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Post by sparky on Dec 6, 2009 1:07:53 GMT
I have to agree with Slayer on this one. Those other ones look kinda over priced, I could be wrong but.... The Cold Steel one looks like more bang for your buck!
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SlayerofDarkness
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Post by SlayerofDarkness on Dec 6, 2009 4:14:22 GMT
Oh, and sorry for the cryptic reference to a $30 pricepoint. The OSS is listed at $80ish, and is worth every cent, but I found it somewhere for $30 awhile back... if you're interested, shoot me a PM and I'll dig up the link. ;D HTH, Slayer
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2009 4:17:21 GMT
OSS?
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SlayerofDarkness
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Post by SlayerofDarkness on Dec 6, 2009 4:21:23 GMT
A Cold Steel knife, mate. Not to be confused with your freakishly awesome fighters from hell (the SAS), I'm afraid. ;D It sure would be nice to be able to buy one of them for $30, though... ;D -Slayer
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2009 4:22:40 GMT
What freakishly awesome fighters? I'm currently working on one that have all the elements of a killing boomerang, throwing axe yet you can still fight with it Sorry for the hi-jack
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2009 5:21:23 GMT
ive heard of those woodsmen pals taking off and ear with that hook when chopping
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SlayerofDarkness
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Post by SlayerofDarkness on Dec 6, 2009 5:27:06 GMT
Oop, sorry, BW. Got confused between the OSS and SAS. All these appreviations...! Post edited to conceal my error. -Slayer
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2009 6:04:08 GMT
Um... niether? I've never heard of that brand/store, but both of those look kind of like junk to me, although I may be completely off base.The Vanguard linked is a product of Buck Knives and of the same steel used by the venerable Buck 110 folding hunter for a couple of generations now. Still a good buy in the base blade steel. I'm surprised not to see someone squealing that it is a 420 stainless. I am not familiar with the other product but the blade steel and other components are probably why the price is so high. the Camillus/Western boot daggers are probably still lingering out on the market and a decent moderately priced short fixed blade. Cold Steel as well but it sounds like a "want it in hand to choose" sale. Maybe a gift certificate or cash and suggestion is the way to go. There have been some decent man/girl vs canine tips but range at all costs can be pretty well provided unless you don't see them coming. Some have prepared for up to bear level and short blades Attachments:
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2009 8:44:10 GMT
I agree with others that a stick is good because it may keep the animal not too close. If the animal is close enough for you to hit it with a knife it might also be close enough to bite. If I would need a knife for self defense it would be a big puukko, that is a Scandinavian or Northern European type of knife. Because I am not afraid of wolves or such I just carry a small one to help me making fire or some other non-violent task. If a finn carries a knife it is almost always puukko. To carry a puukko you need no reason, its just so traditional and natural. If you carry some other type of knife in Finland people might wonder why you carry a weapon and are you perhaps a dangerous person
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Post by YlliwCir on Dec 6, 2009 9:44:22 GMT
ive heard of those woodsmen pals taking off and ear with that hook when chopping Funny you should mention that, Cole. When I was just a lad in the boy scouts (I know, but I was young and hadn't gone bad yet) we were camping out and a kid was using one of those to chop wood or the like. He came back too far over his shoulder and put a good size rip in his upper back. Took quite a few stitches. I can't look at one of those things without thinking of that.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2009 12:53:33 GMT
The Cold Steel one looks like more bang for your buck! I dunno about that, man. To me, the OSS seemed to be cheaply made; somewhat unremarkable in the hand. It has a thin, lightweight blade and a one-piece flimsy injected polymer grip, subhilt, and guard. I broke the tip off and pulled blade free of the guard during a field exercise one summer when the tang broke under the guard. I don't have a high opinion of the kraton-gripped CS knifes, because quite frankly, they tear up under moderate daily use in my experience. It's based on the CS Black Bear Classic, but they kind of missed the mark, because it's nothing like it's big brother. Now, The Black Bear Classic is the real subhilt fighter, with steel cross, subhilt, and beefy full tang. It also has a thicker hollow-ground blade and riveted black micarta scales. I've had my BBC for about 6 years now, and it's a work of art. Of course, it has a beefier price tag too, around $300 or so. If my price limit was $30 (and I could not get the larger mil-spec Woodsman's Pal); I'd get the Cold Steel shovel or one of their machetes. Either would make a better weapon against a dog over a knife, even one as nice as the CS BBC.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2009 14:22:31 GMT
I would suggest a reasonable sized swamp rat or busse.
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Post by ShooterMike on Dec 6, 2009 16:10:27 GMT
I'm a fan of the old Kabar fighting knife. The USMC Kabar. They have a proven track record for reliability, going back to 1941! I'm pretty familiar with coyotes. I've killed 40-50 and lost one dog to them. $600 vet bill for another dog. I see them almost weekly. There are three packs that each number 5-8 adults within 2 miles of my house as I type this. It's always funny to see the reaction when some city-dweller is outside my house after dark, and a police/fire/ambulance vehicle drives near with siren blaring. You won't hear the siren for all the yapping and howling coming from at least three directions. Last time I saw one that was up to mischief was about 15 hours ago. They are scavenger/hunters. They will attack dogs, as dogs are a competitor, and any small animals. But to attack something the size of a person has to be the result of rabies or over-familiarity removing the natural fear they have of humans. This happens when coyotes come into contact with people too often with no unpleasant consequences. That's definitely not a problem here. I've seen them attack and it probably isn't what you would expect. They will work in concert when attacking prey. They fidget constantly, never stopping and never really offering a straight-on attack. Sevaral will move about on the front end to distract the prey with snarls and yaps while the others circle the flanks. Then when one gets an open angle on the rear it will rush in and bite down on the back of the leg and start shaking violently to throw the victim off balance. Then the others pounce all at once. It gets pretty gruesome after that. Your best weapon is an aggressive attitude and an attack-oriented mindset. And the thing that will help give you that attitude is a weapon(s) that you have confidence in. Since they are mostly scavangers and are predators of opportunity, they only preying on victims they see as weaker or mostly equal but well outnumbered and alone. That's what happened to my two dogs. The one that was out alone was killed. The other was injured in a stand-up fight as there were two dogs against 3-4 coyotes. Heh, heh, heh... That's the price my big dog paid for his little brother trying to "romance the local wildlife" so to speak (female coyote in heat). If it comes to it, the best defense for a person would be to get an obstacle at your back. Then give one a good poke or whack with a stout club of some kind. A knife would come into play only when they already had hold of you, since they mostly maintain 3-5 feet of distance until one grabs you from behind. You might be able to seriously wound two or three of them and they might back off. Pretty iffy... In any case, the prospects for not being injured are slim if you aren't adequately armed, and are actually attacked by a pack.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2009 16:41:25 GMT
That had me rolling, ShooterMike. But he's right. A knife may help you keep yourself alive by a hair, but if the pack is in knife range, I don't like your chances. Unless you have one of these: But i doubt clever roadrunners or tall cliffs with strange gravitational behavior are plentiful where she's hiking. Hope this is all moot and she never has to face off against Wile E.'s more savage cousins.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2009 17:35:14 GMT
I am not a knife expert (or an expert on anything for that matter) but I have found the SOG knives to be of excellent quality, as is the Ka-Bar. This would be my choice in a hand to mouth combat situation with a coyote: sogknives.com/store/fixed.htmlThat said, I like the idea of the air horn, which may scare them off so that hopefully she wouldn't need the knife. This has been a real eye opener as to the behavior of coyotes. (Thanks ShooterMike) We just bought 40 acres out in the wilderness of Eastern Washington and apparently have quite a few coyotes there, as well as bear, cougar and wolf. So far the coyotes have run away when confronted, but we are prepared for the time when they don't. I hope you find a knife your sister likes, and that she never needs to use it, these critters sound pretty dangerous.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2009 18:42:33 GMT
Another possability is one of the larger Mag Flashlights. they are pretty heavy and can really do a number on a person if you hit them with it. I imagine it would do the same to a coyote. Also, if the coyote is rabid they will be photosensative and light might help scare them off.
I'm not sure about weapons law in Canada but are telescoping metal rods legal? Those things are easy to carry and are capable of damage plus they would give you some range.
Either a big Mag lite or Telescoping metal rod backed up with a knife might be a good answer.
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Post by YlliwCir on Dec 6, 2009 19:31:46 GMT
There is always this proven pack deterrent.
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SlayerofDarkness
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Post by SlayerofDarkness on Dec 6, 2009 19:46:29 GMT
Ricwilly for the WIN! lol... Odingaard- when did you get your former OSS? I ask just because I've heard good things about it, and CS does seem to improve their models over time... I don't know, but I was very surprised to hear your experiences with them. Thanks, Slayer
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2009 23:13:27 GMT
We live in GA and take our dogs for a walk to a polo field over by the chatahoochi river maybe 2 or 3 miles from serious residential areas.The coyote population is growing as such that I take a knife with me when the wife and I take the dogs walking there with us,but I wouldnt ever go for a walk in the woods without a knife pocket or larger. I'm not really worried about my dogs considering ones a pitbull and the other two are Irish Wolfhounds and weigh 148lbs and 192lbs and their always together . There are a ton of knives out there I know as I have been looking for one to send my nephew in Afghanistan whos in the US army,hard choice to pick one. As for your sister try looking at the custom stuff from Scorpion blades,I like this one traditionalarcherybows.com/My_Homepage_Files/Page10.htmlI know everyone has their opinion on a favorite knife but find what you like and dont let price sway you to much,protection is worth far more than sale prices.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2009 23:37:48 GMT
Ricwilly for the WIN! lol... Odingaard- when did you get your former OSS? I ask just because I've heard good things about it, and CS does seem to improve their models over time... I don't know, but I was very surprised to hear your experiences with them. Thanks, Slayer Probably 2007ish. But, this product line has not really changed since its onset, its their entry-level budget line - stainless steel blades set into kraton polymer handles (in the picture below, you can see that the guard and subhilt are plastic...ish). Alot of the awesome stuff you hear about these base model knives are planted by Cold Steel marketing reps/distributors; even the YouTube videos and such. Of course these are only going advertise and show how phenominal it is, that is how they get your money. For $30; I'd much rather have a Cold Steel machete or spade in the same price range as a primary survival tool that could serve in a secondary role as a weapon (if I could not have my Woodsman's Pal). But to each their own...
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