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Post by Cole Chang on Jul 8, 2011 16:21:50 GMT
Yay, I can finally post! Anyway, I really wanted to start this thread because this is where I first read/heard about Jin Shi. I've posted this on SFI, so please forgive me for being lazy and pasting my post from there to here. Garrett has been great, and has patiently answered my questions. Now, I'm just waiting for some financials to turn over, and will likely be putting in my deposit in about a month or so. After that is the inevitable wait, and then, once I have the sword in my greedy little hands, I'll be sure to post a review with pics. --------------------- Just wanted to put this out there. I've been in communication with Garrett Chan from Jin Shi swords, and we've been talking about a made to order Xin Jian. I've been hearing good things about Jin Shi, and have decided to give them a shot. I'll be placing my order with Garrett within the month. The sword we're using as the base is the Xin Jian. I've attached a picture of the base sword from www.jin-shi.comAnyway, so far the specs are as follows: Total length: 36" Blade length: 28" Handle length: 8" Blade material: T10 tool steel with folded steel option Blade hardness: 50 to 55 hrc Fittings: Silver Weight: approx 2lbs I've also opted for some custom engraving, but we'll get to that later. So far the sword dimensions resemble the Hanwei Cutting Jian because I really like that design, especially with the hand and a half handle. I'm planning on doing a review here once I get the sword, but in the mean time, if anyone else out there has experiences they want to share, then please do! Thanks! Cole Attachments:
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Post by Cole Chang on Jul 13, 2011 18:34:14 GMT
Well, quick update on my own thread....
Looks like for now, I'm going to wait for my Jin Shi jian. Right now, Jin Shi can only do brass fittings on their swords, and I really really wanted something that was either silver or stainless steel coloured for my fittings, ie guard, pommel and on the scabbard. I really don't like yellow...sorry! Rather than trying to convince me to go with brass anyway, Garrett suggested that I wait until they can work that out. Classy guy!
Anyway, being a big Avatar The Last Airbender fan, I had an idea for the theme of my made to order sword. I don't know how many other fans are out there, but for those who do not know this show, I have to say that this is the best animated series I have ever watched, bar none. The story was excellent, the character design and development was excellent, and the action - which was motion captured from this kung fu master - was excellent. Everyone in my family, from my kids to my wife loves this show, and we were kinda sad yet exultant when the series finished. Then, about a month ago, just browsing the Internet, I learned that the creators were coming back for a short 1 season spin off/sequel to the original series. The new series will be called The Legend of Korra and it takes place about 70 years after the first series with a new Avatar. Yes fans, this means our beloved Aang the Last Airbender Avatar and all his friends will be dead in this new series! Still, the cycle has started anew, and Korra is the new Avatar, and she is from the Southern Water Tribe. Her challenge will be learning air bending from Aang and Katara's son and quelling an anti-bender rebellion.
Anyway, enough rambling. I got to thinking, I've always wanted to write an Avatar fan fic, so this idea hit me. Aang, being a monk, would have no use for swords. However, Korra, being from the Southern Water Tribe and probably would have known of Sokka - Katara's brother - the first sword master of the Southern Water Tribe, and may have an interest in swords. So, I've been plotting out a fan fic, mostly a discussion between Sokka, Zuko and Toph about creating a Sword of Elements for the Avatar line. There would have been playful banter amongst the characters about how Aang would never use a sword, and technically Avatars are masters of all the elements, so why would they want a sword anyway? In the end, Sokka would have conviced Zuko, Toph and Katara to create the sword using their bending. Zuko to provide the fire, Toph to use her earth and metal bending to fold the steel, and Katara to use water bending to temper the blade. They would present the sword to Aang, who would take one look at it, and say "oookay, it's nice but what will I do with it?" The sword would eventually never be used and will be stored in the Southern Water Tribe as a keepsake of the war that nearly destroyed the world.
Years later, Korra would find the sword and play with it often in her childhood, a key sign that she was the next Avatar. She would train with the sword as well as water bending until she turned 16 and was told that she was the Avatar - as per tradition.
The sword would be based upon the Xin Jian from my first post. Utilize silver fittings instead of brass, and have the symbols of the elements engraved on the blade, along with the yin/yang symbol on the guard. The scabbard and grip would be dark blue - to signify that it was created in the water tribe. As this is technically crossed the line to fantasy, the jian would also have a longer handle - hand and a half - for two handed use as needed.
Anyway, sorry for boring you all with that, but I just had to get that off my chest!
Thanks for listening...er reading!
Cole
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Post by Vincent Dolan on Jul 13, 2011 18:52:28 GMT
Actually, Legend of Korra has 26 episodes planned so far. That's short in comparison to the original, but still a decent size for a series; plus, who knows how long it'll go for. It was originally planned for only 12 episodes, after all.
You've got a really nice idea for a jian, though. But wouldn't a lighter blue be more significant to the Water Tribe? Excluding pants, most clothing and items of both Northern and Southern Water Tribes are done in a Royal to Light blue color with the occasional light/medium purple (Yue's under gown, Gran-Gran's coat). And I'm not just saying that because my design Ithin has a Ming Jian hilt with silver fittings (rhodium, in universe) and midnight blue wood, though that's part of it.
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Post by Cole Chang on Jul 13, 2011 19:04:23 GMT
Actually, I was basing that dark blue on some images I found on the net. Air is often presented in a light blue, and the blue for Water is darker. Still, you have a point, and when the time comes, I'll try to see what shades Garrett can do.
Glad to see someone else who likes Avatar. Personally, I can't wait to see the new show. Apparently, they're also releasing comics/graphic novels to tie the old series with the new one. Still some unanswered questions from the first series.
As for the episode count...26 is still too little! Thanks! Cole
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Post by Vincent Dolan on Jul 13, 2011 19:10:37 GMT
That'd be the best way to go about it. I may have to go with a paint for my actual replica of my design since I'm not sure how many stains there are that could produce a consistent midnight blue on wood. In my case, the blue is meant to represent the night sky while the rhodium fittings are the stars; Ithin means "crescent moon", after all.
Avatar is one of my favorite series, despite it being meant for kids (originally, anyway). It was the first series of any kind to portray the Chinese martial arts (other than Wing Chun, which is used prolifically by Jackie Chan and Jet Li in their movies) in a realistic manner, i.e., no flying through the air or dancing on bamboo branches like in wuxia. If you took out the bending and compensated, you'd have something with the first realistic depiction of CMA.
From what I hear, those unanswered questions, such as with Zuko's mother, are to be answered in the new series in the form of flashbacks, which could be why the series is being extended so much.
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Post by Cole Chang on Jul 13, 2011 19:37:01 GMT
I had hoped originally to do more customizations. For example, I wanted the pommel to be circular and basically the yin/yang symbol would take up the entire pommel. The guard would have been a centre point for my fan fic...
Zuko, prefering the duo dao, would want the sword closer to his preference. Sokka, having trained with Han style jians, would want something like that. In the end, Toph would ignore both and just make her own version that was completely different than either and would likely model the guard after a jian from her parents' home. She scoffs at the idea of swords, and can't believe she let Sokka talk her into this project!
In a way, Avatar was like the Harry Potter (finally finished!) of the Nicklelodeon world. Originally targetted for kids, but loved by all. When I first started watching it, I didn't have high hopes. I thought it would be just another Japanese anime redubbed and rescrubbed...I'm ok with that having grown up on that stuff as a kid. However, Avatar literally blew me away!
BTW, I gotta ask...who was your favourite character? Mine was Zuko.
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Post by Vincent Dolan on Jul 13, 2011 20:01:33 GMT
A circular pommel like a Euro wheel or the disc pommel like on Han jian? Either way would work. By the way, if you want to see an interesting way of recombining Chinese swords with others, take a look at my sword designs (link's in my sig); there's Ithin, Aelfwing (particularly the final design on page 2 or 3 done by fellow member MOK), and Harvey's sword. All are from books I'm writing.
:lol: That would be funny to see, especially since Toph can't!
That's a definite comparison and one I hadn't thought of. I remember hearing about Avatar a little before it came out. At that point, I didn't really have any hopes for it because was being made in America, so it'd be a show for 10 year olds full of slapstick and fart gags. Imagine my surprise when right in the opening they mention things like a century old war that's engulfed the world begun with the genocide of an entire people.
Tough call. My three favorites are Zuko, Iroh, and Toph. I never really cared much for Aang, to tell the truth, because, despite being 112, he's still got the mindset of a 12 year old, which leads to a lot of whining, or so it seemed to me (though luckily that drops off quite a bit after the first Book and is mostly nonexistent in the third).
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Post by Sir Tre on Jul 14, 2011 3:59:02 GMT
i have the actual sword from your pic u posted... the old production jian. it is awesome... more of a side sword that combat sword. it feels ligt as feather and quick as lightning, i want a custom myself based on the rodell hanwei model with some custom mede brass fitting myself let me know how yours goes.
ps is this cole from you tube..
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Post by bloodwraith on Jul 14, 2011 7:04:35 GMT
I would advise caution with custom pieces from Jin Shi. This is nothing against Garrett but I did receive a blade from him last year (it had not gone through his QC but was shipped directly to me to save me some money) and it was a little disappointing. The measurements I had requested were not followed, the lacquer on the scabbard and handle were not what I requested and looked like someone had used thick house paint which went all over the fittings instead of being a beautifully lacquered deep green. The fittings were only held on by the paint itself and the twistcore blade was unfortunately "laddered" in places and there was movement in the handle when swung.
Garrett being the stand up guy he is paid for the return of the blade to himself and refunded my money. The sad thing is that had the piece been what I asked for it would have been the most beautiful blade I had ever handled and I never would have let it go. This is not a warning about doing business with Garrett as he is a stand up guy and he and I exchanged many emails since the inception of his business. If you go outside of the basic options make sure your blade goes through Garrett before it comes to you to save yourself any disappointment. I would absolutely buy from Jin Shi again, I'd just be more careful next time.
I sincerely hope this helps and doesn't colour your opinion of Garrett or his company
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Post by Cole Chang on Jul 14, 2011 9:57:02 GMT
I'll definitely update this thread as I find out more. For now, as per Garrett, I'll wait for the silver fittings. And no, I've never posted on Youtube before, and probably never will. I'm camera shy!
Bloodwraith: Actually, all the comments about Garrett's honesty and trustworthiness is the tipping point that made me want to contact him. I'll take your advice though and keep that in mind. Thanks!
Just a quick word about the people who deal at the beginning side of the sword business, ie: Manufacturers, and the people who deal directly with the manufacturers, people like Garrett Chan, Sonny Suttles, Christian Fletcher, Angus Trim, Brendan from Fableblades. They are all quite amazing people. I've exchanged emails all of them at one time or another, and I've always gotten this feeling that I would like them as people, and just because the're in the sword business.
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Post by Cole Chang on Jul 26, 2011 19:17:10 GMT
Ok, update and question for anyone reading this thread. Garrett and I have gone back and forth, back and forth, back and forth...seriously, if I were him, and I had a customer as needy and whimsical as myself, I'd cry!
Seriously.
Ok, I stopped by my local sword retailer today as they got in a couple of Hanwei Cutting Jians. The HCJ was my first choice for a jian, and I just had to see it in person before deciding once and for all which way to go. Anywa, I was somewhat disappointed in the HCJ. First of all, it was not sharp. You'd think that with a name like "Cutting Jian", it would come sharp enough to cut paper. Sadly not. The bottom 1/3 was dull, and the top 2/3 had an edge that felt kind of rough when I ran my finger lightly along it. The steel fittings, which make it look so attractive in pictures, actually detracts from the overall beauty. I'm starting to think that having brass fittings would look better after all. At least with brass fittings, there is a clear aesthetic distinction between the blade and the furniture, and the blade stands out better.
The question I have for anyone with a HCJ, or any jian is this: how big around (circumference) is a typical jian? To me, the handle on the HCJ is HUGE! The specs say that the handle is 8 1/2" long and it implies that that includes the pommel. But, holding that in my hand, it felt as if it were 8 1/2" PLUS the pommel. Also, the handle was really big around. It kinda reminded me of the handle from a katana. Yes, the tapering of the handle towards the guard made it easier to hold, but it still felt somewhat uncomfortable. I have a bastard sword from Windlass, and the handle is much thinner and easier to hold. My practical jian from Hanwei is also much thinner too.
Before anyone asks, yes, I have small hands, but does what I described seem right? Would I have a similar problem with the Jin Shi jian?
Thanks! Cole
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Post by Vincent Dolan on Jul 26, 2011 20:19:20 GMT
I'm not an expert by any stretch of the word, Cole, but in my reading on jian (and swords in general) is that the bottom 1/3 is usually dull; mainly, I've read that this is because some practitioners aren't as careful as they should be when whipping around a sword during forms practice, so it cuts down on accidents. But what I believe holds true for swords in general is that the bottom 1/3 is what you parry with, so even though you parry with the flat of your sword, it doesn't need to be paper cutting sharp (which could actually be a detriment in case of an "oh, semprini" parry, where you accidentally use the edge). Mind, that's just the conclusion I've come to from my reading and may not be the exact reason. As for the rest of the edge feeling rough, how rough are we talking? We talking rough as in sturdy or rough as in uneven? If it's the latter, I've repeatedly heard since I joined SBG that Hanwei's edges on their Chinese and Euro swords is somewhat hit and miss.
With regards to the grip, I can't say, having never handled a jian, but looking at Opferous' review of the CJ wherein he compares it to the Hanwei Damascus Jian (which I think of as being typical as far as proportions go, at least, based on the production jian available), you can see that the CJ is significantly wider, if not thicker, than the DJ. With that in mind, it may not be that it's too thick for you rather than too wide. If the Jin Shi is about the same size as the HDJ, I don't think you'd have a problem, but again, that's just my own musings.
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Post by Cole Chang on Jul 27, 2011 13:18:23 GMT
Thanks! I posed the same question (among others) to Garrett. Let's see what he says!
Cole
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Post by ineffableone on Jul 27, 2011 19:10:08 GMT
Just a point here, it might be your retailer ordered the jian unsharpened and sharpened themselves? Yes the handle does seem longer than the typical jian handle, my guess is it is made for the larger Caucasian hands being Scott Rodell is a white guy. A lot of jian have very short handles, the HCJ seems more a hand and half to two hand jian. If you are interested in buying the HCJ I suggest you check the prices at www.sevenstarstrading.com/html/hanwei/cuttingjian.html Who advertise CAS/Hanwei List Price: $399 Our List Price: $279.99 If I remember correctly Scott Rodell is involved with Seven Stars which is why they have a lower price. Anyways hope things work out for you and your jian.
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Post by Cole Chang on Jul 27, 2011 19:24:58 GMT
My local retailer was going to let me have it for $300 all in. I've never been so tempted in my life! But, I made a deal with my wife to only get one jian, so I had to be very picky. Pinning my hopes on Garrett now!
Cole
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Post by Sir Tre on Jul 27, 2011 23:08:47 GMT
the xin jian that i have has a symetrical handle that should do well for your small hands
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Post by Cole Chang on Jul 27, 2011 23:14:03 GMT
Thank you! Did it come paper cutting sharp?
Cole
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Post by Cole Chang on Aug 3, 2011 18:03:01 GMT
Another quick update...this is becoming more of a journal, eh?
Ok, I've committed and I've sent Garrett a paypal payment.
Final specs are:
Total length - 36" Blade length - 28" Handle (including pommel) - 8" Weight - approx 2lbs Steel type - folded steel Fittings - Brass Scabbard and grip - dark blue rayskin Engravings - yin/yang symbol on the guard, Avatar The Last Airbender element symbols on forte
Thanks! Cole
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Post by Sir Tre on Aug 10, 2011 15:16:53 GMT
very sharp. make sure garrett knows you want a sharp sword tho. one of the gus on here ordered on blunt on purpose for training. he can make them either way. the apple seed geometry is outstanding in the cuts. if you have facebook check this out www.facebook.com/video/video.ph ... 0821134869
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Post by Cole Chang on Aug 12, 2011 12:12:59 GMT
Thanks for the reassurance! I did request that it be sharp. I don't envision myself doing a lot of cutting, but I'm looking forward to comparing it to Hanwei's Practical Line. I know it'll be like comparing apples to oranges, but something Garrett said before strikes a cord. A lot of people are under the misimpression that the wushu type jians out there represent the style of actual jians. I'd like to compare the differences. Sigh, now comes the wait!
Thanks! Cole
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