Sébastien
Senior Forumite
Retired Moderator
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Post by Sébastien on Mar 23, 2011 21:25:12 GMT
I think it will be an interesting test to see, can't wait to see who will bite the dust first ![:P](//storage.forums.net/forum/images/smiley/tongue.png)
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Post by Don Boogie on Mar 23, 2012 11:24:51 GMT
Hmm,but still:p like the old saying say's,never bring a Knive in to a gun fight
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Post by freq on Mar 23, 2012 12:17:13 GMT
i heard it was "bring a knife to a gun fight stab them whilst they are laughing" :lol:
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Post by Don Boogie on Mar 23, 2012 14:12:19 GMT
Yeah but, if you only got a knife and all the other "Bad Guy's" got gun's like an AK-74 or other assault rifle's,you stand little chance:p unless you have some sort of spring knive the Spetsnaz had,i believe they had a knive that could shoot out
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Post by ineffableone on Mar 23, 2012 15:33:29 GMT
a decent video tackling the gun vs knife debate
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Post by Arwyn on Mar 30, 2012 4:52:35 GMT
Good video overall, although the shotgun comment is incorrect. At close range there isnt any "spray". Shot patterns at close range are very tight, and don't start opening up until 10 or 15 feet from the muzzle, and are only a couple of inches out at just past 20 feet or so depending on the choke. It is however, brutally effective at close range if you hit. The rest of the comments are pretty accurate though. I took my knife fighting class from an ex-green beret/delta operator and his opinion was that if you have the gun AND you can react immediately, the knife loses. Every time. However, most stabbing occur because people hesitate, and an opponent can cover a surprising amount of distance in just a second.
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Post by Larry Jordan on Apr 6, 2012 3:48:18 GMT
Our experience for dispersion is 1" for each yard traveled: 5" pattern at 5 yards 10" pattern at 10 yards 15" pattern at 15 yards At 15 yards one begins to worry about strays. Such is true for my two factory Rem 870s. However, Vang Comp shotguns are remarkably tighter!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2012 5:39:05 GMT
"ineffableone" I think you are right that gun is the best option to use as a self defense rather than knife, since you can quickly fire it to an opponent even on a distance while knife you can hit your opponent in a near position
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Post by Reaver on May 13, 2012 0:39:58 GMT
if I had the knife, as I was charging, I'd shout "LOOK OUT BEHIND YOU!" to give myself even more of an advantage since it throws off their threat perception. If I had the gun, backpedaling or sidestepping probably wouldn't give you enough time to clear the holster, so disregard the gun and shoulder charge. When he's on the ground, draw and shoot him.
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Sam H
Member
Posts: 1,099
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Post by Sam H on May 14, 2012 1:01:06 GMT
Have you had ANY training with either a knife or a firearm?
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Post by Reaver on May 14, 2012 2:28:52 GMT
no official training with a knife, though I am very familiar with them. guns though, lots. most of my spare money goes towards buying .45 for my SA loaded, for practice and IDPA. I've done competitive air rifle, though that doesn't really count for much, shoot skeet with a 12 ga for kicks, and mess around with .300 win mag every now and then (ammo for that is EXPENSIVE).
Have you?
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Sam H
Member
Posts: 1,099
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Post by Sam H on May 14, 2012 5:07:21 GMT
Quite a bit of knife training in martial arts, specifically through my sensei while studying karate.
I've also had lots of experience with handguns. While I don't shoot competitively I do shoot a lot through my 1911 as well and reload for it since its a lot cheaper than buying factory ammo. I know that I can draw from an IWB holster and double tap to the center of mass of a human size target at 10 yards in 1.3 seconds - consistently tested on a shot clock. I know the guys who do shoot competitively can draw and shoot much quicker than that.
In a situation of a guy drawing a knife and rushing me I'd be taking evasive maneuvers while drawing and shooting. I've practiced drills of dodging side to side, backwards, backwards to the left, back and to the right etc... taking cover and firing from cover, drawing and firing while moving etc.
I've also been taught how to shoot tactically by my father who was a member of and held the rank of Captain in the Lao-Hmong mercenary forces that fought alongside the US forces in Vietnam. He specialized in sniper/counter sniper and recon so his actual tactical defensive/offensive shooting was probably not up to par with someone who would have been trained for that sort of thing but I do know he saw more combat hours than most American soldiers did during his time in the war. So while what he taught me may be outdated and not as good as what your modern infantryman might learn I'd say its a good deal more than what your average joe would know. I'm 35, soon to be 36, and I've grown up shooting since I was 5.
I'm actually surprised that since you shoot IDPA you'd say you would prefer to use a knife over a gun unless you knew something about yourself and your technique that we don't know. Personally I wouldn't take a knife over a gun unless the gun was inaccessible to me. With the advent of CCW in my state I carry my sidearm with me constantly - even at home. I practice with it daily and if I'm not at the range I'm dry firing. Draw, aim, shoot. Change positions and repeat.
Honestly though if you don't trust yourself with a gun more than you would with a knife why carry a gun and not just a knife?
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Post by Reaver on May 14, 2012 6:10:43 GMT
I actually don't trust myself more with a knife than a gun, just throwing out what seems effective for this type of drill whether you have the gun or the knife. rushing someone unprepared for attack (even if they are wary) with a knife in plain view seems kind of foolish anyway, since that immediately pegs you as a threat.
It seems like a variation on the technique used to approach a wild animal would work, running at an angle that takes you close to but not directly at them and look past them rather than at them. To this just add pointing with your off hand and shouting "look out!" while concealing a knife in your dominant hand and practically any person would either turn around, presenting an easy target, or be uncertain enough of your intentions that they probably wouldn't draw and definitely wouldn't shoot (unless they'd seen the knife).
this would be progressively less effective the more aware the gunman is of you as a threat, but it might still provide an edge. Personally I think if a knifeman makes a person with a gun aware of his intentions before he's struck a blow, then he's probably made a serious mistake.
The following is just theoretical, but if you have the pistol and someone rushes you from that close of a distance, evasive maneuvers while drawing or fleeing seem to have odds almost as long as standing your ground. rushing the assailant would break his initiative as he would not be expecting aggression, and would possibly give you more time to draw without leaving yourself open to attack.
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Sam H
Member
Posts: 1,099
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Post by Sam H on May 14, 2012 20:47:20 GMT
What you just said sounds more sensible. Your other post sounded like some kid who had been playing airsoft games and thinking they're now combat vets.
Anyway while you do have a point its a lot of what my father told me regarding the training - you never know exactly how you're going to react when a situation arises. You can only hope that you trained hard and trained well so that if and when something like that happens your training will get you through it. Its not like we're trained soldiers who are purposefully putting ourselves in the way of danger... we're still just civilians who happen be trying to be prepared for what crap that might hit us.
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