Did you really think anything you said would help facilitate a change in opinion on his end? If the answer is no then you just wasted that many more minutes of your life trying to convince the un-convincable.
At the end of the day it is true we all have a right to our opinions, after all, it is the only thing in life we truly OWN. However, using our opinions to insult or belittle others is at the very least in POOR TASTE and if one has any respect for their fellow forumites they will decide that our opinions don't ALWAYS need to be expressed. There is value in silence.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2007 11:46:38 GMT
The question is: when did Budo begin? You are talking about it like it is a time frame budo is a state of being any human is capable of attaining, it is like a reassuring calmness that tells us to wait, there is no rush let your opponents eagerness be his downfall. However one must not focus on its attainment solely but train and devote your learning until your mind/body reaches the required level, it is like one of those distant stars at night, the more you focus on it the harder it is to see. Not everyone will understand or even wish to attain budo or Rei, however you only have to look on someone's face who has attained it to see the reward.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2007 11:52:42 GMT
Do not hold to budo and you will achieve it, hold to budo and you will never achieve it because you are focused on the achieving rather than the budo itself
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Post by rammstein on Dec 30, 2007 15:53:35 GMT
That wasn't my intent at all, however, I've defended my comment enough, so read whatever you like.
really and truly, I was referring to JSA, WMA, and anything else that involves swinging a sword and practicing the art of taking lives.
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Post by rammstein on Dec 30, 2007 16:03:39 GMT
I pointed out positives as well as negatives. My opinion on training was said pretty respectfully compared to how I could have said it. How's this?
"Training is the biggest waste of time I can imagine. It's wrong to take a life and training with a sword teaches one that - hence it is not acceptable in my books. No ifs ands or buts - swordfighting = wrong. I see no reason to stoop to the low level as others who feel the need to proove their masculinity by taking a sword in their hand and studying the "art" of taking a life. That is hysterical at best."
Obviously I don't feel that strongly, however, that is a very strong rendition of my feelings on the subject. However, my original comment noted full well that in many places, the comments were only my perceptions, judgements, and opinions about said arts. Unless you feel the need to insult my visual percepters, I think you ALL should understand that some people just have radically different opinions on the subject that, no matter how they are stated, will be offensive to your opinions.
edit:
Personally I found this comment by chopchop to be highly offensive:
It reeks of "my way is best, if everyone thought like me, the world would be better"
But I DIDN'T disect his opinion until now, yet you all feel the need to disect mine....
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admin
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Post by admin on Dec 30, 2007 21:08:13 GMT
Ramm: I think that posting that Japanese Sword Arts is essentially 'wrong' in the JSA sub forum is really not very helpful to keeping things warm and friendly... Call it irreconcilable differences between two viewpoints - but while it has been 'interesting' - I think it is time to put this thread to bed... THREAD LOCKED
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