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Post by shadowhowler on Mar 27, 2010 11:48:31 GMT
Thats only a way to get more into their pockets, nothing really justifies it, only the fact that you know what are exactely the fees only when they knock on your door with that big shinny package on their hands... They know how to use other's weekness:) Tis lame on an epic scale. I always ship USPS when I ship to Canada.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2010 12:58:43 GMT
Still waiting on the blade I ordered... Been about two weeks since I sent the check, and I know they cashed it... They just sent out the last of the moat stuff on thursday, so no telling when yours will arrive. My wife was curious and emailed Mike yesterday. He also said they are taking a breather and getting caught up, and that there will be more stuff going into the moat next month. So far I've recieved 2 blades I ordered on separate days. One was heat treated and borderline sharp, and is etched from the rust, I just can't sand it deep enough. The other is will bend if you look at it funny and has about a .050 edge, but I was able to get it looking brand new except for a couple small spots.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2010 17:30:04 GMT
got the 4 blades I ordered $130 with shipping, 3 are heat treated, 1 is not and will bend with no effort, it is a small diamond shape blade 26" X 1 5/8" with a 6 3/4" tang, no markings just tool marks, the second came wrapped with a tag that read " AB 0005 late period spatha I blade finished", it is very clean and very sharp, except for a little rust on the tang and 1" onto the blade, with an albion mark 28" X 1 7/8" with a narrow 8" tang threaded on the end, the last 2 are rusty type XI one with an albion mark on the blade, 33 1/2" X 2 1/4" with a 6" tang, the other is a del tin type XI to XII 32 3/4" X 2" with a 24" fuller very nice taper and 7 1/2" tang, they both cleaned up rather easily with a very nice patina that I prefer, never been a fan of shiny and new, my plan is to hilt the albion XI similar to the windless ulfberht, and the del tin similar to the albion squire line type XII, this brings me to the spatha blade I am not a fan of the spatha style of sword I would prefer to make it into something else so I am looking for any thoughts or ideas on the subject, and last but not least what to do with the untempered blade? try and temper it my self? does any one know of someone who can temper it for me? thanks in advance for any and all help
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2010 4:43:19 GMT
Got my blade, today. As I feared, it is non-HT'd.
Even worse, as is, it cannot be heat-treated.
I'll try to get some pictures, tomorrow. It's the crazy looking orcish blade that was up a few weeks ago. On close inspection, the ridiculously sharp spine-spike area is actually brazed on. Unless I find a way to weld it, there's no way it can be made into a functional blade. The brass within the seam will melt to a puddle long before the steel reaches temperature.
I'm really hoping I can get this heat-treated. Although the shape is quite impractical, it makes for a neat little sword. I might pick up one of the premade Wakizashi Tsuka from Cheness and attach is with epoxy and a tension pin. Already have a Tsuba that I made years ago, just have to modify the Nakago-ana. Not a clue what I'll do about a scabbard. Might have to go leather, since this shape doesn't lend itself to wood-core very well...
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2010 12:40:59 GMT
i'm just pissed off by the fact they send it by UPS without telling me, they costed me almost as much for shipping then what they costed me. What is it with UPS and Canada? I have heard there are some CRAZY fees involved, don't quite know why. They call those extra-fees "brokerage fees": basically, you pay for shipping, then you pay for shipping, again...then you're broke...It's a racket...I hate that...so, glad to learn I'll have to pay even more for the shipping of my pommels...ah crap.
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Post by enkidu on Mar 30, 2010 14:47:31 GMT
Funny thing happened to me last eveninig. The UPS guy ( the same guy that came last week with my order ) knocked at my door. He had a box from Albion at my name. I though i was crazy, that i ordered something i didnt remember or that my order i have with them ( which is due for much later ) had arrived earlier. So i paid the horrendous fees ( 90 $ ) and bring back the box inside. I sat beside my little girl who was doing her homework and began to open the package... 9 blades in all, 7 katanas, a lady vivamus and a mild steel medieval blade... that sure wasnt my order. I check out the box once again, its my name and adress alright. So i reach for the invoice and it was made to someone with almost the same name as mine who lived at 3 hours approx from me... Good news for him, all the kats were HT and also the Vivamus, lucky guy ! 2 of the kats blades are near perfect ( they still need a bit of work ) but overall he got some really good blades.
To make a long story short i left him a message on his My Armoury account and on his home phone.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2010 16:18:40 GMT
Funny thing happened to me last eveninig. The UPS guy ( the same guy that came last week with my order ) knocked at my door. He had a box from Albion at my name. I though i was crazy, that i ordered something i didnt remember or that my order i have with them ( which is due for much later ) had arrived earlier. So i paid the horrendous fees ( 90 $ ) and bring back the box inside. I sat beside my little girl who was doing her homework and began to open the package... 9 blades in all, 7 katanas, a lady vivamus and a mild steel medieval blade... that sure wasnt my order. I check out the box once again, its my name and adress alright. So i reach for the invoice and it was made to someone with almost the same name as mine who lived at 3 hours approx from me... Good news for him, all the kats were HT and also the Vivamus, lucky guy ! 2 of the kats blades are near perfect ( they still need a bit of work ) but overall he got some really good blades. To make a long story short i left him a message on his My Armoury account and on his home phone. very fortunate for him that the package came to the home of a sword enthusiast, that understands how he feels. had it fell into the hands of most folks, he would be really bummed out. bravo for you being a decent dude.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2010 16:57:11 GMT
Well, looks like my trade with Deamonskull fell through. The blade he had sent was incredibly thick which made it appear to have a HT if you only did a cursory test. That being said, the only blade that was heat treated is this one: It's got some mild pitting near the guard and some staining near the tip. If anyone here would like to trade a HT'ed blade for a HT'ed blade, PM me. If no one is interested in a trade, I'll probably shave down the tip and get rid of the waves near the guard to make it more ordinary looking. If you need more detailed pics, I'd be happy to PM them. Edit: This blade is currently being negotiated in a trade, so I can not trade it to anyone else at the moment.
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Post by stromloswordsusa on Mar 30, 2010 19:28:23 GMT
THERE ARE MORE MOAT BLADES ON THERE RIGHT NOW
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Post by ShooterMike on Mar 30, 2010 20:39:17 GMT
THERE ARE MORE MOAT BLADES ON THERE RIGHT NOW WOOHOO! Just snatched up 4 pommels for $100. Three wheels and a Brazilnut.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2010 22:01:14 GMT
I'll go against the grain here and say I'd recommend that people do not buy these for project blades: You can get a brand-new heat-treated Tinker blade for $80-$100 that will be able to be returned if it is defective from KoA. It's unknown what you will get with the Albion blades - as most of them are not heat-treated, and those that have been heat-treated have a high percentage of cracks or other damage. Common sense dictates that this is the route to go. I have gotten 10 emails from people asking stuff like; "Hey Odin, know any good heat-treating facilities?" or "Hey Odin, can I spot weld a crack on a blade spine?" or "Hey Odin, would it be okay to hilt an unheat treated blade for demonstration purposes only?" No, no, and no. My advice is: Buy a heat-treated blade for your project. Do not make the mistake of buying 10 of these and hoping for a good one; you'll waste 50% the cost of a new Albion Squire doing it this way and still have a blade that failed Albion QC for some reason. I say spend less money by buying a good blade right off the bat; but that is just my take on it.
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Post by shadowhowler on Mar 31, 2010 3:12:20 GMT
Funny thing happened to me last eveninig. The UPS guy ( the same guy that came last week with my order ) knocked at my door. He had a box from Albion at my name. I though i was crazy, that i ordered something i didnt remember or that my order i have with them ( which is due for much later ) had arrived earlier. So i paid the horrendous fees ( 90 $ ) and bring back the box inside. I sat beside my little girl who was doing her homework and began to open the package... 9 blades in all, 7 katanas, a lady vivamus and a mild steel medieval blade... that sure wasnt my order. I check out the box once again, its my name and adress alright. So i reach for the invoice and it was made to someone with almost the same name as mine who lived at 3 hours approx from me... Good news for him, all the kats were HT and also the Vivamus, lucky guy ! 2 of the kats blades are near perfect ( they still need a bit of work ) but overall he got some really good blades. To make a long story short i left him a message on his My Armoury account and on his home phone. You are a good man, thw world needs more like you. + 1 sir.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2010 5:19:02 GMT
I agree with Odin for the most part. "Woot cheap sword blades" turned into "ugh crap what do I do now" for a bunch of people. These blades all have defects of some kind. I got the last of mine tonight, and 3 of the 4 were heat treated.
One, (a wide type X) is sharp at the end, mostly polished under the rust, heat treated (I bent it nearly in half without a set) and has a tip grind/fuller termination that wouldn't pass Windlass QC. (okay it probably would) I'll clean it up and file the tip to shape and mount it eventually.
Two, a heavy XVI, lot's of black on it, fuller goes out of bounds in one spot, heat treated, unsharpened edge.
Three, a XVIIIb, 37" blade, 12" tang, sharp, heat treated, has a couple of small nicks near the tip and the whole thing is bowed slightly.
Four, type XV, hollow ground, heavy, not heat treated. I can't find any defect in this blade. The grind is even, the spine is dead straight all the way out. I will eventually get it heat treated. (no blow torches, I promise)
These aren't good blades for a weekend warrior project. I'd second the Hanwei recommendation for that. They aren't bad blades. The difference is that while a once rusted blade will never reach the level of finish a new hanwei has, a new hanwei will never have 0 surface wobble and perfectly executed blade geometry. Both are likely to have a booboo here and there, and the moat blades are a lot more work. I like to wrench on these things so that's good for me.
There was a tutorial someone posted a while back.. I can't seem to get the search function to work tonight. There was a tute on how to check your blade for hairline cracks, I'll look some more. Everyone thinking about mounting one of these blades should use it.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2010 7:53:27 GMT
Well, hines sight, 20/20 and all that.
Looking back now, I would have probably just skipped the moat sale and let the people who have access to forges and what not buy up the stock, with one exception. I'm glad I did get a Lady Vivamus and one day she will be a whole sword.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2010 12:07:46 GMT
I'll go against the grain here and say I'd recommend that people do not buy these for project blades: You can get a brand-new heat-treated Tinker blade for $80-$100 that will be able to be returned if it is defective from KoA. It's unknown what you will get with the Albion blades - as most of them are not heat-treated, and those that have been heat-treated have a high percentage of cracks or other damage. Common sense dictates that this is the route to go. I have gotten 10 emails from people asking stuff like; "Hey Odin, know any good heat-treating facilities?" or "Hey Odin, can I spot weld a crack on a blade spine?" or "Hey Odin, would it be okay to hilt an unheat treated blade for demonstration purposes only?" No, no, and no. My advice is: Buy a heat-treated blade for your project. Do not make the mistake of buying 10 of these and hoping for a good one; you'll waste 50% the cost of a new Albion Squire doing it this way and still have a blade that failed Albion QC for some reason. I say spend less money by buying a good blade right off the bat; but that is just my take on it. This is exactly why y'all have not seen a post from me about these. As much as I would love to get my hands on some Albion blades and start rediscovering my metal working skills (over a decade in mechanical work I kinda know what I'm doing). I know I don't have the money, workspace, or the specialized tools to work on a project like these. I think that's the case for a lot of folks. We need to be aware of we we are getting ourselves into.
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Post by ShooterMike on Mar 31, 2010 21:39:04 GMT
Yep, agreement from me too. I would rather pay more for a known-high-quality blade. But as far as pommels and guards go, if you have access to drilling/milling, grinding and finishing equipment I think these are a good deal at $25 each. I would certainly not try to make them for that price.
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Post by stromloswordsusa on Mar 31, 2010 22:04:06 GMT
I think that the MOAT sale has been really positive for the community.
It's got most of us "buy from the box store" people thinking about making something good with our own two hands, about sword construction, and about what ideal sword I would create. Sure reality is that all this is already out there, but it got some good imagination going. Surely if even some people get going the forum will soon show an increase in first timer blade making and exchange of knowledge as we go.
I know I spent a long time studying yeoldgaffers site looking at grip and scabbard making (but not for the first time) again. And now I know where the Tandy store is too.
It's also let many of us know what goes into making a good blade, how to pick bad blades etc and how time consuming this can be - ie to value the product a little more.
Cheers,
Rob
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Post by brotherbanzai on Apr 1, 2010 13:15:01 GMT
Certainly the moat sale wasn't for everybody. My suspicion is that, if you bought a blade on the first day, you had a good chance of getting a hardened and tempered blade. After the first day sold out in a matter of minutes, they then started putting up more and more iffy stuff based on the fact that people were still snatching it up. People were buying stuff that was clearly bent, broken, or marked as cracked in the pictures.
If you can assemble a sword from separate pieces and make a grip, but no more than that, it was definitely a gamble. For those of us do-it-yourselfers that have the ability to harden, temper, and finish a blade, it was a boon. Given the low picture quality and the low prices, I found a good strategy was to buy in bunches as I searched for long-sword (and other cool specialty)blades. I ended up with a little pile of finished Deltin blades, a little pile of one handers needing heat treat, a little pile of unusable 1018 "blades", a little pile of very cool unhardened and unfinished specialty blades, and a little pile of exceptionally nice long swords.
For the blades than need heat treat, again bunches is the key. I've heat treated a little pile of the ones I got and a couple that were almost fully ground but unhardened (I guess they were testing shapes?) failed the heat treat as they sabered a bit. The larger portion hardened nicely.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2010 13:18:48 GMT
Anyone willing to trade a lady vivamus blade in any condition, we might be able to work out a trade to HT one or more of your other blades.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2010 16:15:34 GMT
Am I the only one seeing the weird irony about some of the complaints? I mean, thirty bucks for Pete's sake.
Even a way-off, non-heat-treated blade is probably worth thirty bucks. I've paid that for a machete or scythe blade or whatnot that I had an idea to try but wasn't sure it'd work. I've paid that for a SLO or wallhanger just to see if it can be cut down and actually made into a useful weapon.
If nothing else you can cut part of these down and turn it into a spearhead or knife. Or try to heat treat it to see if you can pull it off--even if you've never done it before. Again, if it fails, shrug and cut it down. My God, if nothing else, raw stock to run an experiment and have fun at these prices? Thank God the Mythbusters guys don't balk at such costs or there'd never have been a show.
And sure, these are pieces that didn't pass QC at Albion--that's why they're THIRTY BUCKS!
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