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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2010 5:14:08 GMT
I used to want a katana. As I have studied swords the past several months I have been disallusioned with Japanese swords. I came across this video yesterday. It is sort of becoming my point of view on on the katana as well.
What do you guys think?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2010 5:16:46 GMT
Don't get me wrong. I think the katana is a very effective weapon but not better than many other types of swords.
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Post by randomnobody on Jan 20, 2010 5:40:51 GMT
You know, it's funny, I'd sworn we'd already had a thread by this same title about the same video...but the nearest I can find in a search is this thread: /index.cgi?board=otherweapons&action=display&thread=13619
I'm not sure where the other(s) went?
The consensus was something like he went overboard in actually dismissing the katana as a whole, rather than simply the myths about them.
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Post by shadowhowler on Jan 20, 2010 5:43:00 GMT
The consensus was something like he went overboard in actually dismissing the katana as a whole, rather than simply the myths about them. Agreed. I can't stand the hollywood/anime hype around the Katana... but I find the views expresed in the video to be too far in the other direction as well. The Katana, like all swords of history, has its strong points and weak points.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2010 5:43:38 GMT
well, the katana is probably the most over rated sword, but alot of that's due to all of the ridiculous crap we've been told about them for so long. that doesn't, however, mean it's not great at what it does.
are there better swords? yup. objectively and subjectively, unless you're a devout budophile, that's probably clear.
but since it's highly unlikely your life will ever depend on a blade, swing whatever gives you the shivers.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2010 5:44:29 GMT
Here's an article that you might be interested in that was written by Mr. Hank Reinhardt: www.thearma.org/essays/nobest.htmThe katana is for the most part a highly hyped form of sword that has been popularized by anime and fantasies. The reason for it having a more spiritual and deep appeal to the majority of the masses than say European swords is because Japan was still using medieval type weapons up until the later part of the 19th century. That isn't to say the katana is not an amazing and interesting weapon or a great work of art. It just cannot cut through gun barrels and such like the tales state.
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Post by randomnobody on Jan 20, 2010 5:48:25 GMT
I dunno, some old Viking swords, as the fellow in the video casually waved off, have been far more overrated than any katana.
Bear in mind, also, the majority of the "hype" here does not come from the Japanese; they just haven't bothered debunking it themselves. They'd like you to think they've got something better than yours, just like anybody. On the other hand, the hooplah over most Euro swords come from...well, the very culture the swords originally came from. The Vikings got trashed on their favorite local herbs and spit out nonsense about how wicked awesome their sword was, and everybody told everybody else, now these stories are legends.
It's the same old concept of lack of knowledge and understanding leading to overestimation, for lack of a better word. Like how people are terrified of snakes because a few of them can actually cause some nasty damage to a full-grown human. But the little green garter out back? The 8-inch long one? Hell, pick it up, play with it; it's harmless.
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Post by shadowhowler on Jan 20, 2010 6:05:39 GMT
The Vikings got trashed on their favorite local herbs and spit out nonsense about how wicked awesome their sword was, and everybody told everybody else, now these stories are legends. Heh Heh... awesome!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2010 6:31:00 GMT
You know, it's funny, I'd sworn we'd already had a thread by this same title about the same video...but the nearest I can find in a search is this thread: /index.cgi?board=otherweapons&action=display&thread=13619 I'm not sure where the other(s) went? The consensus was something like he went overboard in actually dismissing the katana as a whole, rather than simply the myths about them. I read a little bit of his post. Comical. a katana snaping a claymore?! lol
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Insane
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Post by Insane on Jan 20, 2010 7:04:02 GMT
Maybe the katana is overhyped.
But the way the japanese made it a part of there culture, the way it looks and handles and the way it's made makes it a special sword.
Especially the hard steel wrapped around the softer gives it some unique features.
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Post by randomnobody on Jan 20, 2010 7:24:29 GMT
Psst, Insane, none of that is limited to only the Japanese sword. Ssshh, don't tell the others, 'kay? No, seriously, as the fellow in the video said, the Vikings, Celts, etc. had been doing it centuries before the Japanese; the Chinese, even, are the ones credited with taking these technologies TO the Japanese. Not to mention the Arabic swords and those of the "middle east" and so on; I mean, come on, DAMASCUS? India, I think, was pretty sword-central once...and may still be. I seem to recall a particularly elaborate ceremonial and/or religious sword of theirs that was just incredible...
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2010 7:42:12 GMT
To expand on what randomnobody stated, swords in Europe often played a very important role especially during the Migration and Viking Ages. Many swords that belonged to well known historical or fictional figures such as Charlemagne, Beowulf, Arthur, etc had names and were said to have magical properties.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2010 9:31:44 GMT
And then we figured out how to make steel more and more reliably and produced them industrially M.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2010 9:54:46 GMT
All swords have a bit of hype behind them the japanese just had a better agent. In all seriousness, its very unlikely that any of us will ever use a sword for what it is made for so part of the reason for owning a sword IS the "hype" surrounding it. In your other thread "why do you own a sword" there is a reason many people speak of the books they've read and the romanticism surrounding them. There is very little practical reason to own a sword. I dont think that many of us have a sword because we thought it might be handy in a home defense situation, or even that it would make recycling easier. There are better and more practical things for that. No, we own and use swords for more personal reasons. All swords have myths and legends surrounding them, thats part of why we like them. I think that all swords are overrated and I will be damn sure I do my part to see it stays that way.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2010 11:50:30 GMT
This guy is a moron, he obviously hates katana so there is a LOT of bias there. Its especially evident when he mentions several times "well, Europe was doing that first."Which may be true, but i couldn't escape the vision of a 7yr. old saying "neener neener neener! "I'm sorry, but whoever (or wherever) this guy got his "facts" from about the history & development of the Japanese sword they got a lot of stuff wrong. In this case, he is blending together his very misinformed ideas about the history of the katana with the BS fairytale/Hollywood malarkey of movies & legends. Most of which are perpetuated by people who are unfamiliar or uneducated with the Japanese sword. So no, the katana cannot cut through a tank. It is not magical Just like Attila the Hun did not possess the sword of a Roman God, Nor did Arthur ever really pulled Excalibur from a stone, The katana is a sword like any other sword, it is special to those of us who appreciate them and their history. Just like any other enthusiast... How could anybody take this moron seriously? "A katana is a sharpened iron bar with a handle on the end made for hitting people, get used to it."Yeah, that pretty much sums it up...! This guy really knows his stuff! I wonder if we said that about a European sword what mister moron's reaction would be? [Spelling]
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2010 13:08:04 GMT
This guy is a moron, he obviously hates katana so there is a LOT of bias there. Its especially evident when he mentions several times "well, Europe was doing that first."Which may be true, but i couldn't escape the vision of a 7yr. old saying "neener neener neener! "I'm sorry, but whoever (or wherever) this guy got his "facts" from about the history & development of the Japanese sword they got a lot of stuff wrong. In this case, he is blending together his very misinformed ideas about the history of the katana with the BS fairytale/Hollywood malarkey of movies & legends. Most of which are perpetuated by people who are unfamiliar or uneducated with the Japanese sword. So no, the katana cannot cut through a tank. It is not magical Just like Attila the Hun did not possess the sword of a Roman God, Nor did Arthur ever really pulled Excalibur from a stone, The katana is a sword like any other sword, it is special to those of us who appreciate them and their history. Just like any other enthusiast... How could anybody take this moron seriously? "A katana is a sharpened iron bar with a handle on the end made for hitting people, get used to it."Yeah, that pretty much sums it up...! This guy really knows his stuff! I wonder if we said that about a European sword what mister moron's reaction would be? [Spelling]To be fair, that was a comedic video that was bending the stick to make a point. Some facts were wrong. Some were right. Some were disputable. But to tell you the truth, saying any sword is a sharpened iron bar designed for hitting people is.... the truth, really. But in the same way a gun is a piece of metal designed to kill people or a bow is a bent stick meant to kill people. An oversimplification, but you can tell he was making a point as I said. And he'd clearly shelled out enough to have a not-bad quality katana himself.... SO I dunno- I don't think he has an undue bias against the katana, he is simply overstating and oversimplifying for teh lulz.
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Post by Brendan Olszowy on Jan 20, 2010 13:29:42 GMT
I like that the views so far have been very balance, zen like. Yep - every type of sword has benefits and drawbacks. Like all things in life. I can understand one becoming jaded with the commonplace myths surrounding anything one knows better about.
Industry types who use the myths in their marketing are probably the most annoying. Is honesty dead?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2010 13:50:19 GMT
To be fair, that was a comedic video that was bending the stick to make a point. I thought my opinion was very fair, but i would wouldn't i... Just like i am sure that gentleman thinks his opinion/assessments are fair. To be truthful, i found no humor in it whatsoever. So if it is an attempt at comedy, it is not a very good one. An oversimplification, but you can tell he was making a point as I said. Excellent, So we have gone from "overhyped" - to - "oversimplified", are we making progress? I honestly can't tell at this point. And he'd clearly shelled out enough to have a not-bad quality katana himself.... Really, how can we tell that from the video? Who knows if it is even his? And if it is, who knows how much he "shelled out" on it?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2010 16:18:21 GMT
You know, it's funny, I'd sworn we'd already had a thread by this same title about the same video...but the nearest I can find in a search is this thread: /index.cgi?board=otherweapons&action=display&thread=13619 I'm not sure where the other(s) went? The consensus was something like he went overboard in actually dismissing the katana as a whole, rather than simply the myths about them. Indeed there was and we did. This guy makes valid points, but comes off to biased in the other direction. I think the point he should of hit on, is that it's just a sword like all others. It's got it's own design, purposes, and pros and cons, like all swords. But much of the story and myth and hype of katanas, probably comes more from the men who used them, and stories that spread about them and their feats.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2010 16:37:28 GMT
Industry types who use the myths in their marketing are probably the most annoying. Is honesty dead? No, it is not dead, but it sure takes a hell of a beating every now and then.
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