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Post by ineffableone on Aug 12, 2011 21:56:16 GMT
I am pretty sure if you requested sharp you will get sharp from Garret. Swordsage's review of his Jin Shi Han Jian said his was sharp Garret is totally right that the wushu jian are a total misrepresentation of true jian for practical use. Wushu is a competitive performance art/sport/dance with little left of real martial skill involved. Because of this wushu jian have become impractical for actual combat. Hopefully you can give us a ful review when your Jin shi jian arrives along with some pictures to drool over.
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Post by Cole Chang on Aug 13, 2011 12:48:36 GMT
Count on it! I'm excited and can't wait! The sword should come Nov/Dec and maybe I'll have an early Christmas present!
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Post by Cole Chang on Jan 16, 2012 14:04:00 GMT
Ok....after months and months of waiting...I finally got the notice that my sword has shipped! Yayy! I can't wait to see it. What was supposed to be a Christmas/Birthday present to myself has turned into a New Year's present! No matter! Anyway, here's a few shots of the sword as sent to me by Jin Shi. Inspired by Avatar: The Last Airbender, and the soon to be released Avatar: The Legend of Kora, this sword is hereby dubbed: The Sword of Elements. For those who are unfamiliar with the show, the elements are in order: Water, Earth, Fire, Air. You'll see that the order of the engravings on the first side of the sword are actually out of order. That's ok. It's my fault I think. When I sent the pictures to Garrett, I don't think I specified the order that the elements were supposed to go in. Definitely my oops! Anyway, from the first pics, the sword looks amazing. The folded lines are clearly visible. Arghh...I can't wait to have it! :lol:
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Post by Sir Tre on Jan 16, 2012 15:03:09 GMT
awesome etching bro... garrett up to par as usual
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Post by ineffableone on Jan 16, 2012 16:54:10 GMT
very nice, can't wait for you to be able to hold such a beauty
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2012 17:45:21 GMT
Lookin' good! Can't wait to hear how it handles.
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Post by Sir Tre on Jan 16, 2012 21:04:05 GMT
if is based on same specs as production model... it is like a lightning charged feather
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Post by Cole Chang on Feb 1, 2012 10:54:25 GMT
The sword came in last night. In a word....beautiful. I'll try to get pictures and a review up when I have more time.
First impressions...comparing this to the Hanwei Cutting Jian....like night and day. The Xin has a stiffer blade and I can actually wrap my hands around the grip! Still feels a bit heavy but I probably just need to work out more!
Cole
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2012 20:21:01 GMT
Looking forward to some more impressions. Jin Shi has actually discontinued this model. But I guess they're also developing something very similar with higher-end fittings. (That's in addition to the Han, Tang, and Fei Long Jian they currently make.)
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2012 20:49:36 GMT
More likely, the sword itself is overweight. If a jian is not meant to be historically feasible, then weight and balance become irrelevant. However, most (if not all) production jian on the market make some claim to historical feasibility, which is often marketing nonsense. Weight and balance are the most basic starting points -- if a producer can't get those two things right, none of the window-dressing matters. A jian should not weigh more than two pounds. Some production jian tip the scale by a half pound or more, which is a huge variance. A jian's CoG should be within the range of 5-6 inches -- I tend to be more forgiving if a modern piece tips within an inch on the short side, less so on the long side. Dynasty Forge has two jian that seem to meet the basics for weight and balance, though I haven't verified their numbers. Huano Forge also seems within a feasible range with their Royal Peony line.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2012 19:20:40 GMT
That's a pretty big assumption, and a few smaller ones there as well. First of all, how can you say it's too heavy without actually knowing the weight? A typical Jin Shi jian of this size hovers at right around 2 lbs, maybe an ounce or two more. Of course it's going to seem heavy compared to a feathery wushu sword or a light wooden practice sword, especially considering a historically accurate balance point on the blade. Garrett has an extremely good reputation for historicity in a number of ways, including blade geometry, weight, handling, etc. It is clear to me that you are not at all familiar with anything about this manufacturer or his product. I also think it's a little strange to say that a jian should not (without any qualifiers) weigh over 2 pounds. I am not an expert, but looking at facts such as how a qualified person such as Scott Rodell uses jian over 2 pounds, and in fact DESIGNED a jian over 2 pounds, would tend to make me question an assertion that you shouldn't from someone who I do not know and whose only visible qualifications are 9 posts on this forum.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2012 20:30:27 GMT
I tend to doubt numbers that are stated as 'approx. 2 lbs' -- one pound is 16 ounces, so what does 'approx.' 2 lbs mean? Maybe 2.5 lbs? Be specific.
I'm not going to fault you for not knowing me, but I have thousands of posts in larger and better known forums that you probably don't visit. SBG is very small, and I like it that way, but it is illogical to assume that my post count here implies a lack of historical knowledge.
As for Scott Rodell, he is paid to design swords for mass producers, though he himself explicitly stated that 2 lbs is the well-established historical average, along with CoG in the 5-6 inch range. Unless you are naive (I won't make that assumption, yet) you must realize people can be paid to do and say things they don't necessarily believe in. Adam Hsu (whatever his credentials) endorses Hanwei's two-handed jian, though very likely he knows such things didn't exist historically. For him, it's a paycheck.
If you truly want to know history, you do the research (hopefully not on Wikipedia); you check different sources; you note similarities and discrepancies; you verify what others claim. When you've done the homework, you can make educated conclusions.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2012 20:54:56 GMT
Alright, this should make it easy... Why don't we just ask the owner how much the sword weighs exactly? All reports I have heard relay that the standard model this one was based on are 2lbs, give or take 1 or 2 oz. It would probably be a wiser course of action to ask that question before assuming that the only possible reason a sword can feel subjectively heavy is because it weighs too much. Personally that seems like a wild claim to make when you don't have those specific facts.
I have no problem with your post count necessarily, but I do have a problem with unqualified claims of fact. Just now you said that a jian should be between 1.5-2 lbs (which I generally agree with), and that it should NEVER be above 2 lbs (which is a little more subjective). Now you post something saying that Scott Rodell agrees with you, and that a jian's average weight should be 2 lbs. Now wait a second, if the minimum weight is 1.5, doesn't it follow that if 2 is the average, the other end of the spectrum is 2.5? I would agree with you that it would probably be too heavy, but the examples you're relying on simply don't support the claims you're trying to make. Either way, from what little I know, it doesn't seem like a 2 lbs 2 oz sword would be an utterly ridiculous proposition.
I can't really speak for Adam Hsu, but a cursory Google search brings up several results for historical usage of 2-handed jian... Even besides that, it's a little irresponsible to say without qualification that there is no such thing as a historical 2-handed jian considering swords from the Han dynasty.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2012 21:15:51 GMT
A few points here --
I never stated conclusively that your sword is overweight. I said it is likely, which means a possibility, not a statement of an absolute, which is your assumption, not mine.
Where did you get 1.5 lbs from? That's not a number I specified. I said a few ounces under. A half pound is 8 ounces, which is more than a few, IMO. If a jian weighed 2 lbs 2 oz, I would consider that acceptable. Eight is four times two, so the difference between 2 ounces and 8 ounces is not insignificant.
Did I say "Scott Rodell agrees with me?" No, I did not. Scott Rodell posted his statements over at SFI. You can do the search on your own, since it's not my responsibility to do research for you.
And no, there is no such thing as a two-handed jian. Those long double-edged swords from the Han Dynasty were just long double-edged swords. They were not jian.
In an empirical discussion, the burden of proof is upon the person who asserts that something exists, not the person who asserts that something does not exist. If you say there are flying elephants, then the burden of proof is upon you.
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Post by ineffableone on Feb 2, 2012 21:16:58 GMT
Umm you do know the aprox 2 lbs was posted from before he ordered the sword. Why aprox, because there might be small fluctuations in weight from sword to sword. For you to immediately jump to the conclusion that means it might weigh 2.5 lbs seems a bit naive as to how the custom sword world works. When ordering a sword you don't know the exact weight but ask for a target weight which they try to get as close as possible to.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2012 21:19:06 GMT
With regard to customs, I'm aware of the inevitable variances. I've been ordering customs for a decade.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2012 21:21:38 GMT
Except I never said the sword weighs 2.5 lbs. I was referring to some production swords that actually do weigh 2.5 lbs. Clearly you did not read my post, or you read it quickly and managed to draw the wrong conclusions.
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Post by ineffableone on Feb 2, 2012 21:26:55 GMT
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Post by ineffableone on Feb 2, 2012 21:33:32 GMT
From Long Handled vs. Two-Handed Jian thread at forum.grtc.org/viewtopic.php?t=511From Top to Bottom: Blade- 46.75" (118.5 cm.), Sword Overall - 65.25" ( 156 cm.), Approx. 6 lbs. (2.75 kg.) Blade- 32.25" (82 cm.), Sword Overall - 42" ( 107 cm.), 2 lbs. 12 oz. (1.26 kg.) Blade- 30.5" (78 cm.), Sword Overall - 40" ( 101.5 cm.), 2 lbs. 2 oz. (.97kg.) *edit to add weights
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2012 21:34:31 GMT
Well, for one thing it's not even my sword... For the record, I do not even own anything from Jin Shi, so my hat is not officially in this ring (although I plan on rectifying that at some point). I can assure you that we are reading your posts (although I am wondering how much that honor is being returned), and you are saying a lot of things that perhaps insinuate things you never meant to say. If you would like to mince words and say that swords regularly referred to as jian are not properly called jian, then I suppose you're allowed to. You've just come into this conversation with a lot of assumptions and pride, and perhaps you're warranted to them; like I said, none of us (or very few of us) know who you are, what your expertise is, etc. But it's pretty obvious to me that this conversation isn't going anywhere.
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