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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2007 0:20:43 GMT
so i went to my first SCA fighting practice on sunday after being inspired in part by what i have heard about it on this forum. thankfully i was able to borrow all the equipment i needed so it was a great time! i definately found that my biggest issue was visibility behind my shield, although i still feel sure that sword and shield is the fighting style that i want to pursue. i had the most trouble when i got in real close with another shield guy, as i would tend to raise my shield to high thus completely blocking my vision and leaving my lower left side open... i think this was a natural reaction of some sort, and something that i'll have to work against in the future... my shield arm also got pretty tired quickly, so maybe some of tsafa's softball excersises or something would be good... once i get my own shield! anyway, it was still a great time (i think i did pretty well for a first timer ) and i'll be going back next week
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Post by rammstein on Mar 27, 2007 0:39:55 GMT
Cool! I only wish that that I was old enough to partake in such activities Be that as it may, I have a summer program that lets us fight in full sca armour or padded weaponry (your choice and everyone does both) so I'm not totally out of the experience.
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Post by rammstein on Mar 27, 2007 2:21:04 GMT
david, the shield takes practice. It took me a little while to learn how to hold the shield up, but it comes in a fairly short amount of time. Simple solution to holding the shield so it blinds you - don't. rely on skill rather than "good thing it hit my shield" to black blows. By this I mean, don't cower behind your shield. Keep the shield out and away from you. Move around to block blows. Make sure the shield is probing, but still kept in a safe distance to retrieve it if possible. Even still it's a range game. There is no excuse for your opponenet getting in your face. Make sure your retreats match his adavances and you won't have to worry about blinding yourself with your shield as you try to not get hit. Better not to be there than to risk getting hit.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2007 0:02:51 GMT
David, it took the Romans an average of two years to train a newbie for battle and they were training more then once a week. So training once a week, for about 2 hours, you need to think in terms of 5 years to get competative. Don't get overwellmed or discouraged, just go to each practice and try to learn one new thing, practice that and have fun. The main thing is to armor up good so you can last the training sessions and not come out black and blue all over. People with experiance will intentionaly get you to blind yourself with your own sheild and get you you to cross your weapons so you are bound up. A lot of the basics like foot work and defensive guards have to became a matter of muscle memory, then you can concentrate the fine points of how to defeat your opponent. Muscle memory only comes from a lot of practice focusing on one aspect at a time. Drilling is a good way to bring that out. Here are some places to get cheap armor: www.ashcraftbaker.com/pricelist%20web.htm Get the biginers suit, $250 for 12 gage mild steel. This will have articulated knees, elbows, gorget, helmet, a basket hilt and a shield hilt. The get lowgrade 14 oz leather from www.springfieldleather.com/catalog/uncut_leather/tooling_leather/saddle_skirting.aspYou can get a whole cow side for $90, talk to Kevin. Yoy can follow my example that I posted in another thread on this site. You can get two rattan stikes for $16 from: icefalcon.safeshopper.com/16/cat16.htm?157Another cheep option is just to get the helmet from Ascroft/Baker $100 and the rest of the armor from: darkvictory.com/html/catalog.htmlOr if you have the time and patiance, you can do all that yourself by getting a 55 gallon carwash barrel for free and a $30 jigsaw and cutting it yourself. Remeber to pad inside the armor so you can go the distance. Another option people use is to modify hockey equipment. The helmet must still be 12 gauge SCA approved. The shineguards cover the knee so they are good. You can build that up to give you better coverage. Get baseball tights and stuff football pads down the legs to cover your upper thighs and back of leg. Get boys shinguards to cover your forearm and elbow and a hockey jacket for your torso and shoulders. This is a true martial art in every way, it will take all the commitment of any other martial art if you want to get really good. But on the lighter side, the SCA also welcomes a lot of people who fight casualy for fun, so you don't have to train to be the best if you don't want to. You can go and just play around a bit and thats all good too. Whatever level you want to be at, you will get there if you are having fun and well insulated from pain so armor up. As you get better you can shed some armor for more speed. Three years down the road you will be getting hit less and the area where you do get hit will be more predictable to you as you settle into one fighting style or another.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2007 5:00:47 GMT
good advice guys now that i think about it i really shouldn't have let myself get in so close in those cases where i blinded myself with the shield... i kept trying to pull off one of those wrap around hits, which in retrospect was a pretty bad idea since my more experience opponents knew how to block it without much trouble while at the same time taking advantage of my disorientation. i will definately work on keeping a proper distance so as to maintain control next time around (i've played lots of lacrosse, soccer, basketball, and even done a little boxing, so my footwork is pretty good and i can adapt it to fighting without too much trouble...unless there is a drastic difference between it and other sports that i am unaware of). actually i found the experience of sword and shield work to be quite similar to boxing... looking for an opening, turning the waist for strikes, maintaining a guard and blocking, constant footwork, etc... i'd also like to try and get a feel for a number of different shields so that i can find a shape and size that works well for me thanks for the links tsafa, great suggestions and the cheapest helmets i've found so far online! i'm going to wait a while though since i heard that a bunch of the guys coming to pracice have old equipment lying around i might be able to use for a while or buy. plus i've got my lax stuff which might be usefull (making my own armor sounds fun though , maybe once i've got a better feel for what is needed )
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2007 16:03:43 GMT
re: picking out what shield type to practice with.
I think it is best to use the same type of shield as most of the guys in your practice group. That way you will get specific training on that style from people who know how to use it. Later on, as you make more contacts within the SCA you can hookup with people to train you in other shield types that interest you. You won't get as good training if you are using a kite shield and everyone else is using a round one at your practice or vise versa.
As a general rule the small round sheilds are held out and try to catch the opponents weapon at it point of origin close to its hilt. This type of shield forms a defence cone that opens up backwards as it is held out. A large Roman style sheild is held in close. You have no choice, it is too heavy to extend out. Movement is minimal to the head and sides. A kite sheild is the middle ground, with one edge being held close in and the other pointed out towards your opponent. You tilt the corner up to defend your head and drop the bottom point to defend your leg.
The real problem I find with defending against top fighters is that the blows come in too fast to track with your eyes. The sword is moving too fast to see, unlike the slow motion stuff you see in the movies. You can't even see their hand. You have to look at their shoulder and guess where the sword is going. It best to stay out of their range if you can.
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Post by rammstein on Mar 30, 2007 21:57:41 GMT
and that's why good footwork is important. They can't hit you if you aren't there and, if you are fast enough, you can get them while they are recovering.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2007 0:14:03 GMT
very interesting, i can't wait till practice on sunday! i'm definately concentrating on footwork next time, being patient and protecting myself from blows. i've also got to practice both finding and creating openings to strike, which will be tough facing oponents much more experienced then me. any tips on how to catch or throw someone offguard? or combinations that will create openings?
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Post by rammstein on Mar 31, 2007 0:17:14 GMT
head - leg - head combos work well on beginners but rarely work on moderately experienced people. You could try flecheing (for lack of a better term) to the head if you see your opponent's shield is a tad low. Take a good strike at the thighs if you've gotten their shield high. Basicall, wherever their shield is is not where your sword should be. Another thing: If you get out of the way fast enough, they may throw themselves off balance and you can take advantage of that with a quick strike to an unprotected area.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2007 0:32:35 GMT
yeah i tried to work the head leg combos a bit last week, but i wasn't being patient enough with it plus was just getting accustomed to the whole thing, so i think it'l go better this time. i'm definately going to play the waiting game a bit more (everyone last week kept letting me throw the first hit, or even a few, without attacking since it was my first day). i don't think they'll do that as much this time since i showed them that i don't need to be coddled. if they do though i'll try a quick hard single strikes to try and draw a counter attack or get them out of position and open to a second strike.
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Post by rammstein on Mar 31, 2007 0:55:02 GMT
I wouldn't pull it when you're fighting experienced fighters. Just try what you can and ope it doesn't hurt too bad. And take their advice over mine. I'm not in the sca, and I've only a little expreience in sword fighting. Enough to know a bit about what works and what doesn't, but no where near the amount of experience that many people in the sca have. Talk to them and ask them for help in developing your fighting skills. They'll probably have a lot to say so sit back and listen to them because, with years of training under their belts, you'd almost certainly benifit from trying out what thy tell you.
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Post by rammstein on Mar 31, 2007 0:59:43 GMT
if you ever find yourself inside a melee (see the melees thread, very interesting!) you should be happy when they let you take the first hit. When they aren't being agressive, you should throw potshots at other members of his team. So that can be a blessing too
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2007 0:23:19 GMT
I in malees, you have to hit very hard. There is so much going on that people just don't feel blows that they normaly would. Normaly it is enough for the person just to feel the sting, but in a malee, the blow really needs to shake them down to their boots. People don't do it intentialy, just too many distractions. You nearly have to knock the person off balance. That is one of the reason a lot of people like to use polearms in malee. Funny thing with the polearm, is that you may not feel the sting as much, but you will feel yourself knocked out of step.
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Post by rammstein on Apr 1, 2007 13:22:33 GMT
I'm thinking of, when going into the sca (inevitably WILL happen when I turn 18) of training in both polearms and sword/shield. I'm interested in polearms specifically for melee purpouses because of the reach. Sword and shield would be my normal weapons though.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2007 14:08:17 GMT
I wish I knew about the SCA at 18, I would be really good now. I joined at 34, now 35. Still fun at any age. You will find that a lot of people join in there mid 30's. It is an issue of time and money. At 18 most people are worried about college, at 24 they are concerned with doing well in their career. By 28-30 they start seeing money roll in and as they move up the corp ranks they get more free time. Just don't let yourself get bogged down by marrying early and having kids. That will put a cramp in your life style. Very important that you get through college because that will increase the chances that you will have free time and money later on in life to become a swordmaster.
When you join, you will find that it is better to learn one form at a time, master that, then learn another. There is a lot of muscle memory required at the basic level and the body learns faster by concentrating on less things at once.
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Post by rammstein on Apr 1, 2007 19:24:37 GMT
I've built up a bit of muscle memory is the kid-sca type thing I've been doing. obviously, we count blows a bit softer, but other than that it's essentially the same. Armor, swords, and all. Though we will often use pvc instead of rattan. We do longsword sword/shield, rapier, archery, and armoury (maille garments and jewelry [knights chains]). Newly though, we've introduced quarterstaff thoguh it was at the end of the last session. I'll look foreward to trying it out this summer! I was one of the few people who got to experience with the first polearms, and it was pretty darn fun. Half of the fighting is armoured and the other half is padded boffers that allow for a much quicker suit up and the ability to have huge melees.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2007 22:21:04 GMT
well i'm a jackass... thanks to a late saturday night i slept through sca practice today and i was so excited for it too... parhaps its best that i didn't wake up though, as my reflexes may not have been up to par and i'm sure that throwing up inside a steel helmet is not the most pleasant of experiences oh well, there's always next week...
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2007 0:13:23 GMT
Malee Practice Scheduled for Sat, April 7 if anyone is in the NYC / Long Island area.
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Post by rammstein on May 5, 2007 0:00:28 GMT
tsafa, you'd like this:
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Post by rammstein on May 5, 2007 0:07:08 GMT
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