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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2009 14:58:28 GMT
I see people mention this thing alot, whether its fake or real, etc.
Problem is, "Same" is an english word, so when I type in "Same katana" on google, I get everything but what I am looking for.
What is this thing?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2009 15:20:07 GMT
"Same" is referring to "Samegawa" - which (i think translates directly as) "Skin of the giant ray".
Its usually the belly skin of stingrays that is found between the actual wooden core & the outer wrap of the handle.
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SlayerofDarkness
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Post by SlayerofDarkness on Dec 8, 2009 15:22:14 GMT
^-What he said. ;D Also, just to clarify, 'same' is actually a Japanese word, if I am correct.  That's probably why it wouldn't come up with a definition when searching English. -Slayer |
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Post by Tom K. (ianflaer) on Dec 8, 2009 15:41:36 GMT
as I understand it, traditionally it can be shark skin also. I thought the translation leaned more towards shark even though sting ray is what is used now days. not sure what part of my memory this is creaping out of so I might be way wrong.
samegawa is a good searchable term.
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Post by Kilted Cossack on Dec 8, 2009 16:06:49 GMT
Slayer:
I think he meant that there is also an English word which is spelled "same." It doesn't mean the same thing as the Japanese word, nor is it pronounced the (ahem) same, but since the transliterated Japanese word uses the (ahem ahem) same spelling as the English word . . . .
Umm, never mind.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2009 16:52:52 GMT
Actually samegawa I believe is a bastardised possibly anglicised take on the word samekawa which literally translates to shark skin. An interesting fact is that whilst all these western inspired or chinese inspired japanese swords claim to have high grade samegawa, in terms of grading they are actually quite low grade. Some of the attributes that determine grading are the consistency of nodes and the overall size of the skin itself. Which leads me to believe that the skin of something like a manta ray or a great white would rate very highly in terms of grade.  The picture above is an example of the second lowest grading of rayskin according to one of the Japanese companese that specialise in it. You look at that and then you look at the rayskin on most of our swords and you realise just how truly inferior the quality of our samegawa is. Hope that helps  |
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Post by Dan Davis on Dec 8, 2009 18:06:23 GMT
Nope, samegawa is correct since the word is a conjunction: same-gawa is composed of two words: same (shark) and kawa (leather). The spelling and pronunciation changes when the words are conjoined, just as ko (short) and katana (sword) becomes ko-gatana when conjoined.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2009 18:25:28 GMT
one other thing we forgot to mention is that the pronunciation of the japanese word "Same" is something along the lines of Sah-Meh, and not the english pronunciation which is a different meaning word altogether.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2009 21:52:15 GMT
So same and same don't mean the same thing even though they're spelled the same, though they aren't pronounced the same, and same means the same as samegawa which is the same as same kawa. But that's pretty much the same thing that everyone else as said about same and same.
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SlayerofDarkness
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Post by SlayerofDarkness on Dec 8, 2009 22:38:47 GMT
^- ROTFLOL! +1, well earned, my witty friend.  ;D -Slayer |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2009 22:45:17 GMT
So same and same don't mean the same thing even though they're spelled the same, though they aren't pronounced the same, and same means the same as samegawa which is the same as same kawa. But that's pretty much the same thing that everyone else as said about same and same. +1 for making my somewhat annoying friend's head explode |
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Post by Brendan Olszowy on Dec 8, 2009 23:42:39 GMT
The other thing to note is that most chinese replicas use small narrow pannels which barely fill the width of the openings on the ito wrap. It's really just cosmetic and whether it's real or plastic doesn't make any difference other than cosmetic, since they haven't done it properly to begin with. It should be a full wrap, which is done wet so that when it dries it shrinks and compresses the tsuka enhancing fit and durability.
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Post by sparky on Dec 9, 2009 0:08:42 GMT
The other thing to note is that most chinese replicas use small narrow pannels which barely fill the width of the openings on the ito wrap. It's really just cosmetic and whether it's real or plastic doesn't make any difference other than cosmetic, since they haven't done it properly to begin with. It should be a full wrap, which is done wet so that when it dries it shrinks and compresses the tsuka enhancing fit and durability. Thank you for answering the question that I didn't ask! I was wondering about that. |
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Post by randomnobody on Dec 9, 2009 0:35:33 GMT
Brendan's note has stirred a thought in me...it's a shame he doesn't use animal parts in his swords, a great many would look incredible with some good same... I don't think the plastic imitation stuff would do them justice. Bren, anything else you can think of that would lend a similar effect? |
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Post by Brendan Olszowy on Dec 9, 2009 1:20:35 GMT
Yeah I do use leather. I try to avoid it when a beautiful piece of wood will do better. It's mainly the medieval swords that need leather. Ancient style swords look better with wood.
It grosses me out but I figure it's just recycle/reuse for all the animals you guys eat. Even then I get most of my leather from the offcuts bin.
I wouldn't use shark as I am appalled at the way sharks are treated around the world, and would never support that. Probably wouldn't want to use ray either as I'd rather they were left in the water too.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2009 1:35:17 GMT
I'm with Bren, if it didn't come standard I would be happier without it, hell I'd be happier not eating or using animal products but if I don't eat meat I get depressed and die.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2009 1:41:36 GMT
So same and same don't mean the same thing even though they're spelled the same, though they aren't pronounced the same, and same means the same as samegawa which is the same as same kawa. But that's pretty much the same thing that everyone else as said about same and same. "Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo." That is, Bison hailing from Buffalo, that other Bison from buffalo intimidate, also happen to intimidate Bison from Buffalo. ;D ;D |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2009 1:45:34 GMT
"Same" is referring to "Samegawa" - which (i think translates directly as) "Skin of the giant ray". Its usually the belly skin of stingrays that is found between the actual wooden core & the outer wrap of the handle. Quick note. The samegawa is from the back of the fish as opposed to the belly. |
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Post by Brendan Olszowy on Dec 9, 2009 1:48:29 GMT
...if I don't eat meat I die. You don't know that for a fact, it has never been tested ;D |
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Post by randomnobody on Dec 9, 2009 1:53:44 GMT
If I don't eat meat, I don't eat. If I don't eat, I'll not be long for this world. Meat is just too good for me to exclude from my diet.  Vegetables, though, I can totally do without. On the note of same/rayskin/whatever, I have a ray skin wallet that I quite like. Beats the crap out of the leather one I'd had for years prior, though for some reason the back side has become discolored, and the large, white nodes (which are now a light brown...) are peeling. Standard wear? |
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That's probably why it wouldn't come up with a definition when searching English.
Vegetables, though, I can totally do without. 
