Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2010 23:14:05 GMT
ineffableone, those are some really cool arts where are you finding them? Just did some image searches for pixie sword. The first one was still not so calm, but fit my mood of not so calm, the second was happier since I was happier. I went and watched the belly dance video Liam posted /index.cgi?board=forumcafe&action=display&thread=16115&page=1 in between which improved my mood greatly. ;D
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2010 0:29:09 GMT
no! we do NOT have a MORAL obligation to point out that something sells for less in someone's classified thread. if the seller had been asking MSRP or more than that then the price would have been unreasonable and worht a post of "hey this is a USED sword, right? how come you want so much?" but in this case it was not a bad price for a sword that has only been used for forms. and through normal classifieds price drops would have gone below wiwingti price soon anyway. a PM would have been the way to handle this. and even in the extreme case I mentioned of an asking price at MSRP a PM would still have been better than a public decrying. no matter how the "sorry pal" was meant is sure seemed to me as dismissive. the big issue here is this: SBG does not have or need a MORAL OBLIGATION to bargain hunt. down that road lies madness. not only is there the paranoid fantasy of how that can spin out of control socially there is also the idea that price is not the only consideration. and I KNOW (better than most) just how much good stuff comes with a Wiwingti deal but that isn't the point. crying out that we have MORAL OBLIGATION to shoot this classified add down because a seller can offer the same thing at a SLIGHTLY lower price is just wrong people. we all talk about the good deals and wehre to get them often enough that anyone who buys a katana from the classifieds without checking wiwingti and KOA's prices (at a minimum) is beyond our help. trashing a guy's classified add in the thread is NOT KOSHER! please people don't give me the "good of the community" arguement, I do not recognise that as a valid angle. perhaps moral obligation is too strong a word, but I would and would appreciate if others do mention that there a new sword that goes for less. A PM would have been a more tactful way to go about it, but then there is the possibility that the seller would simply disregard it (again, I don't know the seller in this case and am not saying this is the case, just that it could be). We are transparent here and as so I do not believe comments on any kind (as long as they are appropriate) should be stigmatized... if I go a store and I semprini about how overpriced something is (again, not this case), I'm pretty sure most store associates would do pretty much nothing, even if I were to stand next to the door and spread flyers with the address of another store that sold that same product for less... Actually, if you were to stand outside the door and publically decree that another store had the same product for less, Iam sure most stores would ask you to LEAVE, or having you carted off by the police.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2010 1:02:45 GMT
perhaps moral obligation is too strong a word, but I would and would appreciate if others do mention that there a new sword that goes for less. A PM would have been a more tactful way to go about it, but then there is the possibility that the seller would simply disregard it (again, I don't know the seller in this case and am not saying this is the case, just that it could be). We are transparent here and as so I do not believe comments on any kind (as long as they are appropriate) should be stigmatized... if I go a store and I semprini about how overpriced something is (again, not this case), I'm pretty sure most store associates would do pretty much nothing, even if I were to stand next to the door and spread flyers with the address of another store that sold that same product for less... Actually, if you were to stand outside the door and publically decree that another store had the same product for less, Iam sure most stores would ask you to LEAVE, or having you carted off by the police. not true... already done it (personal challenge from someone)
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Post by torawashi on May 6, 2010 1:25:55 GMT
I'm not going to say there wasn't a better way to phrase the post, but if I were to look for a deal in the classified section and then found out I could buy it for less from a vendor (of whom everyone thinks highly), I'd be pretty pissed off. So, in other words, not too kind, but necessary. WTF?!?! I'm really disappointed in the few of you who think this thing is ok... if you by something and then find it for less of a price later, thats on YOU for not doing your homework. In this case... of the many many vendors all over the Internet selling the sword in question... only ONE of them had this sword for a better price then the guy was asking... and that after shipping was like only 20 bucks cheaper. 20 Bucks on a sword that sells between 450 - 700 or so dollars. That is not by any stretch of the imagination a rip off! Gezzzz!!! You want to find the best price for something... LOOK! You want help, ASK. I do not like the idea that people think its OK for people to just start popping into anyones sale thread and say 'You know, Joe blow over here is selling this for 10 bucks cheaper. Buy it there.' Not to mention being dickish while they do it. C'mon people... what happened to concepts like 'personal responsibility' and 'manners' and 'tact' and such? Do you guys really think its ok to just drop into anyones sale thread and say this stuff, and rudely at that? At MOST a PM to inform the seller it could be found at ONE VENDOR for less... but to me in this case the price difference was so small that even that seems to be going out of ones way a bit. I'm a amazed and saddened to see this sort of crap. I really, REALLY don't want our classifieds to go all super strict like at SFI where you can not say a damn thing... but I WOULD prefer to see that over people busting in willy-nilly into peoples sales and being rude. ....Shadow is disappointed in us?!?.....How will we sleep tonight???
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2010 1:30:06 GMT
Another thought on the subject.
Did anyone that posted on that thread (including myself) actually intend to BUY the sword? I know I wasn't, not interested.
If not interested, why intrude? I imagine if I was trying to sell something, and someone who wasn't interested butted in and made posts that further reduced the amount of money I was going to get, I would be quite pissed off. If someone messaged me and said, "hey, would you take $50 less for it?" Well, that's bartering, but that should be private, not a public post.
In the end, unless someone was pulling a con, or unless you wanted to encourage a sale, I don't see any reason to post. It causes trouble and starts threads like these.
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Post by torawashi on May 6, 2010 1:44:40 GMT
....Methinks the horse is dead......
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Dom T.
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Post by Dom T. on May 6, 2010 1:50:47 GMT
^^^
Agreed, good sir. We've dallied enough on the subject. Onwards! To victory!....
uh .... FREEDOM!
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Post by torawashi on May 6, 2010 1:59:57 GMT
^^^ Agreed, good sir. We've dallied enough on the subject. Onwards! To victory!.... uh .... FREEDOM!Agreed!!......Onwards and sideways!!! Jim
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Post by shadowhowler on May 6, 2010 2:13:43 GMT
I don't really think the horse is dead... because there appears to still be disagreement and debate... Grey Wolf: Hardy Har Har... I don't really know you... so how I feel about you or this community may or may not matter at all to you, I don't know. Yes, I am disappointed in some of the people here and the views expressed by them on this subject... I am mostly a pretty jaded person, but I guess I allowed myself to think a bit more highly of some of our members then perhaps was merited, and now I feel let down. Because this community DOES mean a lot to me, I expressed that feeling so anyone who does give a crap will know... if the does not include you, well, I would say this subject and its mood is not the best venue for that joke you made.
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Post by torawashi on May 6, 2010 2:23:28 GMT
I don't really think the horse is dead... because there appears to still be disagreement and debate... Grey Wolf: Hardy Har Har... I don't really know you... so how I feel about you or this community may or may not matter at all to you, I don't know. Yes, I am disappointed in some of the people here and the views expressed by them on this subject... I am mostly a pretty jaded person, but I guess I allowed myself to think a bit more highly of some of our members then perhaps was merited, and now I feel let down. Because this community DOES mean a lot to me, I expressed that feeling so anyone who does give a crap will know... if the does not include you, well, I would say this subject and its mood is not the best venue for that joke you made. Shadow; This community means a lot to me too, my friend. How you feel about me means...well....not so much. As far as the humor is concerned; I see you can dish it out.....can you take it? Jim
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Post by shadowhowler on May 6, 2010 2:32:10 GMT
Shadow; This community means a lot to me too, my friend. How you feel about me means...well....not so much. As far as the humor is concerned; I see you can dish it out.....can you take it? Jim What the hell man... I am all about the jokes and the funny... in the right place and at the right time. Have I made any jokes in THIS thread? No, this is a serous discussion. I don't get you.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2010 2:47:52 GMT
WTF?!?! I'm really disappointed in the few of you who think this thing is ok... if you by something and then find it for less of a price later, thats on YOU for not doing your homework. In this case... of the many many vendors all over the Internet selling the sword in question... only ONE of them had this sword for a better price then the guy was asking... and that after shipping was like only 20 bucks cheaper. 20 Bucks on a sword that sells between 450 - 700 or so dollars. That is not by any stretch of the imagination a rip off! Gezzzz!!! You want to find the best price for something... LOOK! You want help, ASK. I do not like the idea that people think its OK for people to just start popping into anyones sale thread and say 'You know, Joe blow over here is selling this for 10 bucks cheaper. Buy it there.' Not to mention being dickish while they do it. C'mon people... what happened to concepts like 'personal responsibility' and 'manners' and 'tact' and such? Do you guys really think its ok to just drop into anyones sale thread and say this stuff, and rudely at that? At MOST a PM to inform the seller it could be found at ONE VENDOR for less... but to me in this case the price difference was so small that even that seems to be going out of ones way a bit. I'm a amazed and saddened to see this sort of crap. I really, REALLY don't want our classifieds to go all super strict like at SFI where you can not say a damn thing... but I WOULD prefer to see that over people busting in willy-nilly into peoples sales and being rude. ....Shadow is disappointed in us?!?.....How will we sleep tonight??? Sorry Wolf, but I think that joke was unnecessary and impolite.
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Post by torawashi on May 6, 2010 2:48:41 GMT
Shadow; This community means a lot to me too, my friend. How you feel about me means...well....not so much. As far as the humor is concerned; I see you can dish it out.....can you take it? Jim What the hell man... I am all about the jokes and the funny... in the right place and at the right time. Have I made any jokes in THIS thread? No, this is a serous discussion. I don't get you. Shadow; It's all good....you're not required to "get me". I fully realize this thread is intended to be serious, it's just difficult to take some of the posts seriously. I really don't feel the issue at hand is worthy of this much debate, but since this has been thrust upon me I will reply. The words "Sorry Pal" have been stated by some here to be offensive in the post. Perhaps, perhaps not, don't know. But then you posted "WTF?" and "I'm disappointed in you guys" or words to that effect. Shadow, you are certainly entitled to your opinion, but that's ALL you're entitled to. From the words in your post it seems to me that the debate won't be over until everyone sees it your way. In the words of a great Western philosopher; "Sorry Pal".....ain't gonna happen that way. Shadow; nothing would please me more than for you and I to be good friends but we're not always going to agree. As far as humor, if we can't laugh at ourselves then we are taking ourselves far too seriously. And Tom K. nothing but respect for the way you have treated me and been so courteous on this forum.....that said...."down that road lies madness"? Tom, even you have gotta be laughing at that one..... this post is written in brotherhood and with all possible respect; Jim
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Post by torawashi on May 6, 2010 2:51:08 GMT
....Shadow is disappointed in us?!?.....How will we sleep tonight??? Sorry Wolf, but I think that joke was unnecessary and impolite. Sebastian; You may very well be right, at any rate you're certainly entitled to your opinion. Jim
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2010 5:19:56 GMT
Not to throw another stick in the pile, but you cant really be dissapointed at all these people just because they disagree with you shadow. Obviously both sides have stated their opinion, and believe it or not, they BOTH hold merit. To put down the people in this thread just because they have a different opinion than you, although just as valid, is the same, if not worse as graywolf "bashing" you(which imo i saw it as a more humorous attempt). At the end of the day all im trying to say on this subject is: 1) Yes, we have established it would have been much better to PM the seller in the first place. 2) No matter how much you want to say it was rude, NONE of us know how the "Sorry Pal" was directed until the OP chimes in and tells us so. 3) Its obvious that the community here would not like to buy a sword here for price X when you can get it new a little cheaper at price Z. 4) Which brings me back to point 1, point 3 could have been handled by PM but it wasn't and the seller did end up dropping his price. Now would the seller have dropped his price if he was pm'ed? In this case he would have, but we can't say the same for all the people. So what do we do in the future? Pm the seller I suppose and if he doesnt drop the price, just pm any interested parties that before you buy from seller X maybe you should check vendor Z on the price and then barter back? I don't know, dont mind me im just rambling after too much drinking, I don't even know if im making sense at this point Just trying to say that none of us should be lowering our opinion on each other just because of this thread and how we would have handled it differently. Its just silly, kinda like saying you don't wanna be billys friend anymore because joe was selling some used pokemon cards for 10 bucks, but billy told cindy she could get the pokemon cards new for 7 dollars instead so your friend couldnt sell any cards to buy some french fries. sorry like i said i've been drinkin
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2010 6:03:59 GMT
I see many of you talking about wiwi and his prices and quite frankly I haven't seen anyone who can compete, is that a good thing? In some regards yes in others no. I don't think that we should put him on a pedestal as the sword god or whatever. Yes he has good prices and he is a good guy but honestly I see nothing wrong with selling a sword higher than it is on his site. He is not the yardstick by which all things sword related are measured. Over my years here I have seen people happily pay more because the person they are buying from has a good reputation here and knows what they are talking about, so if they say their sword is good we are inclined to take them at their word and pay the price they think they deserve, it's all fair and square. I think to undermine someone's reputation in their own sales thread is definitely rude and not in the spirit of the SBG. We all pay what we feel is correct and we all charge what we feel is correct, if someone wants to buy it for that price (a damn good price) then it is not the place of any other forum member to decide to be a "caped crusader of arse hattery" and do something as appalling as undermining someone elses sale and thereby casting aspersions on that person's character.
If I ever found out anyone did this with one of my sales I would lodge a formal complaint and I would probably leave because that is just not on.
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slav
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Post by slav on May 6, 2010 6:20:17 GMT
In general, sellers should be able to ask whatever they want for an item and it is up to the buyers to do their research and decide what they are willing to pay.
A Classifieds thread is not a place for discussion or intervention. It is simply meant for buyer/seller notifications. Even questions about the item should usually be asked via PM; although sometimes they make it onto the board.
The concerns you raise are valid, and I don't think there are concrete answers to your questions other than what I stated above. It all comes down to members' personal sense of etiquette and sensitivity.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2010 6:27:08 GMT
Well like I said its just another option out of the many. Say you didn't know any better and were looking at buying a used sword for $800. Well say someone PM the seller and say hey look man, you might not be getting much hit because this guy is selling his new one for say $600. And lets say the seller tells you to buzz off(which is one of his rights as being a seller, he can set the price at whatever he wants to) but say that you post in the thread saying your seriously interested in buying it. and someone say me knowing that it can be had for say 200 cheaper new, you really wouldn't want me to PM you and tell you that information privately?
Sure the seller may be pissed because he didnt sell his sword for 800, but at the same time I wouldn't feel right just standing by and watching someone pay $200 over for a used sword vs what they could pay for a new one, especially when the seller knows they go for 600 new vs the 800 he wants.
Im sorry im not trying to start a fight, just adding another perspective into the pot.
Btw: none of my posts are in reflection to the original seller of the original item, these are just theoretical questions. I think the OP's original price was very fair, even I didn't know WIWI sold em that low, and I think someone stated before that Hanwei did lower their prices by quite a bit earlier on some of their models.
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slav
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Post by slav on May 6, 2010 6:41:56 GMT
What is done via PM is the business of the sender and receiver. Members are free to say what they wish to whomever they wish, as long as it is in accordance with forum policy.
The bottom line is: KEEP PM's PRIVATE!!!! This way, people can speak and act as they see fit, without incurring any 'political' consequences or predicaments.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2010 6:46:59 GMT
What is done via PM is the business of the sender and receiver. Members are free to say what they wish to whomever they wish, as long as it is in accordance with forum policy. The bottom line is: KEEP PM's PRIVATE!!!! This way, people can speak and act as they see fit, without incurring any 'political' consequences or predicaments. Well Said, Im not one great with words, but this is what I was trying to get across basically
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